CONTE's proposal to Pound: more testing on top athletes.

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by poulidor, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. poulidor

    poulidor New Member

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  2. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

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    Conte's suggestions are so obvious, it leads me to believe that WADA is definitely not interested in 100% removal of drug cheats. It is somewhat cynical and Flyer-like, but if the next Olympics contained no drug-cheats, viewers would quickly get bored with performances well below world record level. The top athletes are being molly-coddled by the sports organizations who are basically employed by the top event sponsors and endorsers of athletes.

    More out-of-competition testing for the top 20 athletes. DUHHHH!!!!! These guys (WADA and the like) it seems want to create the illusion of diligent testing, so that the Michael Johnson's of this world can nearly trip over just after the start of the Olympic 200m final, and go on to beat the world record by 4.5 metres (0.4 secs). That's 4.5 metres folks - or nearly 15 feet faster than the fastest guy previously in the history of the world (and the previous record was set with the help of altitude). What a load of crap.

    There needs to be an independent investigation of these corrupt organizations IMO. Money has bastardized sport from administrators to athletes. If Pound has procrastinated on talking to Conte for this long, that tells me they don't want to hear what he has to say, and what they already know in any case. And Dickie-Wickie's imminent departure ensures he and WADA won't have to do anything about the suggestions.
     
  3. snood

    snood New Member

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    The national agencies and UCI do out of competition testing. They have reason to protect athletes.
     
  4. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

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    The national agencies and UCI have to do some out-of-competition testing (let's call it OOCT). To not do any would just look really bad.

    The OOCT is sporadic, not that targeted, and not to the extent Conte is prescribing (his suggestions are "more" and "targeted" out of competition testing - ie higher frequency and focused on the top athletes). And you can miss two of them, which he wants reduced to one. His recommendations are to WADA, not the UCI.

    Let's face it, one of the major obstacles is funding, even if it is taxed from the likes of ASO. Why pay exorbitant costs for round the world testing of athletes on say a monthly basis, when all you are doing is ensuring clean races. Why not pay less, and just create the illusion of clean races. This has been an ongoing strategy so far.
     
  5. Gregers

    Gregers New Member

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    Cranky, I am with you vis Johnson. I don't know if you see much of him in your part of the World but he is a regular talking head on the BBC and in our broadsheets. In many ways he cuts quite an impressive figure but here's the part that you'll love-he projects himself as an extreme, hardline, anti-drugs campaigner. What a hoot. On occasions he's been so vociferous on the subject that he's even had me going-until I rapidly pull myself together and wonder what on earth was I thinking!
     
  6. snood

    snood New Member

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    That is funny. Johnsons good friend Jeremy Wariner uses Johnsons coach-Clyde Hart. Someday he will break Johnsons 400 metre record. Johnson will celebrate.
     
  7. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    So Johnson doped??

    I'm not an athletics person - but from what I know Johnson could run at world class level in the 100m, 200m and 400m distances.
    He was world class.

    Does that mean he doped?
    I don't know.

    Athletics is as dirty as cycling.
    I think Radcliffe is clean though.

    I used to love watch Ed Moses run - poetry.
    Sublime.
     
  8. Gregers

    Gregers New Member

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    Young Jeremy is ahead of Johnson at the same age and will break indeed break his record sooner rather than later. To give him credit, Johnson seems genuinely pleased at the prospect of his protege surpassing him.
    For anybody that feels that they have been fooled by Johnson I would concede that he does sound very plausible. These guys often are. I was comprehensively fooled by a friend and fellow athlete many years ago and he went on to become one of 'the' most notorious dopers. It was this episode that opened my eyes to what really goes on and I suppose it made me a cynic. Of course, there has been plenty of justification subsequently to justify such an essentially negative viewpoint.


     
  9. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

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    I think the stance is genuine, but mainly as a way of personally reconciling his own guilt IMO. Just like evangelist leaders (Ted Haggerty) who are raving homosexuals who preach verdantly against gays. And pedophilic, homosexual Catholic priests.

    In a similar psychosis, it wouldn't surprise me if Lemond is working against doping in cycling to alleviate his own guilt and help create public (and self) perception that he was a clean and moral athlete. When you feel bad about what you've done, the only way to alleviate guilt is to try to make amends in a positive way. Of course many view Lemond's comments as damaging to cycling, but they are the same people who think that we should fudge dope-testing so nobody gets caught and sullies the sport's reputation.

    But whether Lemond was clean or dirty is irrelevant to solving this problem going forward. Same with Michael Johnson. Though a thinking person IMO, with current knowledge from Balco etc. and the realization that it is easy to get around in-competition testing (unless you're as dumb as his name-sake Ben), would summise that his unbelievable performances were as natural as Marion Jones'.

