Crazy biker

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Matt J, Jun 14, 2003.

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  1. Matt J

    Matt J Guest

    "Sojourner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Duffy Pratt wrote:
    > > The question isn't whether one should eat a balanced diet, but what constitutes a proper
    > > balance.
    >
    > There IS no question. Only Atkins and similar fad diets propose upsetting the proportion of
    > fats/carbs/proteins. Low carb, low fat, low protein - all are equally bad.
    >
    > We were not evolved as predatores/carnivores. We evolved mainly as
    > vegetarians/fruits/nuts/seeds/grubs, and secondarily accepted meat-based protein sources, which
    > REALLY took off only once we learned to make FIRE! and consequently learned to cook.
    >
    > Think not? Start eating all your meat raw.... oh, and by the way, just where ARE your canines
    > (compared to carnivores such as dogs, cats, bears, lions, etc....)
    >
    I beg to differ. Our teeth clearly place us in the carnivore category. Our cuspids and incisors
    serve no purpose other than to tear meat from the bone. My cat has four teeth in between her
    cuspids, and so do I. What is your point?
     
    Tags:


  2. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    "Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > >
    > > >Last year I bought my first road bike and during the summer and fall I
    put over
    > > >1000 miles on it. I have fallen in love with cycling. But this winter
    my wife
    > > >and I sold our house and had to move in with my mom. I had my bike but
    my wife
    > > >accedently put all my gear somewhere in the storage unit we rented and
    I ended
    > > >up not able to ride this winter. We finaly got into a new house two
    months ago
    > > >and I was able to retrieve all my crap. I rode a couple of times but
    had a very
    > > >hard time of it. I stepped onto the scales and found that I had added
    20 pounds
    > > >over the winter eating my moms cooking! I started the atkins diet 2
    weeks ago
    > > >to loose the weight and try to get my energy back. Im really really
    wanting to
    > > >do some riding but im only allowed 20 carbs a day max. Would I be in
    danger of
    > > >bonking really fast if I went for a ride? Has anyone else tried this
    diet while
    > > >riding? BTW, I have lost 8 pounds in 2 weeks without exercise.
    > >
    > > boy, what a thread.....wasn't it the Greeks who mentioned moderation? whatever happened to
    > > balance? have carbs now been scapegoated to be the evil 'fattening' factor in our eating habits?
    > >
    >
    > Well we have two Indian resevers here with the highest rate of diabetes in North America. If it's
    > not due to having refined sugars introduced to them I would like to hear some other theorys.

    I suppose alcohol would count as a refined sugar?
     
  3. Rich Clark

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > >Road rage
    >
    > I prefer the term "traffic tantrum" as being more indicative of the level of maturity involved :)

    I get what you're saying, but somehow the phase "murderous tantrum" doesn't have quite the same
    ring to it.

    RichC
     
  4. Barry Gaudet

    Barry Gaudet Guest

    Rich Clark <[email protected]> wrote:

    : "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : news:[email protected]...

    :> >Road rage
    :>
    :> I prefer the term "traffic tantrum" as being more indicative of the level of maturity
    :> involved :)

    : I get what you're saying, but somehow the phase "murderous tantrum" doesn't have quite the same
    : ring to it.

    How about 'traffic idiot tantrum' or TIT for short? It's descriptive, catchy and doesn't stereotype
    by vehicle type.

    --
    'Philosophy, is the talk on a cereal box Religion, is the smile on a dog. Philosophy, is a
    walk on the slippery rocks Religion, is a light in the fog' -Edie Brickell
     
  5. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 14:24:12 -0400, "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> >Road rage

    >> I prefer the term "traffic tantrum" as being more indicative of the level of maturity
    >> involved :)

    >I get what you're saying, but somehow the phase "murderous tantrum" doesn't have quite the same
    >ring to it.

    Is it murderous according to the book, though? I see it more as reckless. Simply not giving a toss
    who you kill.

    But I take your point: it sounds less dangerous that "rage." I maintain, though, that "rage" sounds
    more excusable; couldn't be held accountable, big grown-up manly-man anger and so on, instead of
    just a spoilt child throwing their toys out of the pram.

