Ozzie Gontang <
[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030320041842035567%
[email protected]>...
> In article <
[email protected]>, TopCounsel <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Recent attempts to incorporate some slower running into my routine caused me to notice something
> > I have always done without giving it a second thought -- silently counting out my cadence in my
> > head -- while running, for me this is a constant 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, such that the starting
> > foot alternates right-to-left and back (helps keep symmetric running form, I'd bet).
> >
> > For me, this is a vestige of the fact that my first sport was cycling, where keeping your
> > cadence nearly constant is a hallmark of good cycling, and is enabled by being pro-active with
> > your gear changes. While cycling, most people try to keep at about 60 rpm or higher, and folks
> > like Lance Armstrong or Greg Lemond may be at 80-90 rpm or more at times. While cycling, my
> > count is always 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, different than the running count in that it always
> > starts with the same footstroke.
> >
> > This habit has become so ingrained in my running and cycling that I never even notice it
> > anymore; nonetheless, I believe it is extremely helpful in maintaining pacing. I can invariably
> > guess within 30 seconds how long it has taken me to complete a given circuit, though I never run
> > for less than 45 minutes or so. Perhaps more important, counting my cadence reminds me to
> > shorten my stride and keep the same cadence on the uphill portions of my runs ("gearing down").
> >
> > The counting does not keep me from thinking about other things while running, as it takes up a
> > level of conciousness somewhere underneath real "thinking." As most NG regulars know, the
> > recommendations for distance-running cadence vary somewhat but seem generally to congregate
> > around 160 -190 steps per minute, and this fits nicely with the 1-2-3 per second count.
> >
> > Am I alone in doing this? Other interesting variations on this theme out there?
>
> Top,
>
> From a reply of mine to to Arthur Dent about 2+ years ago.
>
> In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
> Clinic, est. 1975
>
> Mindful Running:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
>
>
> Arthur Dent wrote:
>
> > I've been experimenting on recent long runs with different ways to keep from going too fast too
> > early, which invariably causes me to run much slower at the end.
> >
> > My breathing experiment seemed to be quite successful. On my last long run, an 18-miler, I
> > consciously held myself to a 4-in, 4-out pattern for the first 6 miles. By only running as fast
> > as I could comfortably run with this pattern, my pace was a nice and slow 8-8.5 minutes/mile
> > (MPM). Then, at the 6-mile mark, I shifted to a 3-in, 4-out pattern for 3 miles. And, at 9
> > miles, I shifted to a 3-in, 3-out for the next 4 miles. By this point, I was doing a steady 8
> > MPM. At mile 13, I shifted to 2-in, 3-out and, finally, for the last 3 miles, I kicked it into
> > high gear
> > (i.e., 2-in, 2-out) and slowly accelerated to my hoped-for marathon race pace, doing my last
> > mile in 7:23. It was a good feeling to know that I could run a 7:23 mile, without killing
> > myself, after having already run 17 miles (and this was my first time running the 18-mile
> > distance!). All-in-all, I averaged 8 MPM, with first mile being 8:13, then gradually
> > slowing to 8:40 at mile 6, then gradually speeding up as I moved to faster breathing
> > patterns. Is this a good long-run pace for someone hoping to do a marathon at 7:20 pace?
> >
> > Does anyone else use this technique? And what about for the race itself? For the race itself,
> > I'd like to do the first few miles at
> > 7:50 pace, then accelerate to 7:20 by maybe the 4-5 mile mark, maintaining 7:20 until the half,
> > then pushing to 7:15 to make up for the early slowness, and, finally, for the last few miles
> > just hoping to hold onto 7:20....
> >
> > I think that I can do the above negative splitting by consciously constraining myself to slower
> > breathing patterns at the start, but is this an inefficient way to control pace? Would I be
> > better off if I could hold the desired pace while freely allowing myself to move to faster
> > breathing patterns? Or does consciously sticking to slower breathing patterns at the start have
> > the favorable effect of not only limiting pace, but also of speeding the transition from glycogen-
> > burning to fat-burning? Does it take more oxygen to burn glycogen than it does to burn fat? AD
>
>
> Arthur,
>
> A man after my own lungs. Here's a post that I have grown into what I call Breathing Rhythms and
> Patterns. Hopefully helping to increase your own folklore on breathing. As you allude to, the
> breathing becomes the gears to keep fueling the body with enough O2 to keep the body metabolizing
> its stores of energy.
>
>
>
> Breathing Rhythms & Patterns
> c.1999, 2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.
>
> Next to proper running form and style and an integral part of proper running is breathing and the
> rhythms of breath.
>
> Once good running form is achieved one can keep the same cadence and be running 30 seconds to 2+
> minutes a mile faster. The issue is getting the leg through its cycle to touch the ground
> maintaining the same cadence. This is where the concept of running is falling and catching oneself
> gracefully comes into play.
>
> To that end, breathing becomes the next important factor in maintaining an oxygen uptake to
> support the increased speed while maintaining the same cadence turnover.
