Crit Breakaway Tactics

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by gnd46, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    The only "you didn't work, so don't sprint" situation which I would consider valid is where you contribute to the best of your ability for a while, but get to the point where you can only hang on and the other riders extend the courtesy of riding at an even tempo in order to keep you hooked up rather than dropping you. If this is done in an effort to tow you to the finish with the break instead of being swept up by the pack as a reward for your contributions, then I would agree that it's faux pas to sprint at the end, even if you do manage to pick up a second wind during all the rest time.

    If you find yourself in the "I can't work anymore, I'm just trying to hang on" situation, it might be wise to verbally concede the sprint to the other riders in hopes of not being attacked and dropped in your moment of weakness. Last place in the break is still better than falling back to the pack.
     


  2. TJIA

    TJIA New Member

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    If anyone intentionally "brake checked" me in an effort to make me crash I'd have words with them. If someone had the nerve to swing a frame pump I would not hesitate to pound them into the asphalt on general principle. If your race plan is disrupted by a lesser rider, get your ego in check and get over it.

    Intent to cause a lesser rider (or any rider, for that matter) to crash due to not playing along with your race strategy is childish. Intentional brake checking and the idea of a frame pump being put to use is, in my book, grounds for a few repeated fist-to-face meetings. The moment you intentionally try to inflict harm on me you can expect your efforts to be returned tenfold.
     
  3. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    While that behavior is childish, causing people to feel a need to swing a frame pump is also childish.

    I know several ex-racers who quit racing because the other racers were childish. Those ex-racers now ride hard and fast on weekend rides - where everyone is friendly.
     
  4. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    http://www.insidecyclingtv.com/videos/129/dana-point-grand-prix

    One year anniversary of this bullsh!t executed by Jake Keough. Sure lucky it was a nice guy like Rahsaan Bahati he pulled this stunt on. Bahati only threw a pair of glasses...can only imagine what I would've thrown.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
     
  5. TJIA

    TJIA New Member

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    "causing people to feel a need to swing a frame pump is also childish"?

    Not when you're an inexperienced racer.
     
  6. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Remind everyone of the antics of Bahati the few laps prior to that incident as they're rather pertinent to what went on there...
     
  7. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Excuse making is your job - lest you forget.

    Anonomous little person who doesn't even ride a bike, there's no excuse for Keough's actions - whatever good ol' boy political BS, after-the-fact, make up some more BS of an excuse/reason/rationalization/justification...simple fact of the matter is - whatever you choose to believe Bahati did or didn't do, the one thing for sure is he (Bahati) didn't cause a wreck. Period. Now go out and ride your bike - if you can...oh that's right, you have an excuse why you can't - sorry about that...
     
  8. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Tony, Nice that you stayed true to form. Couldn't answer that question because the truth hurts and had to change topic... Bahatti was riding like an as$hat trying to break up the attempts of a couple of teams to organize a chase despite not having someone up front to block for... What comes around goes around - you try and bump into the paceline and eventually you'll get bumped back. He got bumped and fell off and complained like a puss.
     
  9. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ What more could you expect from a true story-teller? Again, no proof, no verification - just a bunch of hot air.

    Nevertheless, I'd love for you or anyone else to pull that stunt on me.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

    edit: oops, sorry about, forgot you can't even ride a bike, let alone race a bike - definitely wouldn't have to be concerned about you pulling a Keough...
     
  10. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    So Bahatti was being a jerk to some of the teams and Keough responded by.....TAKING DOWN A THIRD OF THE FIELD IN AN INTENTIONAL MOVE... yeah that's an appropriate response and it sure showed those jerks that had the gall to actually ride the race and had the nerve to be behind the leadout teams. Did you see the size of that pileup, any idea how many broken bikes and bodies resulted amongst racers who's only involvement in the alleged a$$hat tactics was being on the same course at the same time?

    Keough should have earned a suspension for that move, regardless of what Bahati had done on previous laps you can't just take take down the field when you're pissed off.
     
  11. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Dave, this is equivocal - at best. I've seen interviews of racers on both sides of the fence regarding Bahati before Keough caused the wreck. Regardless, as you and I've stated (quite clearly I might add) NOTHING possibly done beforehand justifies Keough.

    It's so simple for rational people: logic + reason > emotion + instinct, or put another way: maturity > immaturity. Perhaps the little person can get his head around it some time in the near future - I seriously doubt it and won't be holding my breath..
     
  12. quenya

    quenya New Member

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    I watched some teammates in the masters 123 group Sunday. A breakaway formed with 3 riders from SPOC (local CA team) and 2 safeway guys. My team Momentum was not in the break, when a 3rd safeway rider bridged towing teammate and uber sprinter Shaun up to the break. The safeway riders started attacking and counterattacking the break a lot and Shaun had to fight hard to keep things together, SPOC played well doing only enough to keep Shaun working and attacking when they could. This break was away and gaining that with a few laps to go the peloton was pulled... End result? Shaun won the sprint by several bike lengths. I asked him about it and he said when he was pulling he was working but only about 70%, watching him he certainly looked like he was working hard and he no doubt contributed but even when pressed into working he played to his strengths sprinting and evidently acting.
     