    I noticed I made a slight error in that Johnson beat Pietro Mennea's previous world record of 19.72 secs (set in 1979!) at the 1996 Olympic trials, lowering it to 19.66 secs. Then he smashed his own record again in the Olympic final (19.32 secs). I have sprinted track myself and I was doing cartwheels in the living room after that race I had so much adrenalin. It was a superhuman performance (that in hindsight looks dope-boosted unfortunately) and probably the greatest since Bob Beaman's long jump in Mexico City in 1968. Here it is with Spanish commentary:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj9RnxtKrPc&feature=related
     
  10. Gregers

    Gregers New Member

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    Don't forget that Mennea's record was anything but soft. After being good enough to set a sea level WR, Mennea went to the same track at altitude where Lee Evans had set his long standing 400m best. Mennea's stupendous effort-for its era-was set under highly favourable conditions with a supposed very marginal wind reading. And...The Arrow of the South was always reputed to be the beneficiary of CONI's very relaxed attitude at the time to Peds. It was ever thus!
    For Lim. You don't know the half of it when it comes to athletics. Not quite as dirty as cycling but not quite Corinthian either. Africans are very sophisticated these days. And don't get me started on the Rugby. There are dark deeds going on there as well.:eek:
     
  11. doctorSpoc

    doctorSpoc New Member

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    As for Johnson doping... speaking loudly against doping is not evidence of someone not doping... look at Carl Lewis, he was very vocal about drug use, but we know today that his drug use was covered up by the USOC.

    also Lim... Johnson was not a top rung, world class 100m guy... he'd have been a very mediocre 100m runner at the highest level. in track you are either a 100-200m guy or a 200-400 guy there are no 100-200-400 guys at the top level anyway one of those races you are going to be mediocre in.
     
  12. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

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    I think he was the first world class 200m-400m guy in the history of athletics/track and field, wasn't he? Was there another olympic athlete who ran these two races? I know they had to specifically change the 100 year old Olympic schedule to accomodate him.

    As far as I'm concerned, the fact he was able to run the 200 and 400 so well is further proof of drugs. IMO he was able to pharmaceutically delay the lactic acid build-up that normally kills the sprinters (100 and 200 runners) in the 400m.

    Re. Carl Lewis...I didn't know any evidence had come out implicating him. But it seems obvious that all these guys running for the Santa Monica track team were not all together in one place just so they could hang-out at the coffee shop and chat.
     
  13. thunder

    thunder New Member

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    if you also read about Armstrong and his manager Bill Stapleton, they talked about apotheosis, and winning an Olympic gold.

    The sports management guys knew just how valuable performing well was in Atlanta.

    The would have all been peaking (yeah, everyone also peaks once every 4 years, but this in a different context of "peaking") with clauses in their contract, not for dope free, or failing a test, but for world records and gold medals.
     
  14. thunder

    thunder New Member

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    actually, there are 2 athletes now, that might make Olympic finals in all 3 with the same training program, if the actual competition program allowed, and the work load was not too great.

    Usain Bolt is one. The other is the US 200 metre runner who had an injury this year and missed worlds. Forget his name. About a few months younger than Bolt.

    Both are about 21/22. Their pb 100/200/400 times in decathlon points, cumulated, are not far off Johnsons, even at this stage, and accounting for MJ wr in 200/400.
     
  15. poulidor

    poulidor New Member

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    If I remember it correctly, it's around 100 positive tests which where pushed under the rug by US federations. Some of these athletes obtained gold medals few month after, Carl Lewis was one of them, for him 3 AAF!
     
  16. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    In fairness, Johnsons 100m wasn't as strong as 200/400m : he says that 100m was too short a distance for him to get in to his stride and that he wasn't quick enough to get in to his stride within 100m distance.
    Whereas 200/400m suited him and his ability to get in to the race.


    MJ does a lot of commentary for the BBC.
    I'd bet I'd beat him climbing Ventoux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Armstrong died in the r/race at Atlanta : I remember that race well : Pascal Richard winning from Sciandri and Gianetti.

    Actually the Atlanta Games TT was a great race : BigMig won that TT - America had never heard of him!
    Indurain beat Boardman : Samaranch himself insisted on presenting the gold medal to BigMig.

    Ironic that only three weeks earlier Ullrich won the TDF TT with a stupendous win beating BigMig in to second place by 50 seconds at St Emilion.
    Ullrich decided to skip Atlanta 96.
     
  18. Gregers

    Gregers New Member

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    There have been quite a few who have been World class in 200/400 but until Johnson the Olympic schedule prevented them from doubling up and gaining wider recognition. Henry Carr got a 200m Gold at Tokyo and was World class at the longer distance. He was quickly followed by Tommy Smith who set World Records at both events. 400m Gold medallist, Lee Evans, was a good enough 200 m runner to be part of a WR relay quartet at that distance.
    For the Women it has been even more common. Irene Szewinska held WR's at 100/200/400 and the current (drug fuelled) records for 2/400m are still held by Marita Koch. There have been many others-for the US Valerie Briskoe-Hooks and the gloriously named Chandra Cheeseborough got various medals at both and Kathy Cooke still hold all 3 sprint records for GB.
     
  19. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Did Pietro Mennea not attempt the 200/400 combo at the Olympics (1980)?
    Maybe it was 100/200m combo??
    Of course, Wells won 100m at Moscow.
     
  20. Crankyfeet

    Crankyfeet New Member

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    Where I was in the early nineties, we couldn't get telecasts of the GT's. What was your impression of Big Mig, Lim? He was regarded like a superman where I was at the time. Unbelievable Heart/lung/VO2 max numbers. Did he have a good team around him? Or did he have to do most of the climbing work himself? How did he fair in the team TT usually? His Banesto team-mates would have struggled to keep up in the TTT no doubt, and they wouldn't have been able to afford him doing most of the dragging.

    How come it took him six years to do better than tenth in the TdF and then he was unbeatable it seemed? I respect the fact that he won the Giro in 92 and 93?? as well as the TdF. Don't see that happening today.
     
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