Conti 4000s (ver. 1) or Vittoria Open Corsa?

[Volnix]

Hi!

I am thinking of finally changing the Specialized Espoir 700x25 wire tires that were stock on the Allez and after lots of searching on line and trolling in the forum I narrowed it down to these two:

1. The Continental 4000s (the first all black version as the newer colored second version is not yet available in the online vendor I am thinking of getting them from). 23's.

These cost around 50euro in the LBSs but I found them for about 26 euro online. Including shipping they come up at around 30euro per tire.

2. The Vittoria Open Corsa, either the SC or the CX, which can also be used in the rain. (Vittoria says the slick "SL" ones are not suitable for use in the rain.) Again 23's.

These are a bit more expensive, at around 32 euro per tire, about 35 including shipping.

The bike at the moment with two bottle cages and Shimano 105 pedals is around 10.3 kg. The espoir ones are around 370grams each so with these tires which are around 200grams each the bike is finally gonna be under 10kg!

(Yes I know, 7kg would be even nicer but...

)


Any opinions which one of these tires is gonna be best for just frequent rides? I dont race, I just try to reduce some personal records on Strava because I am just that bored.

I am not after every single second of speed, so I dont care for TT specific tires, but I woudn't mind a faster tire that doesnt slip and can handle around 5000km of use.

What are cotton tires? (The Vittoria ones say they are "cotton" tires...)

The roads around here have lots and lots of small stones which I am frequently removing from the current tires. Will these two be Ok with that or are they gonna get shredded after 1000km?


Thanks!

 

[danfoz]

Two of my favorite tires, ever.

Over the last few years pretty much the only tires I have ridden are the CX's and CG's, and the 4000's and 4-seasons.

The CX's feel glorious, nice supple ride, grip well, cut VERY easily and tread is pretty much gone after 7-800 miles. That said I've ran a pair with latex inner tubes and didn't get a flat before the tire had died. You will need to check the tire for embedded pieces of glass CONSTANTLY. The newer 320tpi version is apparently less prone to flats than the 290tpi version. I once flatted by mile 200 on a pair of 290tpi CG's (w/butyl innertube), a tougher tire than the CX, but sometimes it's just a **** shoot anyway.

The 4000s w/black chili... nice long wearing, fast rolling, relatively nice riding tire. You'll should get a couple thousand miles at least. I rode my last pair down to the markers without a flat, again on latex inner tubes, and I don't believe I found a single piece of embedded glass or a single cut throughout the life of the tire. I'm amazed at how much nicer the new tires feel in comparison to the old Conti GP's, I remember those feeling a bit "dead" when I tried them several years ago and going back to the CX's. After riding on the recent gen Conti's, both the 4000s and the 4-seasons, I gotta say they make a quality product.

The colored version of the 4000's do not have the black chili compound which is what supposedly improves the grip, the roll, and the wear.

 

[Volnix]

Fanks.

Looks like the conti's sound like a better tire for that use...

Quote:
Originally Posted by danfoz .
The colored version of the 4000's do not have the black chili compound which is what supposedly improves the grip, the roll, and the wear.


Not the simple GP4000, the GP4000s v.2. They have a black chili middle and colored sidewalls:

The color stripe doesnt matter much, but it was written somewhere thath the "later" GP4000s were kinda "faster" which would mean that they changed the tire at somepoint during production. So the latest GP4000s v.2 should be the fastest or something... Still didnt find them in any shop though. In continentals website I think they have identical PSI, Thread count etc as the GP4000s v.1.

I was also checking some of the Schwalbe tires and it was written that the colored versions are somehow "worst" then the all black ones... It was also written somewhere that these "color" stripes dont bond that well with the black compound and also that some tires (I think Vittoria) were using "more technical" color compounds that eliminate this problem etc...

Continental GP4000s v.2 from Continental's website:

http://www.conti-online.com/www/bicycle_de_en/10_racetyres/Grand_Prix_4000_S_II.html

 

[danfoz]

I'm still trying to figure out what the diff. is between the 4000s v1 and the 4000s v2.

