cornering at high speed - Criteriums



meb said:
This will help if pedal strike is the issue, but if not there won't be any gain...
Agreed. I do this on my fixed-wheel, if pedal-strike is likely to be an issue, but it doesn't serve a lot of purpose otherwise, unless putting extra side strain on the wheels can be considered a purpose.
 
helmutRoole2 said:
I haven't seen anyone do this in years, but back in the 70s -- I know stevebaby can attest to this since he was racing in the pro peloton back then -- riders used to grease their tires before criteriums to enhance the cornering. It's not done as much now, but if you google or go to your local bicycle shop and ask, I'm sure you find a big tub of tire grease at a reasonable price.

The front tire is most important, but the rear tire should also have liberal helpings of tire grease applied. Also, it's important to hang the tires up in a closet or a dark area and let the grease work its way into the tires before putting them on the rim and reapplying more tire grease.

It works best in the rain.

When I was racing and missed a couple paydays, i'd just opt for Cresco. Works just as well.

Good luck with it.
Tyre greasing seems to have fallen from favour.In the good old days before racing became a slave to commercialism,riders would often help each other out by greasing each other's tyres.No thanks were expected...riders just did it quietly out of a spirit of sportsmanship.That sort of cameraderie doesn't exist anymore,more's the pity.
IMHO,the riders just don't seem to enjoy themselves as much as we used to,Helmut.Do you recall all the jokes and stunts we used to pull on each other? What wonderful days they were! I'll never forget the roars of happy laughter in the peloton when Eddie flipped his bidon into my back wheel causing me to crash into the crowd.Even the old lady whose leg was broken laughed! Sure I had to spit a few teeth out and my shoulder was shattered...but it was all in the spirit of fun! And eye-gouging! How can I forget the playful way Miguel and I exchanged a few joyful eye-gouges on Stage 10 of the 1975 Vuelta! I felt so honoured that I haven't washed that eye since! And what about goosing? There hasn't been any decent goosing since Lance goosed Marco over Mont Ventoux in 2000. Sadly,riders don't give that sort of assistance to their brothers in racing these days. Now it's all EPO and steroids. In my day,10 pints of bitter and a handful of bennies before each stage worked well for us,and as for all this fancy nutrition....a bucket of frites gave us all the carbs we needed,thank you!
But I digress from the topic of greasing. Just like skiers,we all had our special formulae for different conditions. In the hot and dusty conditions of the Giro,for example,I used KY on my tyres. It was readily available in Italy, (every bar had a display stand of the stuff prominently displayed),prevented cracks in the tyre rubber and very versatile. I used it quite liberally on my seatpost.
Aaaaahh....the good old days.....
 
I think the old saying was "A dollop for the knicks, a dollop for the slicks" if I remember correctly.
 
stevebaby said:
Tyre greasing seems to have fallen from favour.In the good old days before racing became a slave to commercialism,riders would often help each other out by greasing each other's tyres.No thanks were expected...riders just did it quietly out of a spirit of sportsmanship.That sort of cameraderie doesn't exist anymore,more's the pity.
IMHO,the riders just don't seem to enjoy themselves as much as we used to,Helmut.Do you recall all the jokes and stunts we used to pull on each other? What wonderful days they were! I'll never forget the roars of happy laughter in the peloton when Eddie flipped his bidon into my back wheel causing me to crash into the crowd.Even the old lady whose leg was broken laughed! Sure I had to spit a few teeth out and my shoulder was shattered...but it was all in the spirit of fun! And eye-gouging! How can I forget the playful way Miguel and I exchanged a few joyful eye-gouges on Stage 10 of the 1975 Vuelta! I felt so honoured that I haven't washed that eye since! And what about goosing? There hasn't been any decent goosing since Lance goosed Marco over Mont Ventoux in 2000. Sadly,riders don't give that sort of assistance to their brothers in racing these days. Now it's all EPO and steroids. In my day,10 pints of bitter and a handful of bennies before each stage worked well for us,and as for all this fancy nutrition....a bucket of frites gave us all the carbs we needed,thank you!
But I digress from the topic of greasing. Just like skiers,we all had our special formulae for different conditions. In the hot and dusty conditions of the Giro,for example,I used KY on my tyres. It was readily available in Italy, (every bar had a display stand of the stuff prominently displayed),prevented cracks in the tyre rubber and very versatile. I used it quite liberally on my seatpost.
Aaaaahh....the good old days.....

By "grease" are you referring to the tire softenning compounds commonly used by drag racers during burnouts?
 
meb said:
By "grease" are you referring to the tire softenning compounds commonly used by drag racers during burnouts?
No, actually, they called it tire grease -- in France is was actually Tire' Greeeseae' -- but that was just a marketing campaign. Some good old fashioned Phil Wood grease worked just as well. Still does IMHO.

Whatever happened to drinking a pint of vodka before a crit. They still doing that? Boy, times have changed. One pint of vodka, some tire grease on a wet down town crit course... I pine for days. I really do.
 