    It's a bit like the people who buy an SUV because in a crash they would rather the other guy died,
    ignoring the fact that if they weren't driving an SUV (a) if both parties were driving vehicles
    conforming to passenger car safety standards the crash quite possibly wouldn't happen in the first
    place, (b) there may be no "other guy," just a single-vehicle rollover, and (c) if they were both
    driving passenger cars quite likely nobody would die anyway, as passenger cars not only have less
    kinetic energy (averaging over half a tonne less mass), they don't have high bumpers mounted to
    rigid chassis. Cagers are not noted for following a train of thought through to its logical
    conclusion.

    Or maybe that's just me being paranoid because my Volvo's in the shop and I have a Very Small Car as
    a loaner...

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  6. David Storm

    David Storm Guest

    "Dan Daniel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 14 Jun 2003 10:01:24 -0700, [email protected] (Matt J) wrote:
    >
    > >So I was riding today with a small (4 person group) when we hear a car honking behind us. I was
    > >in front, to the left and a little behind another guy, on a 30mph one-lane-each-way road. There
    > >were no cars ahead, a straight shot and dotted line. I come out to look back and see what the
    > >problem is with the car - I assume he's honking at us, despite ample passing room. After glancing
    > >back, I start to pull back behind my buddy. All of a sudden, this huge biker comes whizzing past,
    > >damn near hits me, and shoves my back - sending me right at my friend's rear wheel. I damn near
    > >skidded out locking up the tire to stop in time. After sprinting up to the offending biker and a
    > >"oh, excuse me, was I in your way back there," he responds with "Well the car was honking and you
    > >were coming out, what else can I do?" or something along those lines. My riding buddies were
    > >dumbfounded (one of them is relatively new to biking). They couldn't believe some guy would come
    > >up and touch - let alone PUSH - a biker into another. Had this guys simply cooled down and waited
    > >to pass us until the driver had passed, things would have been fine. Or, he could have simply
    > >kept passing rather than shove me aside. Or, oh my god, he could have slowed down a bit and
    > >ducked behind us until he could more safely pass. What is up with this? Matt
    >
    >
    > Road rage and bad driving are not limited to car drivers. Considering some of the rude and stupid
    > moves I see bicyclists make on a regular basis, I am convinced that the percentage of idiot
    > bicycle riders is much higher than the percentage of idiot car drivers. It's just that you can
    > usually get away with such stupidity for longer on a bicycle.
    >
    > And then there are the bicyclists who consider themselves above and beyond mere mortals. Like the
    > guy who came up behind me as I was crossing the Golden Gate Bridge. It was mid-day when the west
    > side for bicyclists was closed, so we were on the pedestrian side. A beautiful day, heading from
    > the south/SF tower toward the SF parking area. The sidewalk was full of people, tourists gawking
    > everywhere, not paying attention and not expecting something going 20 mph flying at them.
    > Obviously I am some simp who, in a situation like that, goes slow, lets pedestrians know that I am
    > there, etc. We are talking maybe 300 yards or less of foot traffic. But this guy comes flying up
    > to my back wheel , bumps me as he goes by (and I am on the road side, so if I go over I could fall
    > into oncoming traffic) and *then* decides to yell at me to get out of the way while he plows
    > through group after group of pedestrians.
    >
    > Some people should stay in their living room on rollers where they can be road warrior maximus to
    > their heart's content.

    I've also noted that behavior by some cyclists on the Golden Gate bridge. I'm from Sacramento and
    first thought that all S.F. cyclists must be that way, but that bridge just seems to be a magnet for
    bike riding jerks. I've had them come roaring up from behind as I was slowing or stopping for
    pedestrians shouting for me and the rest of the world to get out of their way.
     
  7. Hunrobe

    Hunrobe Guest

    >[email protected] (Matt J)

    wrote in part:

    >I come out to look back and see what the problem is with the car - I assume he's honking at us,
    >despite ample passing room. After glancing back, I start to pull back behind my buddy. All of a
    >sudden, this huge biker comes whizzing past, damn near hits me, and shoves my back - sending me
    >right at my friend's rear wheel

    Did you see that "huge biker" when you glanced back *before* you abandoned your line to check for a
    honking car? It sounds as if you didn't look because bicycles usually don't just appear "all of a
    sudden". If you didn't look, then shame on you. If you did look, then hopefully you'll look more
    closely in the future.

