Could Y'All Simplify "Train or Rest When Tired" For Me, Please?

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]Hey, Y'all![/COLOR][/SIZE]
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[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]I just read through most of the thread below on whether to train or rest when tired. But I'm so new to biking that a lot of it was Greek to me, since I don't know what IOW, CTL on an LSD, SST or HIIT program refers to, or what 2x20 LF sessions or five-hour LSD rides are (sounds like a different kind of trip, lol). So I would love some simplified training advice. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
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[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]I had a physical and got an okay from a cardiologist to exercise, but the extent of his advice for me was things like, “Start slow and build to fast,” and "Do but don't overdo." [/COLOR][/SIZE]
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[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]So, I've been cycling since August with no real schedule other than to just get out and do it as often as possible, and try to do more each week. In good weather I go 6 days a week. My first day, I could barely go a mile. This week I'm up to 10 miles at 10-12 mph (laughable for y'all, I know, but remember I'm fat and almost 60 and a recovering couch spud). My cycling goals are purely recreational, credit-card tours, neighborhood rides, etc.; no races or steep mountain biking. I just want to get really good and efficient at biking to burn a lot of calories and get healthy, so I can continue to enjoy doing it. [/COLOR][/SIZE]
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[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]Keeping that in mind, should I just keep trying to do a little more each week? Both my speed and my distance are slowly increasing. When I do make a bump up the ladder, like this week when I went from 8 miles to 10, I'm so exhausted at the end I can barely climb off the bike. My breathing and pulse recover fairly quickly, but my legs feel shaky for a couple hours afterward, and then they ache the next day or two or three. I'm not trying to get out of the exercise, mind you; I'm just asking is that the way I’m supposed to feel afterward? And then should I do it again the next day, do a little less, a little more, or what? If my legs are aching, do I just push through the pain and bike that day anyway, or do they need some kind of recovery period to build muscle or whatever? [/COLOR][/SIZE]
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[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]Also: Even if I’m not hurting, we have 2- to 3-week periods of rain in the winter where I can’t get out and bike. After such a break, should I back off my previous mileage, or still go for it?[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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[COLOR= #0000ff][SIZE= medium]It would be futile and probably dangerous for me to even attempt to train like you athletes who are in great shape, and all the training schedules I find seem to be geared to people more in your leagues, who have been biking a long time and know about maximum velocity output or periodization or whatever. So I would really appreciate some ideas for a super-ignorant newbie training regimen.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE= medium][COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks![/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE= medium][COLOR= #0000ff]Sierra [/COLOR] [/SIZE]

 

[dhk2]

Basic concept of training is stress followed by recovery. If your legs are sore after a tough ride, it means you've put plenty of stress on the muscles, causing some minor tears and breakdown which will take those 2-3 days to heal. More training on sore legs will slow recovery and could lead to more serious injuries which can cause you to miss weeks of riding or quit altgether. No matter how much you want to rush things, your body needs months of time to adapt by opening miles of capillaries in those muscles, tuning up your billions of previously-under used mitochondria, get your ligaments, tendons and joints in shape for the work, etc, etc.

Simpliest plan for now is to do your 8-10 mile ride followed by at least 2-3 days of either rest or "recovery rides". A recovery ride for you would be 4-5 miles at a very easy pace. The idea is to keep some blood flow to the sore legs while they are recovering without doing any more damage. 20-30 minutes of easy spinning in a low (easy) gear is all you need to aid recovery. Or instead an easy walk on the off-days is good too....particularly if you find it's hard to go slow and easy on the bike ( a lot of us have trouble doing that on off-days ).

An old "rule of thumb" is that you shouldn't increase your single-ride or weekly mileage more than 10% at a time. After an increase, allow a few weeks for adaptation before moving up again. Take all the time you need, be patient as your body adapts to the training at it's own pace, and remember it's a long-term process. Crash fitness programs don't work any better than crash diets.

