Creating a new cycle club



"raisethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 14 Nov, 17:45, David Damerell <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Quoting raisethe <[email protected]>:
>>
>> >How do any of your responses justify the ctc in having an anti
>> >motorcycling policy?

>>
>> Ah, so you object to what the CTC says not because it isn't true, but
>> because you'd like to keep it quiet?
>>
>> This is based on the persecution fantasy you have, though, which is that
>> the CTC is inherently opposed to motorcycles. That simply isn't the case;
>> the CTC is opposed to motorcycles being allowed to use advance stop
>> boxes,
>> and it is quite right to point out, for example, that motorcycles pollute
>> heavily and encouraging people to switch from cars to motorcycles isn't
>> actually going to do much good.
>>
>> I do expect the CTC to try and campaign to discourage the needless use of
>> private motor transport. Private motor transport is most of the
>> unpleasantness in cycling.
>>

>
>
>
> You say it is a 'fantasy' that the CTC is opposed to motorcycles
> despite the fact that:
> 1) I posted a link which shows they are opposed to motorcycles, and
> 2) You go on to say that CTC should be opposed to virtually all
> private motorcycle journies.
>
> Can you explain both apparent inconsistencies in your position?
>
> For me, the roads are for all, and it would be better for cyclists to
> accept that integration with MVs is desirable rather than seeing them
> as simply the enemy.


dear raisethe, you've seen fit not to reply to my earlier post, so perhaps
you missed it, and just in case, here it is again:

"> How do any of your responses justify the ctc in having an anti
> motorcycling policy? I cannot see your logic here. Should ctc campaign
> against climbers because they are a danger to themselves? Should ctc
> campaign against dirty Chinese factories? Should ctc campaign against
> pedestrians in case people choose to walk instead of cycle?


Dear raisethe, I've asked once and you didn't respond, and I'll ask just
once more before I consign you to the bin labelled "wan*er". Please post
some evidence that the CTC is anti-motorcycling. That's evidence, not your
prejudices."

Instead of asking irrelevant questions, perhaps you could answer the above.
Or perhaps not. Perhaps you're just the paranoid, guilt-ridden motorcyclist
that you really do seem to be.

>
 
Quoting raisethe <[email protected]>:
>On 14 Nov, 17:45, David Damerell <[email protected]>
>>This is based on the persecution fantasy you have, though, which is that
>>the CTC is inherently opposed to motorcycles.

> You say it is a 'fantasy' that the CTC is opposed to motorcycles
>despite the fact that:
>1) I posted a link which shows they are opposed to motorcycles, and


Well, no, it doesn't, unless you've got that persecution fantasy.

>2) You go on to say that CTC should be opposed to virtually all
>private motorcycle journies.


It may surprise you to learn that I have not yet perfected my mind control
ray and as such the CTC is not compelled to adopt my position on every
issue.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, November.
 
David Damerell wrote:
>
> >1) I posted a link which shows they are opposed to motorcycles, and

>
> Well, no, it doesn't, unless you've got that persecution fantasy.



"We believe that, in addition to the risks which motorcycles and other
Powered Two Wheelers (PTWs) pose to their riders, policy decisions in
relation to motorcycling also need to reflect the threat which
motorcycling poses to other road users and to the environment. "

That is not a fantasy, that is copied from my link posted earlier
which you presumably have not read.


http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4790

>
> >2) You go on to say that CTC should be opposed to virtually all
> >private motorcycle journies.

>
> It may surprise you to learn that I have not yet perfected my mind control
> ray and as such the CTC is not compelled to adopt my position on every
> issue.
>.



Fair enough. I believe you are wrong. If you want to arbitrarily ban
private motor vehicles, others (and there are more of them) may choose
to ban bicycles.

Who do you think will win?
 
In article <ab6457d2-84a3-48ac-88f4-
[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>
> David Damerell wrote:
> >
> > >1) I posted a link which shows they are opposed to motorcycles, and

> >
> > Well, no, it doesn't, unless you've got that persecution fantasy.

>
>
> "We believe that, in addition to the risks which motorcycles and other
> Powered Two Wheelers (PTWs) pose to their riders, policy decisions in
> relation to motorcycling also need to reflect the threat which
> motorcycling poses to other road users and to the environment. "
>
> That is not a fantasy, that is copied from my link posted earlier
> which you presumably have not read.
>


And the Government is anti-aviation on that basis:

"People living near airports have to live with the immediate effects of
aircraft noise, air quality problems and increased congestion on local
roads. Urbanisation sometimes associated with airport development can
also have adverse impacts on landscape and habitats. Information in this
section highlights the actions that can be taken to alleviate and
control these adverse effects."
Source: DfT

--
Tony

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has
taken place"
George Bernard Shaw
 
"raisethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> David Damerell wrote:
>>
>> >1) I posted a link which shows they are opposed to motorcycles, and

>>
>> Well, no, it doesn't, unless you've got that persecution fantasy.