    Regards, Bob Hunt
     
  8. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:39:43 GMT, "David Storm" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >I've also noted that behavior by some cyclists on the Golden Gate bridge. I'm from Sacramento and
    >first thought that all S.F. cyclists must be that way, but that bridge just seems to be a magnet
    >for bike riding jerks. I've had them come roaring up from behind as I was slowing or stopping for
    >pedestrians shouting for me and the rest of the world to get out of their way.
    >
    >

    Yep. The first time I was ever in California was on a tour through the Northwest and down the coast
    in 1979.. In the whole trip I had no bad experiences with motorists. Until I got to Marin County.
    Someone spitting from a car window, a couple of cans thrown at us, people yelling obscenities. I
    couldn't figure it out.... until I moved here and saw what arrogant little twerps some of the
    bicyclists can be.

    Weekends I dread going over the Bridge, how ever much I want to get to the Headlands, etc. Idiot
    after idiot after idiot zipping around that tight curved path that leads up to the bike side. I pity
    the poor pedestrians who find themselves there by mistake. And the tourists who have rented a bike
    for a leisurely ride around the bay area.
     
  9. Matt J

    Matt J Guest

    Hunrobe wrote:
    > >[email protected] (Matt J)
    >
    > wrote in part:
    >
    > >I come out to look back and see what the problem is with the car - I assume he's honking at us,
    > >despite ample passing room. After glancing back, I start to pull back behind my buddy. All of a
    > >sudden, this huge biker comes whizzing past, damn near hits me, and shoves my back - sending me
    > >right at my friend's rear wheel
    >
    > Did you see that "huge biker" when you glanced back *before* you abandoned your line to check for
    > a honking car? It sounds as if you didn't look because bicycles usually don't just appear "all of
    > a sudden". If you didn't look, then shame on you. If you did look, then hopefully you'll look more
    > closely in the future.
    >
    > Regards, Bob Hunt

    I only glanced back briefly, and in doing so must have drifted out a little. It was only a split
    second that I was turned around, and he was going a bit faster than me. I didn't notice him - he
    could have been beside my riding buddies or simply in my peripheral vision. Either way, I posed him
    no danger and he could have easily gone around me, as I was barely off from the curb anyway. Matt
     
  10. On 14 Jun 2003 10:01:24 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc, [email protected] (Matt J) wrote:

    > After sprinting up to the offending biker and a "oh, excuse me, was I in your way back there," he
    > responds with "Well the car was honking and you were coming out, what else can I do?" or something
    > along those lines.

    you guys should have taught this idiot a little lesson since you outnumbered him.
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Guest

    "Hunrobe" wrote
    > Did you see that "huge biker" when you glanced back *before* you abandoned
    your
    > line to check for a honking car? It sounds as if you didn't look because bicycles usually don't
    > just appear "all of a sudden". If you didn't look,
    then
    > shame on you. If you did look, then hopefully you'll look more closely in
    the
    > future.
    >
    > Regards, Bob Hunt

    Funny, I've always felt that it was up to the person overtaking to make sure it was safe to do so.

    Based on the origninal poster's narative, the "huge biker" seems to have been moving quite a bit
    faster than the people he was passing, hence his appearance " all of a sudden".

    Regardless of how carefully the original poster was riding, perhaps the "huge rider" could have
    called out "on your left " to announce that he was overtaking, or maybe even waited until it was
    safe to overtake?
    --
    mark
     
  12. On 15 Jun 2003 18:11:27 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote:

    > Neither the OP nor the "huge biker" were 100% right or 100% wrong so what's so terrible about
    > saying just that?

    no, the overtaking biker was WRONG. he should only have passed when it was safe to do so AFTER
    announcing his presence.
     
