Convert 1994 bora to 9/10/11

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by ressbautista, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. ressbautista

    ressbautista New Member

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    I am looking to purchase a 1994 Campagnolo Bora 650c for my wife. The wheels are in great shape and price is good. How best to upgrade it to 9-10-11? My wife is currently running Athena on her old De Rosa. Would appreciate help.
     
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  2. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    You may-or-may-not be able to replace the 8-speed Campagnolo Bora''s Freehub body with the Freehub body from a 9-/10-/11-speed MIRAGE rear hub where the latter uses a steel axle rather than an alloy-or-titanium axle whose diameter I think may be different on the more expensive, post-2001 Campagnolo rear hubs ...

    By my observation, the 9-/10-/11-speed Mirage hub was based on the 8-speed Record hub (sans oil hole).

    A major caveat which you need to know is that the pawls are not securely attached to the Freehub ....

    So, when you slide the Freehubs off of their respective axles, they may be prone to falling onto whatever surface is below the hub (e.g., the floor!) ... so, consider working above a "box" of some sort ....

    Because the pawls are essentially loose, I finally determined (after MANY unsuccessful attempts) that the only way by which I could successfully slide the Freehub back onto the axle wss to lash the pawls down with a couple of wraps of dental floss which were removed as soon as I managed to engage the pawls inside the hub's saw-toothed-ring and before pushing the Freehub all the onto the hub.
    NO GUARANTEES that the Mirage Freehub can be successfully transplanted!
    Of course, a new hub is your other (more expensive) option -- you can always lace a 16h (?) rim onto a 32h hub of your choice.
     
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  3. ressbautista

    ressbautista New Member

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    Thank you for the tips. If I find a Mirage hub, I'll ask a good wrench for help.
     
  4. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FYI ...
    Well, what a difference a few years make ...
    Because, the last time I looked on eBay for a Mirage rear hub (it must have been 5+ years ago), they were both legion and (in retrospect) they didn't seem too expensive (<$40).​
    I don't have an 8-speed Campagnolo Freehub handy, but I think that you can sleeve a Shimano Cassette on it with just a very simple re-notching to match the splines on the Campagnolo 8-speed Freehub body and thereby make the 8-speed Campagnolo BORA wheel good-to-go with the least cost and effort ...
    And, because the 11-speed Cassettes have the same Cog spacing, you can probably use 8-speed wheel AS-IS with a 10-speed SHIMANO Cassette ...
    You MAY-or-may-not need to shorten the stack to only 9-Cogs ...
    I set up one of my bikes with an 11-36, 10-speed Shimano Cassette + 11-speed Chorus rear shifter ... the current rear derailleur is still an early (circa 1999) 9-speed Mirage "medium"-cage rear derailleur (it has the same dimensions as the early Racing Triple rear derailleur of the same generation, and vice versa) which I may-or-may-not replace with a different rear derailleur for purely aesthetic reasons!​
    Of course, if you opt for a 10-speed Shimano Cassette then YOU will need to adjust the rear derailleur's stops-and-cable if you are using the frame with another wheelset which has an 11-speed Cassette ...​
    If you don't have that BORA rear wheel, yet, be sure the seller includes the lockring because there was more than one lockring size and I suspect that it will be difficult to find one at a reasonable cost!

    BTW. There were Shimano-compatible (9-speed ... so, it's good for a 10-speed Shimano Cassette) Freehub bodies which were designed to replace the older Campagnolo Freehub bodies ... they cost somewhere between $55-to-$80 the last time I looked (a long time ago!).

    IF-you-are-handy
    , then you may be able to transplant a non-Shimano, Shimano-compatible Freehub body onto the Camapgnolo rear hub -- some-but-probably-not-all will fit on the Campagnolo axle BUT the tips of the pawls may need to be "shaved" by a small amount to ensure clearance ...​

    If you have a Campagnolo-friendly bike shop, then they can probably order a Mirage/Veloce Freehub body, but you may end up paying as much for it as for a hub.

    Velomine in Springfield, IL handles Campagnolo components (both walk-in and mail-order) and may be worth contacting.​

    If your LBS's Wrench is not Campy-knowledgeable then you may as well do the work yourself ...

    If you don't lose the pawls when you disassemble the hub then the required skill level is not in excess of being the dexterity able to wrap the floss around the pawls which I reckon is equivalent to the skill level required to wind the string on a Yo-Yo.