The older 4000"s" (v1) was also just as good, and as for the older "regular" GP4000 with it's assortment of colors, the black tire had the black chili while the colored versions did not. Maybe the main diff is now if you want one of the pretty colors you can now get chili in your tire. It seems as long as your chili is black and your breaker is Vectran, the tire should roll fast.

The other benefit of the "v2" is that the 4000s is now a few years old and rubber does have a shelf life. And the v2 is a 2014 issue, so you can be sure you are getting a recent product. Tires can last pretty long, but if looking at expensive race tires the consumer should probably want the best between themselves and the road. I seem to remember the BRMA recommending unused/unmounted tires should not be used if they are over 6 years old or something like that (that was for car tires). So now if someone is looking to get that cheap pair of Conti4000's off eBay, they can speculate on the age of the tire based on the version. Of course if wondering about the tires on that $20 ten year old bike at the stoop sale, which is probably going to be ridden like a ten year old bike sold at a stoop sale, if they look good they probably are.

 

[Volnix]

Originally Posted by danfoz
Maybe the main diff is now if you want one of the pretty colors you can now get chili in your tire.

Yep, thats the main difference, the colored ones are also 10grams heavier.

From Continentals website:

http://www.conti-online.com/www/bicycle_de_en/10_racetyres/Grand_Prix_4000_S_II.html

• A proven tyre with a facelift, new colours, new design, tried and tested technology • New sizes in 23-571, 20-622 and for poor conditions, 28-622


What's really weird is the price diffences between vendors. 50 euro each from the LBS and 27 euro each from the online vendor is kinda steep...

http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k290/a4826/grand-prix-4000-s-23-622-mm-black.html

Continental GP4000s v.2:



GP4000s v.1:

yre ETRTO dimension color weight rec. inflation, psi max. inflation, psi 4000s 23-622 700x23C black foldable 205 110 120 25-622 700x25C black foldable 230 110 120

 

[cyclightning]

The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX is one of the lowest rolling resistance tyres around. I just picked up a pair myself, but I would use training tyres like Michelin Lithium or something equivalent from Continental, cheaper and not so expensive to replace if you shred the tyres. A good heavy tyre is even better when you're riding on gravel used on bike paths and roads during the winter/early spring.

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by cyclightning
The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX is one of the lowest rolling resistance tyres around. I just picked up a pair myself, but I would use training tyres like Michelin Lithium or something equivalent from Continental, cheaper and not so expensive to replace if you shred the tyres. A good heavy tyre is even better when you're riding on gravel used on bike paths and roads during the winter/early spring.

Agree. The CX and GP4000 are really opposite extremes in terms of durability. The CX has great ride and grip, low rolling resistance, but the rubber is more like a thin band of tape applied over the casing. I recall the box said something like "these are high-performance race tires, avoid gravel, etc....". If you can manage to avoid cuts and punctures, the rear is going to wear quickly. Believe my CX on the rear lasted about 1300 miles.....vs about 4000 miles on the GP4000.

It was fun to try them just to experience the different feel of ultra-thin, supple and sticky tires. But since I have to buy my own tires, I'll stick with the 4000s...much better compromise for me.

 

[Volnix]

That seems to be the case... Everybody, from in-shop reviews to forums, says that the Open Corsa ones are kinda "faster" and "nicer" but wear out pretty quick.

Maybe they would be better suited for occasional use in events.

There are some tougher open corsa's but these are more of a "winter tire" of some short like the Conti 4 seasons ones. Not available in 23 either...

The Open Corsa SR is only available in 24mm (not that it matters so much actually) and the Open Pave is only available in 25mm and 27mm.

Maybe the 24mm Open Corsa SR's are closer to the conti GP4000's but they are 250grams each, about 45 grams heavier then the GP4000's but I just read somewhere that the actual weight on the GP4000's is actually around 215grams...

