Continental 4000S blows

[Peter@vecchios]

Are the GP4000 the same tires as the 4000S?

GP 4000'S' are new for 2008 and have the Conti called 'black chili' in thew tread they say reduces rolling resistence(we'kk see). Both have the same bead, body, casing, etc. I doubt durability will be different between either model. I think the gent OP and others are talking about GP4000.

 

[bing181]

yes

i thonk the op meant GP4000s (as in plural)

Not sure, but I definitely meant GP4000s .. the GP4000 is another tyre altogether, and not nearly as wonderful as the 4000s's are. Easy to tell the difference, GP4000s is only available in black.

B

 

[dhk2]

I've been getting 2500-3000 miles on rear with the GP4000. Zero cuts through the tread in 16K miles, but did have to throw out one with a sidewall cut. This is better service than the old ProRace gave me, but perhaps the ProRace2 is more resistant to cuts and longer wearing.

Agree race tires are going to be more prone to cuts and wearout quicker than the general-purpose tires from the same makers, but in return you should get better ride and grip and lower rolling resistance. We all "need" the fastest tire out there

 

[artemidorus]

We all "need" the fastest tire out there

Agreed. I'm guilty of commuting on deep-section wheels.

 

[dhk2]

Agreed. I'm guilty of commuting on deep-section wheels.

Speaking of fast tires, the OP said he'd had good luck with the Vittoria Open Corso EVOs. I've seen that RR test report, done by a European mag if I recall, that said they were about the fastest things out there (at least on steel rollers in a lab). Been wanting to try them, but figured I'd flat on the first ride, and wear them out in a month.

That ranking of RR showed significant differences in RR performance between the popular race tires, and projecting a difference greater than 1 mph @ 20+ mph based on the power required in the lab tests. It also made a case for latex tubes as a "significant" energy saver, maybe good for a couple of tenths of a mph, which is a lot compared to some of the stuff people here talk about.

Going 1 mph faster for no more work sounds like something I'd sure like to do on my big century challenge in the spring. Might be worth an expensive investment in tires and ultra-thin latex tubes just for a special event, providing the setup could actually go 100 miles without flatting

 

[artemidorus]

I had a latex tube that blew out through a small gash in the tyre, and even when not punctured they go completely flat pretty damn fast.

 

[bicyclerubber]

I suspect that there are people that have had problems with pretty much every brand / model of tyre out there somewhere.

FWIW I used some GP4000S tyres on a bike late last year and they were no trouble - not noticeably better than the GP4000 imo but nice enough.

Looking forward to the Pro Race 3 which should hit the shops in March - if you are a Pro Race 2 fan, snap up some bargains between now and then.

Currently riding the Challenge Elite on a road bike - which are handmade in a similar way to Veloflex. They are very fast and responsive and look smashig but I don't think they will last much over 4,000 km on the back.

Cheers

 

[bing181]

My understanding is that the latex tubes are more, not less, resistant to puncturing, as they're more flexible. I ran them for a while, the only shortcoming I experienced was that you have to pump them up before every ride.

i don't know about Open Corsa's. All i've ever heard is that they were less puncture-resistant. If we're still on GP4000s's, they would appear to be all that the Open Corsa's are and more.

There was a huge tyre shooutout in a French bike mag a year or so back, and all these tyres were tested. I've lent my copy to a friend so can't check, but for all-round the GP4000s's came out in front of the Open Corsa's.

 

[alienator]

My understanding is that the latex tubes are more, not less, resistant to puncturing, as they're more flexible. I ran them for a while, the only shortcoming I experienced was that you have to pump them up before every ride.

i don't know about Open Corsa's. All i've ever heard is that they were less puncture-resistant. If we're still on GP4000s's, they would appear to be all that the Open Corsa's are and more.

There was a huge tyre shooutout in a French bike mag a year or so back, and all these tyres were tested. I've lent my copy to a friend so can't check, but for all-round the GP4000s's came out in front of the Open Corsa's.

