Course for outdoor FTP testing

[maxroadrash]

Hey guys, I tried searching this subject and came up empty, send me some wisdom.
After spending the winter on the PT300, I want to hit the road and test my FTP. The only place
I can do this without a traffic light every block is in a nearby park. What I've got is a 5.4k loop with
a total of 50m of elevation per lap. Because the most of it is rolling, should I use NP to figure my FTP?
Thanks for any advise.
Max

 

[RapDaddyo]

It's not really the upgrades that will cause you problems maintaining a constant intensity, it's the downgrades. If the downgrades are sufficiently steep that you can't maintain your target power (e.g., you spin out in your largest gear), then you'll have to increase intensity on the upgrades and use NP. If you can maintain your target power on the downgrades, it's no problem to ride your target intensity on the upgrades. We tend to automatically increase power on upgrades, but we don't have to so long as the target power produces sufficient bike speed to maintain balance. I had this debate once on a ride with a buddy who had a similar FTP as mine at that time. As we approached a long climb of about 6% grade where we would normally have increased power to something like 300W, I told him that we could easily do the climb at 150W. He was incredulous and thought I was crazy. But, when we started the climb I backed off to 150W and kept a steady 5mph or so. He stayed right with me and at the top he had to admit that you can indeed climb at any power so long as you have enough bike speed to stay upright.

 

[JibberJim]

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo . he had to admit that you can indeed climb at any power so long as you have enough bike speed to stay upright.

You also need the gearing to produce the power at an appropriate cadence for you. I often ride towing a baby trailer, it's extremely un-aerodynamic, it's heavy, to get up some short hills which peak at around 10% I need to do over 400w for those parts or the cadence is lower than I can produce the peak forces required to keep turning the pedals.

For the general point about FTP calculation - be consistent in how you test, and focus less on the number than the process.

 

[mx416]

Doing an FTP test in rolling hills can work fine. When I've done it, I really have to remember/concentrate on staying on top shifting to keep the power up. It's easy to forget or easy just a touch when you're pushing yourself that hard.

 

[maxroadrash]

Thanks guys!
RDO - This course features one downhill section that I will spin out on pretty easily with my present gearing, so my takeaway from what you've said would be to use NP to base my FTP on if I'm following you correctly.

JJ- I get what you are saying about consistency. Without it testing is just spittin' in the wind. I will admit though when you are surrounded by all the guys on this forum putting up big numbers, it's hard NOT to focus on the number.

mx- You really hit the nail on the head about concentration. I enjoy cycling so much that sometimes I slack off and have to remind myself that I'm actually training.

As luck would have it, I rode out to an area today that I think might actually work out better. It's even more rolling but it's also open road and in the morning, there is almost always a headwind. There are a couple of lights but no pedestrians to deal with like in the park. It's also long enough to do about a 40-45 min. test. I think, armed with info you guys have given me, I'll try both locations and see how it works out.
Thanks for the input!
Max

 

[RapDaddyo]

That's the unfortunate thing about downgrades. They tend to screw up a course for constant power rides and testing. You'll have to ride the upgrade sections a bit above your target power to compensate for the downgrade section. But, NP should serve perfectly well for your purpose.

As to the new course you found, that's great. I'm fortunate to have a wealth of training ride routes nearby, including a number of long runs that are upgrade, upwind (normally) and without stop lights. One of my favorite test runs is a 25 mile stretch with only one light that is slightly upgrade and almost always upwind. I use it for constant power rides and tests all the way up to 2 hrs depending on the wind.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by maxroadrash .
What I've got is a 5.4k loop with a total of 50m of elevation per lap. Because the most of it is rolling, should I use NP to figure my FTP?

50/(5000/2) = 2%. It is likely that your average power is a better estimate of your FTP.

 

[Alex Simmons]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .

50/(5000/2) = 2%. It is likely that your average power is a better estimate of your FTP.

NP from a hard hour's riding will be closer to FTP than AP.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons .


NP from a hard hour's riding will be closer to FTP than AP.

Not intending to argue, but simply to point out that NP and AP will not differ enough to matter.

First, in testing FTP one goes out with an expected FTP and bases their effort on that number. So there is always some error where the first part of the test is done at the wrong effort and the final part is done at the wrong effort to compensate.

Second, even large deviations from the expected FTP has little difference on NP. Consider a person who rides at three efforts - 80%, 100%, and 120% of his expected FTP during his FTP test. He spends the same total amount of time at each effort, but he does not necessarily ride at one effort for 1/3 of the ride and then change another effort for the next third.. Reasonably large variations. His AP will be 100% of expected FTP and his NP will at most be 104%.

4% difference between 2 guesses from some unknown FTP. I don't think it matters that much.

I will say that if AP and NP do very a lot and knowing FTP is important, one should retake the test.