>
> This is where I teach breathing at slower speeds to a 4 steps in and 4 to 8 steps out. The idea is
> that I am never panicked and that my breathing sequences are always enough to sustain the rate of
> turnover...which maintains at the same cadence be it a 9 or 10 minute mile or a 5 minute or better
> mile. For the young and for top runners, most never think about breathing. However thinking about
> breathing patterns and rhythms and practicing them will allow someone who has played with or
> practiced them a possible advantage if it allows them to stayed relaxed, concentrated and focused
> under extreme stress.
>
> So running slow, I do a 4 in and 6 or 8.. Then as I need more air I go to a 4in/8out; 1 cycle of
> air every 12 steps 2 cycles every 24 steps 4in/7out; 1 cycle of air every 11 steps 4in/6out; 1
> cycle of air every 10 steps 4in/5out; 1 cycle of air every 9 steps 4in/4out; 1 cycle of air every
> 8 steps 3 cycles every 24 steps 3in/4out; 1 cycle of air every 7 steps 3in/3out; 1 cycle of air
> every 6 steps 4 cycles every 24 steps 2in/3out; 1 cycle of air every 5 steps 2in/2out; 1 cycle of
> air every 4 steps 6 cycles every 24 steps 1in/2out; 1 cycle of air every 3 steps 8 cycles every
> 24 steps
> 1in/1out/1in/1out/2in/2out 9 cycles every 24 steps 1in/1out/1in/1out/1in/1out/1in/1out 12 cycles
> every 24 steps
>
> The ideal one goes for is the same volume at all rhythms. Remember you're always breathing though
> the nose even when the mouth is open...unless your nose is blocked, i.e. nasal congestion.
>
> All of these patterns are breathed at a rate so that the mind stays calm and does not let any of
> the body unnecessarily tighten up from a perceived stress beyond one's capability.
>
> The other aspect of breathing cycles is that an even (symmetric) breathing pattern, which means
> when the steps in & steps out total an even number, the runner is always running on the same foot
> at intake and also at exhale.
>
> With an odd (asymmetric) breathing pattern, which means when the steps in & steps out total an odd
> number, the runner is running off the opposite foot at initial intake step of each breathing cycle
> in-three-steps/out-four-steps; in-three-steps/out-four-steps:
>
> in-two-three out-two-three-four in-two-three out-two-three-four LFT-2 - 3--RT -two-three-four RT-two-
> three LFT-two-three-four LFT-two-three... L 2 3 4 5 6 7 R 2 3 4 5 6 7 L 2 3...
>
> In animals there is a breathing pattern which is called phase locking. It has been photographed at
> high speeds in horses, cheetahs, ostriches where at full speed there is one pattern into which
> they fall. In humans, if I remember from the research, there were found two phase lock patterns at
> top speed.
>
> So you can see if you breathe 2in/2out all the time and we speed up you can only continue to do
> what you do. You only get 6 cycles of air every 24 steps. Whereas I can pick up the speed and get
> 8 cycles or even 9 cycles of air every 24 steps...and if I practice I can get 10 or 12 cycles
> every 24 steps.
>
> You may begin to realize that running a marathon during the later part of the run from 15 onwards
> is a matter of running in a trance state. It is through these breathing patterns I have taught
> people to play with the rhythms of their breath to keep on going. So for someone whose muscles are
> glycogen depleted I need to maintain the same running pace but increase the amount of oxygen to
> those muscles...and that is where the breathing patterns come in.
>
> Some people begin to realize the power of rhythm. When I run with a partner and we are doing
> symmetric breathing of 2in/2out or 3in/3out or 4in/4out, I do reciprocal breathing so that after 3
> or 4 minutes as they breathe out I am breathing in and as they breathe in I am breathing out. The
> sound can be heard. The experience is that the other person's out breath is breathing me. On the
> next cycle my out breath is breathing his/her in breath.
>
> Eyes on the horizon, breathing reciprocally with my partner, the miles covered in trance are an
> experience to remember.
>
> When into the breathing and at different breathing patterns both symmetric and asymmetric and some
> being reciprocal, the breathing patterns of 3 or 4 or 5 of us mixed with the foot touch (rather
> than foot fall) can carry a group of runners easily for miles where the mind scans the body to
> relax any tension as it arises and lets it go...going back to the sound of the feet running
> together and the breathe of the pack. If you've seen Stomp you know the power of rhythm!
>
>
>
> In article <
[email protected]>, Jen <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > How are you supposed to breathe when you run? I have no problem doing this when jogging, but
> > when running or doing anything else (like crunches), I never get to the point where my muscles
> > are sore, simply because I always stop when I'm gasping for air. I've tried doing searches on
> > how you're supposed to breathe, but I don't quite understand the notation that people use (such
> > as 8/4) and how do you breathe in-in/out-out? Does this just mean to take a deeper breath?
> > Thanks.
"So for someone whose muscles are glycogen depleted I need to maintain the same running pace but
increase the amount of oxygen to those muscles...and that is where the breathing patterns come in."
(from above)
Are you suggesting that if one simply breaths more they will take in more oxygen? You need to breath
enough, but beyond a certain point your lungs will not take in more oxygen.