Short of Tuffy's or summat, there's no puncture resistance to be found in a tube, be it latex or butyl.

Magazine test reviews are funny things--literally--and their results almost never reflect any objective analysis. I don't even think they're worth a grain of salt.

 

[catlike]

Magazine test reviews are funny things--literally--and their results almost never reflect any objective analysis. I don't even think they're worth a grain of salt.

Have You actually rode those GP4000S (not 4000's), before say that they suck?

 

[alienator]

Have You actually rode those GP4000S (not 4000's), before say that they suck?

Well, Cupcake, I wasn't talking about ride, now was I, eh? I talked about their lackluster flat protection, as seen through my own experience, and the way the tires shed threads from the sidewalls. The black Chili compound won't change any of that, Cuppers.

Did you actually read my posts before typing your response?

 

[catlike]

Well, Cupcake, I wasn't talking about ride, now was I, eh? I talked about their lackluster flat protection, as seen through my own experience, and the way the tires shed threads from the sidewalls. The black Chili compound won't change any of that, Cuppers.

Did you actually read my posts before typing your response?

Yes i red your post. I have not any sidewall problem with this tire yet, and actually did not find sidewall somehow extra thin. About the tread issue- in what period of time it becomes actuall? I mean I ride about 3500 km per season. I should change the tires in 2 years anyway.

 

[bing181]

Magazine test reviews are funny things--literally--and their results almost never reflect any objective analysis. I don't even think they're worth a grain of salt.

Unless you read the reviews in question, difficult to see how you're qualified to venture that (subjective) opinion.

The tests that I'm referring to consisted of a series of lab tests for grip (dry plus wet), and for rolling resistance, together with an evaluation of given properties (weight, materials, TPI etc. etc.)

Finally, re tubes, difficult to accept that different kinds of tube materials don't have an impact on puncture resistance.

B

 

[alienator]

Unless you read the reviews in question, difficult to see how you're qualified to venture that (subjective) opinion.

The tests that I'm referring to consisted of a series of lab tests for grip (dry plus wet), and for rolling resistance, together with an evaluation of given properties (weight, materials, TPI etc. etc.)

Well, Francis, post a link, so that all of us can see the fine experimental method that those magazines used. I'm doubly interested to see what an "evaluation" consisted of. Still, you apparently had difficulty reading my posts: from my experience, GP4000 puncture resistance is non-existent or at least no better than any other mediocre tire. The Black Chili tread compound won't change that, unless you know of some miracle by which it might.

Did I ever talk about grip? No. Did I ever talk about rolling resistance? No. Did I mention weight, thread count, or, in your words, "materials?" No. Again, you seem to be projecting a lot onto what I said.

Finally, re tubes, difficult to accept that different kinds of tube materials don't have an impact on puncture resistance.

Well, for a long time it was difficult for people to accept that the world wasn't flat, that light isn't moderated by some aether, and that men actually landed on the moon. There is zero evidence that latex tubes are less more puncture resistant. Your supposition, that latex must be more puncture resistant, because it's more "flexible" makes no sense. What then, do you suppose about how the latex thickness, which is at least an order of magnitude thinner than the typical butyl tube, does for its alleged puncture resistance. Exactly how puncture resistant do you think thin membranes under high tension are in general? How about those whacky puncture resistant balloons, eh? Why, they're under less pressure than latex tubes are.

I'm waiting for a technical explanation that actually makes sense.

 

[alienator]

Yes i red your post. I have not any sidewall problem with this tire yet, and actually did not find sidewall somehow extra thin. About the tread issue- in what period of time it becomes actuall? I mean I ride about 3500 km per season. I should change the tires in 2 years anyway.

