rorschandt....sorry I missed this message of yours from last week...been kinda busy building a
dealer network in Yahoo....that other hobby of mine re: slapping E-Motors on bents. I think
more bent riders (especially tadpole riders) are on Yahoo that frequent this Newsgroup...even
bent retailers show up. The group is moderated so no one can go sideways into America's role in
Iraq stuff.
Anyway, just after Mikael asked me about the Cyclist Co-op for Denmark, I was approached by 4
Toronto e-cyclists who asked me to setup a Co-op in Toronto in 2004 and I have been trading
emails with a trike designer in the Boston area who wants to get a "solar powered" E-Tadpole
Design Co-op going.
My history setting up co-ops has been in Canada and the laws up here are different than in the USA.
In America you have a thing called the "Sherman Anti-Trust Law" which in harmony with the IRS views
Co-ops in the same light as McCarthy's Red Menace. Co-ops run counter to Capitalist ideals (American
version of Capitalism). Essentially the "Burley Design Co-op" is on the edge of being illegal in
America and this is one reason you don't see Co-opspopping up all over the USA
America would grind to a screetching halt if Co-ops took hold, Co-ops do NOT pay Taxes and NO Taxes
= No social welfare or Stealth bombers.
In a "limited" way America is wealthy enough it can tolerate some "Boutique Co-ops" and a Bent
Specific Co-op is a Boutique Co-op because it serves a limited number of Americans. Now IF 5,000
MTB retailers formed One Co-op...you'd have Washington order in the USMC to teach those commie
Retailers a lesson.
A co-op would work very well on a manufacturing level and I think ATP Vision or Burley tried this
once. It would be (every bent maker) forming a Network to purchase stuff they all use...like buy a
wholesale lot of Barcons that every bent maker would use for 2004. One price for every bent maker
reguardless of size...like it levels the playing field so small builders like Turner & Barcroft can
order in parts at the same price as volume makers like Easy Racer or RANS. Everyone pools their
money for bulk purchasing power.
A Bent Boutique Co-op relying up the Inet to bind members across America would be fairly easy
to do...but morally and ethically a nightmare to Police. You'd have to restrict membership so
as to NOT interfere with a local Bent retailer who pays his rent on his sales. ON-Line dealers
such as Hostel-Shoppe would feel some pain but they have a bricks & mortar store to make $ &
pay the rent....and NOT everyone wants to use a Co-op, so Hostel-Shoppe will take a hit, but it
won't be fatal.
A Bent Boutique Co-op would wok best for bent riders out in the middle of nothing...or a 50 mile
hike to the nearest bent retailer who is only open during Banking hours when you work....I hate that
myself (why not be open at night sometimes for people with a 9-5 job)
Anyway the basis of the co-op is everyone pays a small membership fee that is pooled into one
account and this becomes your working capital for Bulk purchases and members pay the wholesale
price. One example I stock would be Disc Brakes....my price is $33.00per 10 units for the whole
setup (hubs included), if I went to 100 units..as a Co-op would, the wholesale price drops to $20.00
per setup. The SAME Disc Brakes with hubs retail for $169.00 across the USA....this means your
unfriendly limited hours MTB retailer down the street is making a profit of $149.00 on what you can
get in a Co-op for $20.00.
Retailers argue that the huge profits are needed to cover their "cost of doing business" and they
are NOT getting rich. My arguement is that they are not getting rich because they are stupid...dumb
as dirt. They advertise, they hire 25 sales clerks and one bike mechanic, they go for expensive rent
locations, buy a new work van every 2 years, make a slew of bad business decisions and have to raise
bike prices to cover their stupidity....and THEN they complain about how bad business is and how
they cannot afford to keep their kids in private school....okay I went a bit overboard there, some
retailers are okay and worth dealing with...the rest should get into a business they'll lovemore
like selling Jetskis and Kawasaki Trail bikes.