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Hi, DH, and thanks![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]That's a great explanation in terms even I find easy to understand. And I love that you got specific enough to tell me what a recovery ride for me should be, because I was feeling like I was taking a step backward if I did only that many miles now. I did finally ditch the crash dieting that has failed me for 30 years, and am just eating fewer calories of healthier foods, and that's working -- I've lost 48 pounds as of today, yay me! So it's time to learn how to train properly, too, and I appreciate the help. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]It's funny that you mentioned having difficulty going slow and easy on the bike on off days, because, even as new as I am, I do too. If I'm trying to take an easier day because I'm hurting, it's so hard to go slower, like I have an automatic go-this-fast thing built into my brain. But I need to work on that, since I can't walk for my off days due to a bad ankle and knee for which I'm putting off total replacement as long as possible (putting it off permanently, if I can manage that). Once we move closer to a swimming pool, I'd like to learn to swim well enough for it to be good exercise, too, and I could do that on off days.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Again, thanks for the great advice! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif[/COLOR]

 

[davereo]

48 pounds good for you!!!!
Great advice in simple terms by dhk2.
I follow a less scientific approach that works well for me. I ride 3 times a week. I do a short mid week ride that is high intensity meaning I try to cover as much mileage as possible in a short period of time 1 hour or less. On Saturdays I do a high mileage ride at least 40 miles 2 or more hours in duration. Then on Sunday I do a recovery type ride being that I go out and ride until I feel like heading home. I have been doing this for years for no other reason then that it works for me and keeps it fun.
My legs do get sore and my schedule allows plenty of time for recovery. Although if I miss a ride for one reason or another my legs are aching to get back on my bike.
So in closing for a recreational type fitness rider I don't worry about STD, LSD or THC.

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Hi, Dave![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]And thanks! I'm pretty excited about the 48 pounds -- will be even more so when I finally get to 50, and it's close now. Then 60.... then 70.... and onward! Frugal Hubby is so excited about it he's not even complaining about the new clothes I need, lol.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]So if I understand your post right and wanted to kind of follow it, I would do a ride on Wednesday for about an hour as fast as I can go, and then a long ride (40 miles??? holy cow!) on Saturday (which would take me more than 2 hours at this point, lol), and then a recovery/just for fun ride on Sunday until I wanna stop, right? How fast/hard do you go on your long Saturday ride? [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]No matter how I've been riding, my legs always hurt for about the first 3/4 mile, which I assume is just getting warmed up. Then they hurt again at about 3 or 4 miles for a mile or so, and quit hurting, and then they don't hurt again until near the end of the ride when I'm pushing my limits. I'm not sure why they start and stop hurting like that. If it gets too bad, I either slow down or coast as much as possible for a bit until it eases. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]This kind of information is so fascinating and so helpful! I do like the idea of having a day off or an easy-ride day between hard rides, since I was always trying to do a little more each day, and beginning to get pretty tired out. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks, guys![/COLOR]

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by SierraSlim .

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Hi, Dave![/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]And thanks! I'm pretty excited about the 48 pounds -- will be even more so when I finally get to 50, and it's close now. Then 60.... then 70.... and onward! Frugal Hubby is so excited about it he's not even complaining about the new clothes I need, lol.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]So if I understand your post right and wanted to kind of follow it, I would do a ride on Wednesday for about an hour as fast as I can go, and then a long ride (40 miles??? holy cow!) on Saturday (which would take me more than 2 hours at this point, lol), and then a recovery/just for fun ride on Sunday until I wanna stop, right? How fast/hard do you go on your long Saturday ride? [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]No matter how I've been riding, my legs always hurt for about the first 3/4 mile, which I assume is just getting warmed up. Then they hurt again at about 3 or 4 miles for a mile or so, and quit hurting, and then they don't hurt again until near the end of the ride when I'm pushing my limits. I'm not sure why they start and stop hurting like that. If it gets too bad, I either slow down or coast as much as possible for a bit until it eases. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]This kind of information is so fascinating and so helpful! I do like the idea of having a day off or an easy-ride day between hard rides, since I was always trying to do a little more each day, and beginning to get pretty tired out. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Thanks, guys![/COLOR]

Congrats on the big weight loss.
One thing to consider in the context of recovery is the use of the word hurt and while there are various opinions on this regarding rest and recovery "hurting" is not always a sign that rest is needed. The discomfort you describe is something I endure in my first miles as well, but after a few miles and the legs begin to open up and discomfort eases. I have had some exceptional training on days where the first few miles were a real struggle, but ended with a very exceptional day.