     
  5. ressbautista

    ressbautista New Member

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  6. ressbautista

    ressbautista New Member

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    I've read somewhere that Campy made some changes to the spline depth when going from 9-speed to 9/10/1. Is this correct? Or are all Campy 9 hubs 10/11-ready?
     
  7. ressbautista

    ressbautista New Member

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    As far as I could tell, this should be 9/10/11 compatible.
     
  8. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    With the presumption that "when going from 9-speed to 9/10/1." is a typo which was intended to be "when going from 9-speed to 9/10/1." then it is very much correct ...

    The original, 8-speed CAMPAGNOLO Freehub body's splines are very shallow and very similar to those on SHIMANO/-compatible Freehub bodies.
    I believe that what you refer to as the original 9-speed CAMPAGNOLO Freehub body was always 10-speed compatible (my possibly inaccurate recollection is that the 1998 Record was 10-speed and the 1998 Chorus was available in 9-speed AND POSSIBLY 10-speed, too ... because I was slow to transition to 10-speed Cassettes, I had opted for the 9-speed Chorus/etc.) the ONLY (?) difference that I can point to is the lockring size which may-or-may-not have been interchangeable with the 8-speed CAMPAGNOLO Freehub body (I just never bothered to check) ...

    More accurately, Campagnolo went from 8-speeds to 10-speeds and made a 9-speed Cassette & Shifters (that is, a 9-speed indexing wheel for the V2 shifter) which fit on their 10-speed Freehub body for those who couldn't make the leap to a Cassette with 10-Cogs. ​

    AFAIK, from 2000-and-beyond, the 9-/10-speed Freehub body uses a smaller Lockring ...

    So, AFAIK, the only reason a person might not use a 9-/10-speed Campagnolo Freehub body from 1998-1999 is because the larger lockring is too large for an 11t Cog.
     
  9. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    So, with the understanding that a so-called 9-speed Campagnolo hub is 11-speed compatible ...

    YOUR queries beg the questions:

    1) "... just how short is your wife?" because unless she is between 4'10" and 5'1" tall, then she should be riding a bike with 700c wheels/tires rather than 650c wheels/tires ....

    It's JUST my opinion, but 650c wheels are probably a good idea for MTBs, but less so for Road bikes ... I guess they are still legal for Triathlon competitions ...

    Is the intended purpose going to be for a Triathlon bike OR is your wife shorter than 5'2"?
    2) "... do you already have the frameset?" for the Bora wheels which you have been looking at?

    What happened to the original wheelset?​

    3) "... do you just like the appearance of Camapgnolo's "triple-spoking" design alternative to the paired spoke design pioneered by ROLF when he was with BONTRAGER?​

    Unless #3 is the reason for looking at any BORA wheelset, then I think that you may want to consider opting for a SHIMANO compatible 10-or-11-speed wheelset (again, the Cog spacing is essentially the same, so if you can live with just 10-Cogs ... and, who can't?) because Shimano/-compatible Cassettes are available in the widest range of Cogs + a much wider range of pricing.

    Shimano 11-speed and Campagnolo 11-speed Cassette have essentially the same Cog spacing, so wheel compatibility is dependent on ensuring the that the rear derailleur's stops are set properly (that is, I do NOT know if the Cassette offsets are the same; and so, if they slightly different then the rear derailleur will need to be dialed in for the particular wheel type).
    As far as the specific wheelset which you linked to ... IMO, unless you are a both a person with deep pockets and a glutton for punishment, then 650c tubulars probably should be avoided -- the options will be few and the cost will be high ...expect no more than 1500 miles (that's probably on the high side) of tread life

    IF really want to spend some spare change on a nice 650c wheelset, then you may want to consider opting for a handbuilt wheelset laced on some DT SWISS hubs ... unless you recently won the Irish Sweepstakes or the Powerball, then their 240 hubs will be plenty-good-enough .... if you are feeling flush, then opt for their 180 hubs.

    Consult COLORADO CYCLIST for hand built wheel options & use them as either the source or a basis for comparison if you opt for a different wheel builder.​
     
  10. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    OOPS ...

    In post #8 (above), the first line should read:

    With the presumption that "when going from 9-speed to 9/10/1." is a typo which was intended to be "when going from 8-speed to 9/10/11." then it is very much correct ... ​
     
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