Another way to build bike handling confidence is to take your road bike off road. One winter a buddy and I were just messing around with a little daring do, and challenged each other to a race up a local fire road on our road bikes. We had such a blast we began to keep an eye out for other "venues".

That winter we spent a lot of time in open fields, bmx tracks and such. Looking back, I'm surprised we didn't ruin our wheels!

Come spring and club rides, we were surprised that our bike handling skills were so sharp- there were no obstacles on a road trip that could dismay us. If you are open to something fun and unconventional, it will expand your perceived limits.

Cheers!
 
Hey I just had an criterium. I started at front. I have a high max watt so maybe thats why I find accelerating easy (goes better by the week) I jumped to the front. I got on the right side. Corner went to the left and here everyone went sitting leftside of the wheels. I was right and their was alot of wind (I am 54kg so I suck at that) then came a corner to the right. I was still right side so I had to take the inside really sharp so I braked and lost more positions. I tried to get in the whels on the good side but everytime their was a small spot someone behind me jumped in. Cozz I have to drop speed a bit to get behind the wheel of the guy in front of me and then get to the left side. So this went on tilll the long end to the finish and I dropped.

Then after 20min I jumped in again and the speed.. It dropped SO MUCH. But I am so scared in corners. I brake alot when I am in the drops.

But my question is.. HOW do you guys do corners? I read here someone saying about countersteering. I try that but I don't know wich one is the best.

So straiight line corner to the left. Do you guys put your body down to the left sit behind on the saddle and go true it low. Or.. do you guys push your steer left and your body to the right side?
 
Cut through the apex - Inside knee pointing toward the corner, outside leg pushing down into the pedal, have faith in your tires, they can handle more than you think. Do all your braking before entering the turn, whatever you do, DO NOT hit the brakes while in the turn. Long crank arm guys may want to be especially weary of pedaling through the corner, even at a relatively short 170mm I like to avoid it. Be weary of negative camber turns in the wet. Avoid road markings (the white lines) in the wet if at all possible. A little practice goes a long way. That's all I got.

I am older, but not old. WTF is tire grease?!!! Is that like a left handed smoke shifter in the boy scouts?
 
I know there are various opinions on this, but thinking about it my body is usually oriented in the same position (horizontal plane) as the bike, or even leaning into the turn slightly with the bike. And I am as low as possible as a low center of gravity is conducive to fast cornering. I have seen diagrams that suggest the body should stay as upright as possible but coming from a motorcycling background that seems completely counter intuitive to me. personally any time I personally experimented with that it felt as though wipeout was imminent. One thing I forgot to mention is also to look where it is you want to end up, while also being cognisant of the riders infront of, and beside you..

I hear folks mention counter-steering but unlike on a motorcycle I have never consciously counter-steered on a bike, which is detrimentally important to life and limb on a motorcycle.

Disclaimer: my lawyer has advised me to mention the aformentioned advice is for entertainment purposes only /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by danfoz .

I am older, but not old. WTF is tire grease?!!! Is that like a left handed smoke shifter in the boy scouts?
No but I think I have some in my tool box right next to the left handed Bearing wrench that I have to use on the Exhaust Bearings.
 
Dave Pace said:
No but I think I have some in my tool box right next to the left handed Bearing wrench that I have to use on the Exhaust Bearings. 
Nissan sell Muffler Bearings - I sh1t ye not. Tyre grease is ace. Beloki's mechanic didn't apply enough for that fateful stage in the Tour where he was forced to slow to a halt using his collarbone as an anchor and sending Lance to slide effortlessly down the grassy knoll to shoot the hopes and dreams of his rivals. If he'd not unexpectedly run out of grease his bike wouldn't have bucked like a bronco on crack and shat poor beloki out on the floor. Personally I prefer 10 beers before a crit. Plenty of carbs and its ace at letting you corner like John McGuinness on a record lap of the TT and lunch competitors like Hinault giving the KO to errant French Farmers. McGuiness... McBeer with my McNuggets. Mmmmmm.
 
"Nissan sell Muffler Bearings - I sh1t ye not."

Many company utilize "muffler bearings". They are just a double-tapered donut that allow lead pipes, tail pipes, cats, resonators, etc. to pivot and flex due to heat expansion and chassis flex.


"...to a halt using his collarbone as an anchor and sending Lance to slide effortlessly down the grassy knoll to shoot the hopes and dreams of his rivals."

Post Of The Day!


"Personally I prefer 10 beers before a crit."

I've ridden behind you!
 
I could tell you techniques such as getting low when you turn so your body weight is more centered over your bike, but I think you can get that through many venues---I would recommend going out with someone who is a very skilled rider and start following the wheel through wide turns and have the leader increase the speed as you become more comfortable. Then after you get good at wide turns go into tighter turns and do the same practice.
 
This isn't a criterium specific video, but it does have some great tips on cornering properly
 
Not a bad video - but it misses some good stuff. The info on which hands/legs to weight mid corner is getting there but there's some other stuff that should have been mentioned too...