crampon use

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by aj, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. aj

    aj Guest

    the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even use
    crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
     
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  2. Alan Dicey

    Alan Dicey Guest

    aj wrote:
    > the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even use
    > crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >
    >


    I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?
     
  3. Adwil

    Adwil Guest

    I was up there on Xmas Day and the ground was frozen with some ice on the
    paths. Off path, the boggy bits were frosty and crusted over. Underfoot grip
    was fine as long as you watched where you put your feet.

    "aj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even

    use
    > crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >
    >
    >
     
  4. Mike Mason

    Mike Mason Guest

    "Alan Dicey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > aj wrote:
    >> the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even
    >> use
    >> crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    > ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    > grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    > are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    > them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?


    you should try the Helvellyn face above Red Tarn when the snow is sparse.
    The scrambling can be quite exciting, with crampons providing much
    assistance on the mixed ground.
    Mike Mason
     
  5. mikek

    mikek Guest

    Personally, I do everything I can to avoid walking on frozen steep grass
    banks. The grass gives the impression of there being nothing more than a
    bit of frost, but can mask a layer of smooth hard frozen soil beneath it and
    when you slip its a bit like being on a glacier thats only got 2cm of soft
    snow on it.


    "aj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even
    > use
    > crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >
    >
     
  6. aj

    aj Guest

    "Alan Dicey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > aj wrote:
    > > the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even

    use
    > > crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    > ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    > grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    > are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    > them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?


    i was coming down off barrow to braithwaite on boxing day,the path was steep
    smooth grass & partly frozen,thats what made me think about crampon use
    after i nearly went head over heels.
     
  7. Alan Dicey

    Alan Dicey Guest

    Mike Mason wrote:
    > "Alan Dicey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> aj wrote:
    >>> the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even
    >>> use
    >>> crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    >> ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    >> grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    >> are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    >> them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?

    >
    > you should try the Helvellyn face above Red Tarn when the snow is sparse.
    > The scrambling can be quite exciting, with crampons providing much
    > assistance on the mixed ground.
    > Mike Mason
    >
    >


    Not really a grass bank though, is it.

    http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/Catstycam summit-half.jpg
     
  8. Paul Rooney

    Paul Rooney Guest

    On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:42:13 +0000, Alan Dicey
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In any case,
    >are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    >them?



    Lots of them (routes, that is, not paths). And some are as scary as
    anything in the district - much more so than exposed rocky scrambles.
    --

    Paul Rooney
     
  9. Paul Rooney

    Paul Rooney Guest

    On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:26:10 -0000, "aj" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Alan Dicey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> aj wrote:
    >> > the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even

    >use
    >> > crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    >> ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    >> grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    >> are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    >> them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?

    >
    >i was coming down off barrow to braithwaite on boxing day,the path was steep
    >smooth grass & partly frozen,thats what made me think about crampon use
    >after i nearly went head over heels.
    >

    I was there last week, in cold rain, pondering the possibilities of
    sliding all the way down if it had been a few degrees colder. It's not
    as though you could fall off, is it?

    --

    Paul Rooney
     
  10. Mike Mason

    Mike Mason Guest

    "Alan Dicey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Mike Mason wrote:
    >> "Alan Dicey" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> message news:[email protected]
    >>> aj wrote:
    >>>> the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even
    >>>> use
    >>>> crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    >>> ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    >>> grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    >>> are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    >>> them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?

    >>
    >> you should try the Helvellyn face above Red Tarn when the snow is sparse.
    >> The scrambling can be quite exciting, with crampons providing much
    >> assistance on the mixed ground.
    >> Mike Mason

    >
    > Not really a grass bank though, is it.
    >
    > http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/Walking/Not_Striding_Edge/Catstycam summit-half.jpg


    Right hand side towards Swirral is mixed ground, mixture of grass and rock.
    Good for beginners to have a go on when the snow is in good condition. In
    the event of only a light covering of snow then there is quite a lot of
    grass about.

    Mike
     
  11. Phil Cook

    Phil Cook Guest

    Alan Dicey wrote:

    >aj wrote:
    >> the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even use
    >> crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >>

    >I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and
    >ground to shreds when it is at its most vulnerable. I can't think of a
    >grass bank that is so smooth that spikes would be needed. In any case,
    >are there any routes left in the Lake District that have grass banks on
    >them? They are all walked-out ruts or paved now, aren't they?


    If the turf is well frozen crampons won't cause much damage.

    You should have tried the open plain of Beinn a Chuirn (Beinn Mhanach,
    head of Loch Lyon) in February last year. Melt water had flowed out
    over a wide area of grass and refrozen the result was like a convex
    ice rink.

    Of course I had left the points in the car not having not used them
    whilst carrying them on snowier and higher hills all week. /Lesson
    learned/.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
     
  12. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:48:19 +0000, Phil Cook
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Alan Dicey wrote:
    >
    >>aj wrote:
    >>> the lakes forcast tomorrow says frozen paths,would a winter walker even use
    >>> crampons on a steep grass bank that is frozen but not covered in snow ?
    >>>

    >>I hope not. It would be incredibly destructive, tearing the grass and


    <snip>

    >If the turf is well frozen crampons won't cause much damage.


    But as you descend the hardness of the frost lessens and you start
    chewing up [fragile] gound.

    Re.: Beinn a Chuirn (Beinn Mhanach, head of Loch Lyon)
    >Melt water had flowed out over a wide area of grass and refrozen the
    >result was like a convex ice rink.


    As in all things safety... its a judgement call. What are crampons
    for? Are there alternate routes to avoid the /tricky bits/ altogether?
    In some conditions certain actions are the only real options, in
    others there's latitude.

    >Of course I had left the points in the car not having not used them
    >whilst carrying them on snowier and higher hills all week. /Lesson
    >learned/.


    Assuming you've kept your options open ;-)
     
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