There are times of pain (hurt), which is a true reactionary protective signal from the nervous system to stop to prevent further damage and then there is discomfort from muscle tightness or other forms of discomfort. The type you describe sounds like discomfort which is not necessarily a signal to stop training.

You alone have to discern if it is good to skip a day or not, but consider that discomfort from muscle tightness is just part of the equation and training through it is not necessarily a bad thing.

As others have said to incrementally increase the training stress load over a period of weeks, months and years. I was generally fit when I started in cycling, but it still took me more than 3 years of riding at a very casual pace with the slowest group in a large cycling club. Eventually I moved up the fastest group of the club and then a few of us split from that group to form a more specialized group that are not at the level of racing, but we are getting there. Incremental steps in terms of years.

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Hi, Rider.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]See, that's what I was wondering about. I figured that there must be some muscle soreness when you're waking them up from a 40-year sleep, I just didn't know if it ever went away. If my legs only hurt at the beginning of the ride, I would assume that's what it was. It's the soreness that comes back after about 3 or 4 miles that made me wonder if I was doing too much to try to increase every day. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]There have been days when I just felt so totally drained and exhausted and sore that I've thought, "I just can't do a ride today," and haven't, trusting that since it makes me unhappy to take a day off, it isn't just being a slacker to do so that day. And I was probably right, because I felt so much more ready to hit it the next day. So maybe I have to do that with my leg pain, too, and work through it when I think I can, and not ride when I just can't face it. Or I could always go ahead and start an easy ride that day, knowing the bike has a turn-around feature, lol, if it gets to be too much. That has only happened once, and it wasn't due so much to leg pain as just to a sudden total inability to continue -- I think y'all call it The Zonk. It was just suddenly almost impossible to pedal at all, I figured something was wrong, and came back home. I think that time was due to not eating enough earlier in the day, because after I came home and ate I felt much better.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]I'll try to learn to trust what my body and muscles are telling me.... without being a slacker. I don't trust them much, because for 40 years all they said was, "No, no, don't go anywhere. Stay in this nice comfy recliner and watch this fantastic movie coming on," lol. But I love biking so much that they'll have a much harder time getting me to agree to that any more. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks for the input. I have a lot of thinking to do![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Sierra[/COLOR]

 

[CalicoCat]

Listen to your body, it usually tells you what you need to know. The more riding, training, etc that you do, the more you will come to understand what your body is saying, and listening to it will become second nature. You already seem to be picking up cues from your body, so trust what it is telling you as it is rarely wrong. And have fun. You don't need to overthink things at this point in your training, just ride.

 

[64Paramount]

My legs and joints (heck, my whole body complains) always give me some negative feedback when I first start a ride. I usually think "I don't think I'm going to ride very far" or "This isn't going to be a fast ride". But, after a mile or so that goes away and I'm just enjoying the ride.

I usually only ride every other day, and that depends on the weather and my work schedule, so that I have recovery time and still be able to keep up with everything else I have going on.

My schedule last season was:

Sunday - A short length gentle recovery ride

Tuesday - A medium length hard ride

Thursday - A medium length hard ride

Saturday - A long length hard ride

But, that might not work for everyone. I think you have to start with some good advice, like that given in the posts above, and then adapt it into a schedule that works the best for you.

Although this is a cycling forum, don't overlook upper body and core training for those days when you don't ride. While that type of training probably won't specifically improve your bicycling abilities, it will increase your overall level of health and fitness if done properly. There are some good coaches on here that can give some very good advice on that subject. I think this may be very important when you are decreasing your calorie intake to lose weight!