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by dhk2

Agree. The CX and GP4000 are really opposite extremes in terms of durability. The CX has great ride and grip, low rolling resistance, but the rubber is more like a thin band of tape applied over the casing. I recall the box said something like "these are high-performance race tires, avoid gravel, etc....". If you can manage to avoid cuts and punctures, the rear is going to wear quickly. Believe my CX on the rear lasted about 1300 miles.....vs about 4000 miles on the GP4000.

It was fun to try them just to experience the different feel of ultra-thin, supple and sticky tires. But since I have to buy my own tires, I'll stick with the 4000s...much better compromise for me.

Avoid gravel. That does it for me, I like gravel too much. But not on Clement Criterium Setas.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

All the fast tires wear quickly. If I get 1200 miles out of a rear tire of any brand, I feel blessed.

I like Vittoria tires. I've used them on and off for decades, both clinchers and sew-ups. They have always been of good quality and given me great grip and decent wear. They do seem to cut down as good or bad as anything else. I was NEVER a fan of Conti tubulars and I had consistent quality issues with them. No clue how their wired-on tire are. Oh yeah, their clinchers rode like bricks. Stiff. Poor road feel.

That said, in a fast tire that has shown me great cut resistance and overall good wear characteristics while rolling and gripping well, the Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comp is my pick. A close second, and rolling maybe slightly faster is the Michelin Pro 4 Service Course (much improved in wear and cut-resistance over the Pro 3 model).

As always: Your mileage may vary.

Literally.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB

I like Vittoria tires. I've used them on and off for decades, both clinchers and sew-ups. They have always been of good quality and given me great grip and decent wear. They do seem to cut down as good or bad as anything else. I was NEVER a fan of Conti tubulars and I had consistent quality issues with them. No clue how their wired-on tire are. Oh yeah, their clinchers rode like bricks. Stiff. Poor road feel.

In another life when I rode tubbies (it was recent enough that CX's were a popular choice for a "fast" tire, but not so long ago that the Clement setas were all the rage) the CX's were my tire of choice, but at $85-90 a pop they weren't cheap. I got a good enough bulk deal on a bunch of Conti Sprinter 250's (anybody remember those) from some guy in Texas that I had enough rubber to last for ages. I think it came out to $45/tire or something like that, definitely way better than the $120 asking price for the Conti Comps. They rode pretty nice, mounted pretty straight, didn't flat too much, and lasted fairly long. When I switched to clinchers I tried a pair of Cont's and thought exactly the same, rode like a brick. It was more recently that I tried their 4000's, and as that gal in the Virginia Slims ad sez... you've come along way baby.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I had better luck with the $12 'Clement' 290 gram trainers from Yellow Jersey than I did with Sprinter 250's. Sprinters cut and punctured sitting still in the parking lots, the base tape wouldn't stay down and the batches I got were dry-rotted ten minutes after inflating...cracked sidewalls we tried re-coating with Nashbar's latex goo.

In addition to the Sprinters, we got some team freebie 250 gram Conti race tires. I preferred to use my trust CX/CG's. More grip.

 

[danfoz]

Those Sprinters did cut easy. I probably spent more time picking out small chunks of glass than a first grader spends picking his nose. I got lucky with the flats though, but sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to a tire puncturing. I remember flatting on a smoothish road 10 miles in on a new set of CG's.

 

[Volnix]

Just got the latest incarnation of the GP4000S and...

 

[531Aussie]

Is anyone else surprised that the 4000Sseses keep performing well on rolling resistance tests?
To me, they just feel like a 'nice' training tyre, and nowhere near as fast as Vittoria Evos.

The only time I race on one is when I ride to a race, and I'll put one on the rear to slightly reduce my chances of getting a puncture on the way to the course.

 

[Volnix]

I had a little slip on the front wheel with them when it just started to rain yesterday...

I dont race, so they make sense to me.

The Vittorias are also about 20 euro more and the roads here are just terrible...

I'm gonna try another local club I think, I havent had a group ride in a year... Hopefully I wont get dropped too soon...

 

[Volnix]

Btw...