Creating Endurance--Power levels

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by woodworker, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. woodworker

    woodworker New Member

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    First time posting here, but I've been following the advice in the forums for over a year using my power meter. In particular, I want to thank davery and rapdaddyo for their contributions to the forum. I read through most of the SillyOldTwit thread and found it very helpful.

    Background: I have a powertap, and I've been doing hill climbs, as they are best for the intervals that I want to do--mostly 2X20's or 6X8's. My power has gone up, and I notice that I can keep up with some pretty good recreational riders on most of the climbs for a while but then don't have the stamina to keep up on longer climbs. An example: I can do an eight minute 5-6% grade at over 300 watts NP (roughly 1.5 miles) but if I'm doing a 10 mile climb that lasts an hour, I fall way back. ...so I'm looking to increase my endurance.

    Advice from one friend is to do lot's of base miles this winter at below 200 watts (ftp of around 258), mixing in the occasional intervals, although I had planned on going harder and continuing with intervals three to four times per week.

    Supporting my friend's advice was a video that I saw on another forum: http://www.canal-insep.fr/fr/training-periodization-deep-root-cultural-heritage-and-innovative-paradigms-2013/ei_13_10_va_pr_stephen_seiler-mov [you may need to cut and paste to see it]

    The speaker discusses a number of pretty compelling studies of elite athletes, showing that they do a lot of very low intensity training and a small amount of high intensity training with very little in the middle.

    The main problem (aside from the fact that I'm not genetically elite) is that time constraints do not permit me to do a lot of low intensity training (kids, job, etc).

    Any thoughts on training--balance between base miles and FTP intervals? If I'm training four days per week, would you recommend all long rides, 2 long and 2 hard interval days, or some other mix--at least for the winter months? Any thoughts on interval lengths?

    By the way, my goal is not racing but rather to increase my stamina on longer climbs and rides. Put in power terms, I need the same power if I could keep it for longer durations.

    Thanks.
     
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  2. cyclightning

    cyclightning New Member

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    Hi,

    these forums have quietened down a lot recently,

    Probably should go with aerobic endurance training at 150-195 watts and intervals (2-5 minutes x2 or x3) 1-2 times per week but only at 85-90% of max intensity (overall) for the training ride. Problem is this is difficult to determine with little experience and changing FTP (if it increases significantly). Occasionally go for a higher interval intensity. Make sure you drop back to <150 W for recovery and depending on how you feel might want to cut recovery to 100 W or so.

    2x20's as a standalone workout are very tough so it's not recommended to go over 90-93% of max work rate. Pushing near max (93-100%) can't be sustained for maybe more than 1-2 weeks.

    If as you say you are not training for racing, then cut back the intensity even more <85% max on the intervals and try and get a 3-4 hr training period and try and hold 120-130 watts (less trained cyclists might have trouble holding the lower end of aerobic power for 3-4 hrs).
     
  3. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Quote: 2x20's as a standalone workout are very tough so it's not recommended to go over 90-93% of max work rate. Pushing near max (93-100%) can't be sustained for maybe more than 1-2 weeks.


    ??

    My typical build is 2 x 20 @ ~100% of FTP 2x/wk for 12 wk.
     
  4. cyclightning

    cyclightning New Member

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    Greetings Coggan,

    Wow. I don't think that's typical.
     
  5. pedalbiker

    pedalbiker New Member

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    Definitely not something I could do in a normal training week. I usually shoot for 95% threshold for various lengths (10-30mins depending on the feel of that day).

    I'll do that once or twice a week. Don't think I've ever done 2x20. They're just numbers, and not numbers I find particularly relevant to anything I do. As long as I'm getting in some longer efforts at an intensity close to threshold, then I feel like I'm getting things done and I start seeing fitness gains.
     
  6. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    You are not an elite athlete. It is important to determine what type of training helps you.

    The most basic question is: When you are hill climbing, do your muscles fail you or does your cardiovascular system fail you. The answer may indicate what type of training is best.

    Training is the key. You don't just start out doing 2x20 at 100% every day. You work up to it.

    It is winter. I do 30 minutes at 95+% everyday on my trainer. If I were training with a purpose, I would toss in a second similar effort later in the day. Over time I would either add more efforts each day or do them with short breaks beween them.

    The purpose of these short efforts is to build up my cardiovascular system. (My last effort had 20 minutes with my heart rate at/above my LT.)
     
  7. dkrenik

    dkrenik Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. I trade a little intensity for more volume by doing 1x45 at 90%+/- of FTP for 3-5 days/week (depending on the weather...)
     
  8. woodworker

    woodworker New Member

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    Thanks for the responses.

    I saw this from acoggan, whose book I read when I started with the powermeter around a year ago: "My typical build is 2 x 20 @ ~100% of FTP 2x/wk for 12 wk."

    I can do this, as there is a hill nearby without stops that runs at around 8% for three miles. For me, an FTP workout takes around 20 minutes. Doing that hill 2x per week is feasible. What else--one or two easier, longer rides at L2 - L3?

    Old Guy posted this: "The most basic question is: When you are hill climbing, do your muscles fail you or does your cardiovascular system fail you. The answer may indicate what type of training is best."

    Seems to be the former that fails me--the legs just tire out after an roughly an hour and a half of hard climbing (and I've been working on upping my cadence).

    Thanks again.
     
  9. westmixxin

    westmixxin New Member

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    Creating endurance is a difficult task as an uphill battle to be honest with you and eventually once you created you actually feel empowered because you feel like there's nothing that you can't do because you can last so long against the elements. You can run for more than three hours or you could ride your bike for more than four hours you put yourself in the position to truly have real Endurance
     
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