  13. Garmonboezia

    Garmonboezia Guest

    [email protected] (Matt J) wrote in news:ce834354.0306140901.62199455 @posting.google.com:

    > So I was riding today with a small (4 person group) when we hear a car honking behind us. I was in
    > front, to the left and a little behind another guy, on a 30mph one-lane-each-way road. There were
    > no cars ahead, a straight shot and dotted line. I come out to look back and see what the problem
    > is with the car - I assume he's honking at us, despite ample passing room. After glancing back, I
    > start to pull back behind my buddy. All of a sudden, this huge biker comes whizzing past, damn
    > near hits me, and shoves my back - sending me right at my friend's rear wheel. I damn near skidded
    > out locking up the tire to stop in time. After sprinting up to the offending biker and a "oh,
    > excuse me, was I in your way back there," he responds with "Well the car was honking and you were
    > coming out, what else can I do?" or something along those lines. My riding buddies were
    > dumbfounded (one of them is relatively new to biking). They couldn't believe some guy would come
    > up and touch - let alone PUSH - a biker into another. Had this guys simply cooled down and waited
    > to pass us until the driver had passed, things would have been fine. Or, he could have simply kept
    > passing rather than shove me aside. Or, oh my god, he could have slowed down a bit and ducked
    > behind us until he could more safely pass. What is up with this? Matt

    "What else can I do." He could have eased off and waited, passing well out into the lane and away
    from you three. Or, if the traffic was too heavy for that, at least a "Heads up. Passing left."
    "Huge guy" had the advantage of seeing the whole situation which gave him choices. He chose wrong.
     
  14. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Hunrobe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > BTW, along with the duty to overtake safely we all have a duty to not
    change
    > our lateral position on the roadway unless we can do so safely. On a bike
    it's
    > called "holding your line". In a motor vehicle it's called "stay in your
    own
    > lane".

    How much, Bob? I figure I need a foot or so on each side for slight maneuvers, etc. To me, then,
    "holding my line" includes such margins. If I pass a stranger without notification, it's going to be
    several feet off the port side.

    The large rider passing to close without notice was the idiot. If this was a race, it'd be a
    different thing. If the guy passed me like that and put a hand on me, we'd be having a discussion.

    --
    Robin Hubert <[email protected]
     
  15. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Hunrobe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >[email protected] (Dennis P. Harris)
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    > >no, the overtaking biker was WRONG. he should only have passed when it was safe to do so AFTER
    > >announcing his presence.
    >
    > I didn't say the overtaking biker was right, just that both riders made mistakes. As for requiring
    > an overtaking rider to announce his presence
    before
    > passing on the street, that's just plain silly. Carrying that line of
    reasoning
    > to its logical conclusion, every car that ever passes another user of the
    road
    > should honk before doing so.

    No, Bob, that is not a logical conclusion. The vehicle passing should've left a reasonable amount of
    room between him and the passee. See my other post.

    --
    Robin Hubert <[email protected]>

    >
    > Regards, Bob Hunt
     
  16. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Hunrobe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    >> BTW, along with the duty to overtake safely we all have a duty to not
    >change
    >> our lateral position on the roadway unless we can do so safely. On a bike
    >it's
    >> called "holding your line". In a motor vehicle it's called "stay in your
    >own
    >> lane".
    >
    >How much, Bob? I figure I need a foot or so on each side for slight maneuvers, etc. To me, then,
    >"holding my line" includes such margins. If I pass a stranger without notification, it's going to
    >be several feet off the port side.
    >
    >The large rider passing to close without notice was the idiot. If this was a race, it'd be a
    >different thing. If the guy passed me like that and put a hand on me, we'd be having a discussion.

    I was about to type the same thing Bob Hunt did. The way I envision this scene was that the "big
    biker" was going considerably faster than the group of four the OP was in. He pulled out to pass
    (possibly leaving plenty of room), when some idiot in an overtaking car laid on the horn.

    Now committed to the pass (and probably beside one or two other riders), the "big rider" moves
    slightly to the right to give the honking car a bit more room. About the same time, the OP starts
    drifting to the left.

    And here's the root of the issue to me - it's very common in most experienced packs for one rider to
    announce his or her presence with a hand on the shoulder, or to arrest a bad move just like the "big
    rider" did. There are no points off for physical contact - nothing sacred about our position in the
    pack that isn't subject to a nudge now and then.

