Counterfeit Bianchi?

[Dumpster Bike]

something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
this weekend. the guy was describing a bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a
bianchi or not".

here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as a
forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all for
20 bucks, not bad)

the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it had
nothing on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat tube, and
little Piaggio stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the
whole bike is made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing). also, the fork ends and
dropouts are stamped with SunTour GT. its lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my work
bike, a fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real nice ride so this fits the bill, but
i was wondering if it was even a bianchi at all.

what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:28:05 +0000, Dumpster Bike wrote:

> something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
> this weekend.

T-town?

> here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
> way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
> good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as
> a forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all
> for 20 bucks, not bad)

Your money's worth, it seems.
>
> the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
> and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath).

Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.

it had nothing on the head
> tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat tube, and little Piaggio
> stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the whole bike is
> made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing).

Are you sure the fork was original with the bike?

Pictures (a link to them, only) would help.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Squid-In-Traini]

> Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.

This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing? Is it of Italian origin? Is it
a certain steel alloy? Is it really so different from other steels that it must be given its
own category?

I'm knowledgeable about new bike stuff, but not of the old stuff.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Grenouil]

"Dumpster Bike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> something someone had said on here a while back came to
mind when i
> bought a frame at a big swap this weekend. the guy was
describing a
> bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a
bianchi or
> not".
>
> here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays
and fork
> blades (half way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other
than that a
> few scratches and paint flaking off but in good condition.
fork needs
> to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on
it, as well as
> a forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae
bars and some
> junky no brand headset. (all for 20 bucks, not bad)
>
> the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus
tubing. i
> doubted it judging by the weight and the way the gold
stick on decals
> were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it
had nothing
> on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes
there as well
> as the seat tube, and little Piaggio stickers. the steerer
tube had
> Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the whole
bike is made
> of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing).
> also, the fork ends and dropouts are stamped with
SunTour GT. its
> lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my work
bike, a
> fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real
nice ride so
> this fits the bill, but i was wondering if it was even a
bianchi at
> all.
>
> what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

What's wrong with Ishiwata steel? It's been used for many nice steel bikes - e.g. see the 3Rensho
Katanas at http://www.yellowjersey.org/showroom.html - how heavy is the frameset?

I also saw a refrerence to a Bianchi made with Ishiwata steel - do a web search....

 

[Andresmuro]

I doubt that your bianchi was counterfit. It was probably one of the lower end models made in Asia.
They were not necessarily bad bikes, but the labor was cheaper. Ishiwata has all grades of tubing
too, from fancier, seamless, butted lighter tubes to heavier seamed straight gauge. Hard to tell
what yours is unless it is spelled out, and it clearly won't matter for the price or what you want
it for. If it says bianchi, most likely it is a Bianchi.

Andres

>something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
>this weekend. the guy was describing a bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a
>bianchi or not".
>
>here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
>way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
>good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as a
>forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all
>for 20 bucks, not bad)
>
>the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
>and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it had
>nothing on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat tube, and
>little Piaggio stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing then the
>whole bike is made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing). also, the fork ends and
>dropouts are stamped with SunTour GT. its lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my work
>bike, a fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real nice ride so this fits the bill, but
>i was wondering if it was even a bianchi at all.
>
>what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>

visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:57:16 +0000, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

>> Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.
>
> This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing? Is it of Italian origin? Is it a
> certain steel alloy? Is it really so different from other steels that it must be given its own
> category?

They make a whole line of tubes, similar to Reynolds. I guess they are Italian, but don't know. Back
in the '70s they were comparable to Reynolds in weight and quality. Cinelli bikes were made with
Columbus tubing.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | This is my religion. There is no need for temples; no need for _`\(,_ | complicated
philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our (_)/ (_) | temple. The philosophy is kindness.
--The Dalai Lama

 

[Waal]

"AndresMuro" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse
news:[email protected]...
> >This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing?
>
> That it was named after a man who is responsible for the enslavment and massacre of a bunch
> of people.

Mr. Angelo Luigi Colombo ? Production of steel tubes started in 1919. Production of tubes (butted)
for bicycles started in 1927. The Columbus trademark was born in 1930

Michael
>
> visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

 

[Ted Bennett]

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Columbus tubing from when? If early '70s, it still could be fairly heavy and really be Columbus.
>
> This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing? Is it of Italian origin?

Yes, and the second question answers the first.

> Is it a certain steel alloy? Is it really so different from other steels that it must be given its
> own category?

Like any manufacturer, Columbus has some propietary features which include alloy specification, but
the brand name "Columbus" is more of a marketing distinction than an engineering one. As for the
actual alloy, there are others here who can write about that authoritatively.

> I'm knowledgeable about new bike stuff, but not of the old stuff.