>
>
> "We believe that, in addition to the risks which motorcycles and other
> Powered Two Wheelers (PTWs) pose to their riders, policy decisions in
> relation to motorcycling also need to reflect the threat which
> motorcycling poses to other road users and to the environment. "
>
> That is not a fantasy, that is copied from my link posted earlier
> which you presumably have not read.
>


Paranoid.
 
Tony Raven wrote:
>> And the Government is anti-aviation on that basis:

>
> "People living near airports have to live with the immediate effects of
> aircraft noise, air quality problems and increased congestion on local
> roads. Urbanisation sometimes associated with airport development can
> also have adverse impacts on landscape and habitats. Information in this
> section highlights the actions that can be taken to alleviate and
> control these adverse effects."
> Source: DfT
>




No, the government supports aviation for its economic benefits, but
here is trying to contol the bad effects of its expansion.

CTC is politically opposed to motorcycles, (for reasons which are
nothing to do with them), whilst accepting that there is some
significant common ground.

The two scenarios are therefore opposite to each other.
 
"raisethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bcd74d96-82f1-4582-bdc1-84e3807759f5@i37g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Tony Raven wrote:
>>> And the Government is anti-aviation on that basis:

>>
>> "People living near airports have to live with the immediate effects of
>> aircraft noise, air quality problems and increased congestion on local
>> roads. Urbanisation sometimes associated with airport development can
>> also have adverse impacts on landscape and habitats. Information in this
>> section highlights the actions that can be taken to alleviate and
>> control these adverse effects."
>> Source: DfT
>>

>
>
>
> No, the government supports aviation for its economic benefits, but
> here is trying to contol the bad effects of its expansion.
>
> CTC is politically opposed to motorcycles, (for reasons which are
> nothing to do with them), whilst accepting that there is some
> significant common ground.
>
> The two scenarios are therefore opposite to each other.


Paranoid
 
Quoting raisethe <[email protected]>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>>1) I posted a link which shows they are opposed to motorcycles, and

>>Well, no, it doesn't, unless you've got that persecution fantasy.

>"We believe that, in addition to the risks which motorcycles and other
>Powered Two Wheelers (PTWs) pose to their riders, policy decisions in
>relation to motorcycling also need to reflect the threat which
>motorcycling poses to other road users and to the environment. "


ie, policy decisions with relation to motorcycling need to reflect the
truth. That's not anti-motorcycling; that's pro-truth.

Essentially what you're complaining about here is that the CTC has an
opinion about other road users. That's ridiculous.

>>It may surprise you to learn that I have not yet perfected my mind control
>>ray and as such the CTC is not compelled to adopt my position on every
>>issue.

>Fair enough. I believe you are wrong. If you want to arbitrarily ban
>private motor vehicles, others (and there are more of them) may choose
>to ban bicycles.


That does not mean that a reduction in private motor transport would not
be a good thing and that a reduction in bicycle use would be a bad thing,
and that it is sensible for campaigning groups to emphasise the reasons
why that is the case.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, November.
 
In article <bcd74d96-82f1-4582-bdc1-84e3807759f5
@i37g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> No, the government supports aviation for its economic benefits, but
> here is trying to contol the bad effects of its expansion.
>
> CTC is politically opposed to motorcycles, (for reasons which are
> nothing to do with them), whilst accepting that there is some
> significant common ground.


'sfunny then that they say "We should make it clear that CTC's stance is
not "anti-motorcyclist" - indeed many of our members (and indeed our
staff) are themselves motorcyclists."
http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/0606_RG_PTWs_brf.doc

--
Tony

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has
taken place"
George Bernard Shaw
 
Tony Raven wrote:
> > 'sfunny then that they say "We should make it clear that CTC's stance is

> not "anti-motorcyclist" - indeed many of our members (and indeed our
> staff) are themselves motorcyclists."
>




Yes it is. They say they are not anti-motorcyclist and then go on to
list their anti-motorcyclist policies. They are a joke.
 
"raisethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a903061e-bb81-47c7-9722-d381bda10690@w73g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> > 'sfunny then that they say "We should make it clear that CTC's stance
>> > is

>> not "anti-motorcyclist" - indeed many of our members (and indeed our
>> staff) are themselves motorcyclists."
>>

>
>
>
> Yes it is. They say they are not anti-motorcyclist and then go on to
> list their anti-motorcyclist policies. They are a joke.


So post a couple then.

Or forever be know as Paranoid.
 
David Damerell wrote:
> > ie, policy decisions with relation to motorcycling need to reflect the

> truth. That's not anti-motorcycling; that's pro-truth.
>
> Essentially what you're complaining about here is that the CTC has an
> opinion about other road users. That's ridiculous.
>
> That does not mean that a reduction in private motor transport would not
> be a good thing and that a reduction in bicycle use would be a bad thing,
> and that it is sensible for campaigning groups to emphasise the reasons
> why that is the case.
> --
>


Okay have it your way, but then the Cyclists Touring Club should
change its name to the Anti Motor Vehicle, Environmentalist, Save the
Mad Motorbiker From Himself, Bicycle Use Reduction Club.

I still wouldn't renew my membership.
 
Quoting raisethe <[email protected]>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>That does not mean that a reduction in private motor transport would not
>>be a good thing and that a reduction in bicycle use would be a bad thing,
>>and that it is sensible for campaigning groups to emphasise the reasons
>>why that is the case.

>Okay have it your way, but then the Cyclists Touring Club should
>change its name to the Anti Motor Vehicle, Environmentalist, Save the
>Mad Motorbiker From Himself, Bicycle Use Reduction Club.


In your persecution fantasy, maybe.

>I still wouldn't renew my membership.


In that case, why should they care what you think?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Tuesday, November.
 
x-no-archive:On 16 Nov, 15:47, David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >I still wouldn't renew my membership.

>
> In that case, why should they care what you think?
> --
>


It appears to be more of a revenue generating organisation than one
which is primarily of use to touring cyclists. As more people become
aware of what they are up to, fewer proper touring cyclists will
remain members, and their raison d'etre will disappear.

Hopefully they won't get taken over by fundamentalists like the
Rambler's Association, but time will tell.
 
"raisethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b8a826bd-d87c-49de-9aa7-b042bf9bf45b@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive:On 16 Nov, 15:47, David Damerell
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >I still wouldn't renew my membership.

>>
>> In that case, why should they care what you think?
>> --
>>

>
> It appears to be more of a revenue generating organisation than one
> which is primarily of use to touring cyclists. As more people become
> aware of what they are up to, fewer proper touring cyclists will
> remain members, and their raison d'etre will disappear.
>
> Hopefully they won't get taken over by fundamentalists like the
> Rambler's Association, but time will tell.


Paranoid.
 
"raisethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> David Damerell wrote:
>> > ie, policy decisions with relation to motorcycling need to reflect the

>> truth. That's not anti-motorcycling; that's pro-truth.
>>
>> Essentially what you're complaining about here is that the CTC has an
>> opinion about other road users. That's ridiculous.
>>
>> That does not mean that a reduction in private motor transport would not
>> be a good thing and that a reduction in bicycle use would be a bad thing,
>> and that it is sensible for campaigning groups to emphasise the reasons
>> why that is the case.
>> --
>>

>
> Okay have it your way, but then the Cyclists Touring Club should
> change its name to the Anti Motor Vehicle, Environmentalist, Save the
> Mad Motorbiker From Himself, Bicycle Use Reduction Club.
>
> I still wouldn't renew my membership.


Hey, Paranoid aka raisethe, ok, so you can't post a single instance of the
CTC being anti-motorcycle. Tell you what kid, just post your CTC membership
number, so that we know you're not bullshitting us when you claim to be a
member.

You Paranoid troll FW.
 
Quoting raisethe <[email protected]>:
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>I still wouldn't renew my membership.

>>In that case, why should they care what you think?

>It appears to be more of a revenue generating organisation than one
>which is primarily of use to touring cyclists.


A "revenue generating" organisation, how terrible! Obviously a campaigning
group works most effectively if it doesn't have any revenue because, er...

It's been some years since it was the Cyclists' Touring Club, and over a
century since the CTC started campaigning against the encroachment of
motor vehicles. That it's not a pure touring organisation is old news, and
that it campaigns against the evils of motoring - that started before you
joined, before you were born, and before your parents were born, so you
can hardly complain that it was a surprise.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Friday, November.