    To me, it sounds like the "big biker" was probably a very experienced rider (noting his higher speed
    and lack of hesitation for moving the OP back into line), and the OP is probaby not a very
    experienced pack rider. Also, there's no reason for the "big rider" to believe the OP did NOT see
    him, having just looked over his shoulder.

    Of course, I wasn't there, and I'm supposing a lot - but the above scenario could certainly explain
    what happened without making out the "big rider" to be a homicidal maniac. ;-)

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  17. Ray Heindl

    Ray Heindl Guest

    [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote:

    >>[email protected] (Dennis P. Harris)
    > wrote:
    >
    >>no, the overtaking biker was WRONG. he should only have passed when it was safe to do so AFTER
    >>announcing his presence.
    >
    > I didn't say the overtaking biker was right, just that both riders made mistakes. As for requiring
    > an overtaking rider to announce his presence before passing on the street, that's just plain
    > silly. Carrying that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, every car that ever passes
    > another user of the road should honk before doing so.

    Silly or not, it's required by law in Ohio: "The operator of a vehicle or trackless trolley
    overtaking another vehicle or trackless trolley proceeding in the same direction shall, except as
    provided in division (C) [i.e. on divided highways and roads of 4 or more lanes] of this section,
    signal to the vehicle or trackless trolley to be overtaken, shall pass to the left thereof at a safe
    distance, and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the
    overtaken vehicle or trackless trolley." (Ohio revised code, 4511.27(A))

    It doesn't say what constitutes a "signal", but a later section implies that it's an *audible*
    signal. Fortunately, no drivers pay attention to this section.

    --
    Ray Heindl (remove the X to reply)
     
  18. Matt J

    Matt J Guest

    Mark Hickey wrote <snip>
    > And here's the root of the issue to me - it's very common in most experienced packs for one rider
    > to announce his or her presence with a hand on the shoulder, or to arrest a bad move just like the
    > "big rider" did. There are no points off for physical contact - nothing sacred about our position
    > in the pack that isn't subject to a nudge now and then.
    I have ridden in packs a bit - not a whole lot but enough to be comfortable at close quarters. Had
    he simply laid a hand on my shoulder or something, I would have been a little startled, but not
    overly pissed off. However, this was an all out shove in the small of my back, sent me a couple mph
    faster and to the right, into my friend's rear wheel. Fortunately, I was in the hoods and could grab
    the brakes in time (the rear wheel skidded and almost fishtailed). If anyone did that in a paceline
    it would be a disaster.

    > To me, it sounds like the "big biker" was probably a very experienced rider (noting his higher
    > speed and lack of hesitation for moving the OP back into line), and the OP is probaby not a very
    > experienced pack rider. Also, there's no reason for the "big rider" to believe the OP did NOT see
    > him, having just looked over his shoulder.
    I don't know why I didn't see him - I suppose because I glanced back only briefly and saw the car
    out of the peripheral vision, the bikes were farther to the right on the road.
    > Of course, I wasn't there, and I'm supposing a lot - but the above scenario could certainly
    > explain what happened without making out the "big rider" to be a homicidal maniac. ;-)
    Don't know I'd call him a homicidal maniac, but an asshole certainly. As I said before the
    (seasoned) riders I was with all thought it was outrageous. Matt
     
  19. Harris

    Harris Guest

    Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The way I envision this scene was that the "big biker" was going considerably faster than the
    > group of four the OP was in. He pulled out to pass (possibly leaving plenty of room), when some
    > idiot in an overtaking car laid on the horn.

    I don't buy it. If the "big biker" was so experienced, he should have checked for overtaking traffic
    before passing.

    Art Harris
     
  20. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    Harris <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> The way I envision this scene was that the "big biker" was going considerably faster than the
    >> group of four the OP was in. He pulled out to pass (possibly leaving plenty of room), when some
    >> idiot in an overtaking car laid on the horn.
    >
    >I don't buy it. If the "big biker" was so experienced, he should have checked for overtaking
    >traffic before passing.

    We don't know that the overtaking car was really an issue, or if the driver was just laying on the
    horn out of general indignation (from way back). Even so, going two wide with cars passing isn't
    always that big a deal - most every group ride ends up having to do that many times in the normal
    course of the ride.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
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