3 flats and one sliced sidewall in under 1000 miles. That is by far the worst record of any tire I've used here in the desert. That list includes Michelin Axial Carbons, Michelin Carbons, Michelin Krylions, Maxxis Hors Categorie, Schwalbe Ultremos, Tufo tubulars, Vittoria EVO Corsa tubulars of various sorts, Conti Sprinter Gatorskin tubulars, and a few others I've forgotten.

 

[tfstrum]

Thread has turned interesting...

I'm on the newer 4000S. I went by the LBS last night and was told the rep would probably replace the tire. Probably sell it to a friend.

 

[alienator]

Thread has turned interesting...

I'm on the newer 4000S. I went by the LBS last night and was told the rep would probably replace the tire. Probably sell it to a friend.

Conti can make good tires, although it seems their consistency and/or execution is variable, at best. More often than not, bikes I've seen with Conti GP4000s on 'em have had thread from the sidewalls wrapped around forks, brakes, stays....

I'm interested to see how the Sprinter Gatorskin tubie I'm using holds up. It went on fairly well, although there was the seeminly typical Conti bump at the valve stem. It is round, which isn't always a characteristic of Conti tubies.

 

[catlike]

3 flats and one sliced sidewall in under 1000 miles. That is by far the worst record of any tire I've used here in the desert. That list includes Michelin Axial Carbons, Michelin Carbons, Michelin Krylions, Maxxis Hors Categorie, Schwalbe Ultremos, Tufo tubulars, Vittoria EVO Corsa tubulars of various sorts, Conti Sprinter Gatorskin tubulars, and a few others I've forgotten.

If the gp4000 is so bad, why it is so popular then? A you saying that a crowd of people admitting this tire is more puncture resistant than most of others "race" tires lie? Whay? Looks like you just had a bud luck with those GP. By the way Michelins you mentioned (not sure about Tufo) are training tires, so it is not correct to compare them with GP4000 or 4000S.

 

[alienator]

If the gp4000 is so bad, why it is so popular then? A you saying that a crowd of people admitting this tire is more puncture resistant than most of others "race" tires lie? Whay? Looks like you just had a bud luck with those GP. By the way Michelins you mentioned (not sure about Tufo) are training tires, so it is not correct to compare them with GP4000 or 4000S.

Francine, it's okay if you really like your GP4000s. You should note, however, that I did recount my experience. I did not recount any lab testing or empirical studies (You should be able to google "empirical" to find out what that means.). As for why the GP4000 is so popular, **** if I know. Why did George Bush get elected a second, let along a first, time? Why do people drive gas hogs? Why is American Idol a popular show? The idea that the approval of a large group of people means that something is empirically the best or better is stupid on its face and follows no known logic whatsoever.

As for whether the Michelins are training tires or not, who gives a ****? I was recounting my experience with the various tires I've used in the desert. Did I make some overt statement about training tires vs. racing tires? Eh?

Try reading better. Well, at least try to read above a fifth grade level, eh?

 

[catlike]

Francine, it's okay if you really like your GP4000s. You should note, however, that I did recount my experience. I did not recount any lab testing or empirical studies (You should be able to google "empirical" to find out what that means.). As for why the GP4000 is so popular, **** if I know. Why did George Bush get elected a second, let along a first, time? Why do people drive gas hogs? Why is American Idol a popular show? The idea that the approval of a large group of people means that something is empirically the best or better is stupid on its face and follows no known logic whatsoever.

As for whether the Michelins are training tires or not, who gives a ****? I was recounting my experience with the various tires I've used in the desert. Did I make some overt statement about training tires vs. racing tires? Eh?

Try reading better. Well, at least try to read above a fifth grade level, eh?

As i am not an american, it is hard for me to understand why you (americans) vote for Bush.
I did not say that GP4000 is better than other tires because it is popular. I sed that in general popular tires shoud not, as you say suck.
I should not google "empirical" - i know what it means. However, as english is not my native tongue, eaven not my first foreign language, i admit that i can improve reading english (not sure what those levels mean). And i really dont understand all those Francine, Cupcake etc.
Relax- you read better than i do.