Simple...get 1,000 bent owners to "loan" the Co-op $200.00 and your "Working Capital" is $200K...no
one makes a cent in profit and the $200.00 LOAN draws zero interest for 5 years and is refunded to
the member. Those 5 years you use the $200K to keep the members happy with really low cost
accessories, buy a mess of bents etc. AVOID profits or you pay Taxes. Buy 100 S-Licks November for
85 members, sell the 15 extras at "retail prices" to NON-Members, the "profit" on the 15 S-Licks
goes to Co-op Operating expenses each month re: ISP/Phone/Mailers etc.
John Riley (I think it was John) pointed out...but what about repairs and servicing...this is why we
NEED the bricks and mortar LBS. NOPE...don't agee at all. 1,000 Co-op Members (each) have the
responsibility to care for their fellow members (without $$ payment), if one member has a frame
crack or his/her chain is tretched and he/she is as handy with tools as I am...they have the RIGHT
to ask another Co-op member to assist them, surely 1,000 members you'll end up with enough "skilled"
members to rely upon.
Whole basis of a Co-op is Co-operation (without personal financial gain), you will however gain
being a Mensch (good hearted soul) to other Co-op members.
Write me off the list if ya want any more of this...may have to take a number though. Thanks to
Yahoo I am up to 150 messages a day to reply to.
Joshua
*****
P.S....not being on ARBR as much lately...did I miss something happening because I am NOT seeing
Mr.Dolan anymore....maybe the bears got him on his ride around the lake?
*******************************
"rorschandt" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mikael Seierup" <
[email protected]> wrote in
>
news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > "EZ Biker
" skrev...
> >> GEE Mikael. lets turn this around, using your sentence.
> >>
> >> I (and a few others maybe) are a bit tired of paying huge commisions
> >> > to "Mikael's company" that basically just order parts and sell
> >> them for _a lot_ more. > I wondered if you had any experiences with skipping that link > and
> >> buying direct from the importers or manufacturers? Would a cooperative be > the way to go...
> >
> > A: I dont get paid very well per subtitle if you are referrring to my actual company. B: And I
> > work for my fee. Theres more to subtitling and translation than picking up the phone,
> > ordering a part and then selling it with a 200% markup as a bikeshop does.
>
>
> I can see both sides of this, as bike shops also have other expenses such as for the building,
> money invested in items gathering dust,etc that all goes into the formula for the price I pay for
> parts. I would not mind so much paying for the shop to stay in existence if:
>
> a)they actually could fix my bike. They've shown in the past that they can't.( a "free" 30 day
> tune-up, after which I had to go over everything myself because it no longer shifted properly
> and the brakes rubbed, and a bonus big nick in the paint that wasn't there before)
>
> b)when I go to buy something, they didn't always have to order it. I can order from a catalog with
> no special training /^: So much for immediate gratification!
>
> c)they knew more about the parts than I.
>
> The above makes them little more than a middleman with an out-stretched hand. Recumbent specific
> shops I can support, as even though it is at a
distance,
> they meet 2 of the 3 criteria. The problem in that is: for me that is
still
> mailorder.
>
> The LBS I do biz with has prices inline (about 50% of the time) with mailorder houses if you
> figure in shipping, on the stuff they have IN STOCK. With exceptions, every thing ordered is not a
> bargain. The
selection
> is very limited on necessities like tubes and tires. The pool of employees are fairly
> knowledgeable, so long as it is wedgie related. That knowledge then depends on my own ability to
> translate it to recumbent usage.
>
> Not knowing very well how a CoOp works, I would be interested in learning more.
>
> happy trails, rorschandt
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> May all beings be happy. May they be joyous and live in safety. All living beings, whether weak or
> strong, in high or middle or low realms of existence, small or great, visible or invisible, near
> or far, born or to be born, Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state; Let
> none by anger or hatred wish harm to another. Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches
> over and protects her only child, so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,