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Wow, Y'all,[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]That's some awesome common-sense advice! [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Cat, you're dead on, I'm concentrating so hard on doing it right and learning other's schedules and all that I forget to just ride and have fun, so will work on remembering that! (And I will definitely learn to listen to the body, thanks.)[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Paramount, the schedule you listed also sounds good to me, and like something I could actually DO. But I was also ignoring the upper body, and will absolutely look for some hints on upper body and core training; I hadn't thought about it for cycling Gosh, if I work that in 3 days a week, too, Dear Hubby will have to hire a maid, lol. I'm beginning to see how much time all this can turn into! So I'll need to get organized, as well.... Lord, I'm in trouble. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/ROTF.gif[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks again, you two.[/COLOR]

 

[Felt_Rider]

Something to consider if it is possible in your area is to check around to see if there are any bike clubs. If so see if they have different levels or one that will fit you current condition.
Once you begin to stretch out the miles a club ride can provide protection in various ways while out on the road and good mentoring.

You mentioned experiencing a "zonk" /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif which is a bonk /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif, but you were close and I did also in my first weeks of cycling longer distance, but fortunately I was in a club ride and was handed several gels and one actually gave a bottle of water because I was ignorant of bringing enough with me. Another is mechanical breakdowns and the guys in our group always take care of the girls within the group for cable breaks and other things that can happen. Plus cycling in a larger group provides a bit more protection against the occasional rude driver(s). Too many witnesses in a large group for them to mess with. There are other reasons and maybe you can find a group in your area that will help in a multitude of ways.

I am a group ride leader in the club's advanced level and one of my tasks besides providing a nice safe route with store stops is to find an interesting route that will be a challenging to my group level. I do this and the rest get to just enjoy the day out on the road. Sometimes I get to sit in an enjoy the route because someone else steps up and leads. At your level finding a club ride can be fun and give a sense of security when extending the miles.

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Hi, Rider![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]You must have been reading my mind, because I was already thinking about trying to find a club for newbies. I am nervous about riding very close to other riders, but that's only because I'm not used to it and am afraid I'd run into somebody and knock them down if we didn't corner the same or something. I'm sure if I explained that, they would let me ride at the back of the group or whatever -- which is probably where I would belong, anyway, given my conditioning. And I would enjoy being with others who enjoy cycling, because none of my friends do, yet -- (I'm trying, I'm TRYING, lol). I actually just saw a club yesterday online that advertised a ride which they said was for beginners, so I'm going to call and find out more. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]I'm glad someone occasionally steps up and lets you enjoy the ride, too. That's only fair. If somebody helped me in any of the ways you described, at this point all I could do in appreciation would be to bake 'em some cookies, lol.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks for the input. Will let you know if I find one![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Sierra[/COLOR]

 

[Gweilo]

Hiya,

I think it is brilliant you have lost so much weight! Congrats! And got so enthusiastic about cycling!

Just wanted to say you might have soreness also due to arthritis. I had a total ankle replacement nearly 4 years ago and believe me before the operation there was no way I was going for a long ride because of the pain from the arthritis. (And I was 26 at the time! And I've done stuff like Ironman so I feel like I'm not too much of a wimp)

Also there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to keep cycling after an ankle replacement. I was in so much less pain after the replacement than before it I honestly had no idea how much pain I was actually in until it was gone. Fantastic!

So really just saying keep going you're doing an amazing job, but also don't feel like if you do one day get to a place where you need a replacement, don't worry it's not the end of the world, in fact mine has been the best decision I ever made/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[hrumpole]

One of the things that I'd caution is that there's a big difference between recovery at 60 (or even 40) than at 20. So take it easy. Once you're up to 10x per day, 6 days per week, make the ride before your day off 11 miles. The next week, 12.1 The next, 13.2. I've found that these longer rides make the shorter weekday ones seem easier, and gentle increases don't make it seem like punishment. As these miles build up, in my own experience, the long ride makes a huge difference in fitness.

Great job on the weight.