Heh. It's all old stuff to me now. There is nothing new in bicycles.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

 

[A Muzi]

Dumpster Bike wrote:

> something someone had said on here a while back came to mind when i bought a frame at a big swap
> this weekend. the guy was describing a bike he had, and said that "who knows if it was really a
> bianchi or not".
>
> here's what i got: its a candy apple red road frame, 63ish CM, chromed stays and fork blades (half
> way up), rear der. hangar sawed off, other than that a few scratches and paint flaking off but in
> good condition. fork needs to be realligned slightly. it had an SR double crank on it, as well as
> a forged SR stem, MKS campy knockoff pedals, some sakae bars and some junky no brand headset. (all
> for 20 bucks, not bad)
>
> the dude selling it told me it was nice butted columbus tubing. i doubted it judging by the weight
> and the way the gold stick on decals were applied (sloppily, peeling, airbubles underneath). it
> had nothing on the head tube, bianchi on the downtube, some stripes there as well as the seat
> tube, and little Piaggio stickers. the steerer tube had Ishiwata stamped on it, which im guessing
> then the whole bike is made of (the cheaper over-seas, straight gauge tubing). also, the fork ends
> and dropouts are stamped with SunTour GT. its lugged and is in decent condition. im using it as my
> work bike, a fixed with a front brake. i dont really need some real nice ride so this fits the
> bill, but i was wondering if it was even a bianchi at all.
>
> what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

Sounds a lot like a Bianchi from about 1982. Probably the "Limited" model if it has a solid crown.
The headset's by Tange. Michael Schwering (former track champion, now deceased) designed very good
bikes for them at the time. Built from double butted premium Ishiwata tube (019/022; Columbus SL/SP
equivalent) in Osaka, they were good-handling, light and priced well. The "Special" model, below
"Limited", was three tubes Mangaloy with a pressed crown. The Osaka bikes opened the door for the
triumphant return of Bianchi to bike shops in America after fumbling through the seventies.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

>>This causes me to ask: What's so great about Columbus tubing?

AndresMuro conjectured:

> That it was named after a man who is responsible for the enslavment and massacre of a bunch of
> people. visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

No it wasn't.

The founder of the manufacturing firm A L Colombo, SpA (later Columbus, SRL) named it eponymously,
not for Christopher.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jim Adney]

On 6 Oct 2003 21:28:05 -0700 [email protected] (Dumpster Bike) wrote:

>what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.

The straightforward way to tell butted tubing (on most frames) is to measure the seat post size.
Since seat tubes are only single butted, ie thin all the way to the top, a butted seat tube will
take a larger diameter seat post.

For frames with 1-1/8" OD tubing, butted frames will have seat posts that range in diameter from
26.8 to 27.4mm, with 27.2 being the most common.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email protected] Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

 

[Dan Daniel]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:13:46 -0500, Jim Adney <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6 Oct 2003 21:28:05 -0700 [email protected] (Dumpster Bike) wrote:
>
>>what do you guys think?? thanks in advance.
>
>The straightforward way to tell butted tubing (on most frames) is to measure the seat post size.
>Since seat tubes are only single butted, ie thin all the way to the top, a butted seat tube will
>take a larger diameter seat post.
>
>For frames with 1-1/8" OD tubing, butted frames will have seat posts that range in diameter from
>26.8 to 27.4mm, with 27.2 being the most common.
>
>-
>-----------------------------------------------
> Jim Adney [email protected] Madison, WI 53711 USA
>-----------------------------------------------

I thought that the best way to tell butted tubing is to tap along its length with a piece of metal,
like a key or a coin. You can hear the change in tone as you move from one thickness to another.

 

[Dan Daniel]

On 09 Oct 2003 04:20:00 GMT, [email protected] (AndresMuro) wrote:

>>I thought that the best way to tell butted tubing is to tap along its length with a piece of
>>metal, like a key or a coin. You can hear the change in tone as you move from one thickness to
>>another.
>
>Bologny, the metal in the middle will always have a higher pitch than when you get to the ends. It
>won't sound much different in a straight gauge or db.
>
>Andres
>
>visit my art website at: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

Yes, you get different tones as you move along the length of any tube. Braze-ons and bridges also
change the tone.

Maybe I'm hearing things, but there is a quick transition area where the tone changes in a butted
tube in a way that it doesn't in a straight gauge tube.

 

[A Muzi]

Dan Daniel wrote:

-snip Jim Adney's tube set/seatpost dimenions -

> I thought that the best way to tell butted tubing is to tap along its length with a piece of
> metal, like a key or a coin. You can hear the change in tone as you move from one thickness to
> another.

That's true. You get a similar effect along the length of a straight gauge tube.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jim Adney]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:20:53 -0700 Dan Daniel <[email protected]> wrote:

>Maybe I'm hearing things, but there is a quick transition area where the tone changes in a butted
>tube in a way that it doesn't in a straight gauge tube.

If you are really hearing a quick change, then somethings playing tricks on you. The changes in wall
thickness take place over a distance of about 3".

I've never been able to convince myself that I could hear the changes, even when I had a bare butted
tube in my hand.

I guess the way to really test this would be to take a bare butted seat tube and see if I can hear
any difference between the 2 ends; only one end is butted.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email protected] Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------