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks, you two, and welcome to the forums![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]A pat on the back is always a day brightener. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Gweilo, I appreciate the information on ankle replacements, too. I think it's like you said; we don't realize how much pain we're in until it stops. Mine doesn't hurt much unless I try to walk more than about half a block -- which is why I've been putting off replacement -- but then, half a black isn't very far to be able to walk without hurting! So of course I can't do a day at the mall or spend time at Disneyland, etc., which gets really frustrating. I'm not quite ready for a motorized cart or wheelchair, yet.... It would make me feel older than I do already, lol. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Rumpole, I really like the schedule you suggested for increasing distance and endurance. So far I haven't been able to get up to ANY mileage 6 days a week, because we've had so much rain all winter that I'm lucky to get in 2 rides a week. I did break down and buy a trainer to use on rainy days, but I'm astounded at how much harder it is to make myself get on that one than it is to go outside and have fun on a ride, lol. Working' on that. We're supposed to get at least a little sun each day for the next 10 days, so I'm really hoping to get some workouts in before the next rainy month hits. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks again for the encouragement and the input! I'll look forward to reading your posts on the forums.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Sierra[/COLOR]

 

[doctorold]

FWIW. I got into cycling 3 1/2 years ago when my orthopaedic surgeon suggested I ride to rehab from meniscus surgery. At that time I weighed 260 lbs. By winter I had lost 15-20 lbs. During the winter I spent time in the gym on the treadmill. Not my fave, but lost another 10-15. When spring came I jumped back on the bike and by fall I lost the remainder of my weight. I am now at 200 and very fit. I even play competitive basketball one night a week. When I started riding, all I had was a Raleigh mtn. bike. I quickly found that to be improper for the roads I was riding and bought my current Trek 7.3 fx. When I began riding I rode through the neighborhoods for 6-8 miles, 4-5 days a week. I quickly got up to 8-10 miles by winter. In the spring I resumed but was easily at 10-12 miles but before summer I was doing 15-16 miles. Now my average ride is 18-20 miles although I sometimes choose a hilly route and only do maybe 15-16 miles which is sometimes a bigger workout than the 18-20 mile routes. Basically, my rides now are limited only by time. I don't always have time to ride a more lengthy route. My longest ride is 27 miles. But my stamina is simply something that came from plenty of time on the bike and consistency. Weather permitting, I ride 4 to 5 days per week. Last winter was unusually cold here and I spent a good bit of time on the treadmill and as a result I suffered a repetitive motion injury of bursitis in my left hip. This winter I took the plunge and bought a cycle trainer which has been a great thing for me (I listen to podcasts to keep me occupied). My point I guess is, ride often. I found that my body eventually adapted and now I can take a few days off, get back on the bike and see no ill effects. Recovery? I have to really to push the envelope to get myself to the point of soreness that I would need time to recover. I am no spring chicken so believe me, my body does not recover like it used to when pushed to the limit. In the earlier stages of my cycling, if I rode hard and I felt the effects, my next ride might be shorter. But a short ride is better than no ride. I just kept moving. The body adapted. Everyone is different. Just take it for what it's worth. And good luck...keep pedaling!

 

[SierraSlim]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks, Doctorold![/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]I love learning what other cyclists do to train and recover, and how they work through injuries or rainy seasons or whatever. You've done a great job losing all your weight, and that's a real inspiration to me! I haven't reached the stage yet where I can miss a week and then feel no ill effects; it seems like I can really tell it even if I've just missed 3 days or so. But I'm assuming that eventually I will get there. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]I read somewhere that for every year you're out of shape, it takes a month to get back into shape. I've been out of shape for 35 years, so am wondering if it's really going to take me 3 years before I'm up to speed! But it doesn't really matter how long it takes, I guess, as long as I keep improving. I already feel lots better than I did 6 months ago, so as long as that keeps happening, I've got time, lol. [/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Thanks for the input! And happy pedaling.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= #0000ff]Sierra[/COLOR]

 

[doctorold]

Good luck and most importantly, have fun!