  13. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ That's a nice story, but just so I don't misinterpret the moral behind this anecdote, please share the point you are attempting to get across in sharing this with the world as it pertains to the discussions contained in this thread...Furthermore, I suppose it should go without saying that the others in the break took Shaun out for beers and steak after the race because he's such a great guy. No? Then if I was Shaun, I'd be pissed...
     
  14. quenya

    quenya New Member

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    Tony, I'm not sure where I lost you. The situation is that my teammate was pulled into the breakaway by a rider from a team already in the break. The break then had 3 safeway guys, 3 SPOC guys, and 1 momentum guy Shaun. Shaun was isolated and attacked constantly, he had to fight to stay in the break and keep the break together (at least not let anyone off the front) which he did. And, he was rewarded with an awesome victory. Moral of the story is; if you're the sprinter in the breakaway, work just hard enough to keep your place but not so hard that you can't put in your best effort to the finish line. As this is a sustainable tactic that will work through all the cats without earning you too much negative attention. Corollary; if you're the breakaway guy but not a sprinter (me) do what it takes to drop the sprinter in the break or be content with 2nd place. Interesting aside, the rider who bridged the gap towing Shaun is a long time riva,l and it took a little pleading from our team's sponsor to keep Shaun from giving him 20$ out of his winnings...
     
  15. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    This anecdote just keeps getting better and better - what with Shaun ready give away some of his winnings to a long time rival. LOL! Must say that's the first time I've EVER heard of that. Teammates, of course, but rivals? Okay, whatever...

    Anyway, as I'm sure you've deduced over the past several months I'm a little bit slower on the uptake than the average bear. As such, I was interested in hearing from you why this story was significant in the context of the discussion on the this thread. Keep in mind though that every story you can relate regarding a sprinter working to help a break succeed and then still finishing off the deal, I can relate a story of sprinter sitting on in a break, getting crap from the others members in the break, still finishing off the deal, and everyone going home without mud being slung at the better tactician.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

    Tactics can be played any number of ways - some of them you may appreciate, some of them you won't. As long as it's nothing close to a "Keough" move, then I'm okay with tactics. Fact of the matter is, I just don't really care if I'm not making friends while I'm racing - afterall, I'm racing. When I'm training, then of course I do my share of the work in a paceline. But a race is a race is a race - and may the better man (or tactician) win...
     
  16. climber_80

    climber_80 New Member

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    Well it kinda depends on how im feeling and since i don't have any teammates with me i'd ride tactically and keep a good watch. I'd work with the other guys but i wouldnt go flat out cause i'm sure as soon as our breakaway is safe the teams with 2 guys would start attacking. In that case i'd let one of them get ahead and then attack on the hardest section of the course and try to bridge the gap to the guy up front. I know its dangerous cause i could drag another dude with me but i think that would be my best bet cause like this i could try to get rid of the teams with more than one rider. (Best chance for me would be a hill or mountain)
     
  17. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    The point that he put across very well, but you completely failed to notice is one that pertains to a very basic tactic and it fits in very well in this thread.

    If you're going well and want to save a bit for the finish you make it look like you're pulling for all you're worth but in fact you're close but not quite at that effort. You still take your turns but you make it look like you're at your limit. It's a game that pretty much every sprinter on the planet knows.

    Conversely, if you're smashed out of your head make an effort to try to fool the others by not rocking the shoulders, sagging your head and try to keep looking smooth.

    It's like poker - but played at, or above, threshold. As proven and mentioned countless times by Hunter/Coggan via powermeters, it's most often the guy who does the least that wins given a field of fairly equal ability.
     
  18. quenya

    quenya New Member

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    Tony, the title of the thread is something along the lines of crit breakaway tactics, so I posted about a teammate sprinter winning in a breakaway, what's the problem. It seems much more topical than some of the posts above ( mine included). I'm not saying that a sprinter needs to work in a break, Shaun said specifically when he was working it was at 70%. But, the teams were attacking Shaun not really eachother sitting in would not have worked. For the record I have no problem with a sprinter sitting in all day and taking the win, i race crits almost solely to support my team's sprinters. I'm more than happy to bury myself so that they can win in their fashion. But, in a break I won't drag a wheelsucker all day to be pinched at the line, if you're not working I'm either going to drop you or sit up and sit on your wheel and rest until the pack catches us, in a crit my attack is a tactic to allow guys to save their strength while other teams have to work. As far as the 'sharing' of the winnings... Perhaps the insult is too subtle, but understand that that gesture would have been very ill received.
     
  19. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Well, this input coming from non-racer is entirely devoid of credibility or perspective...always nice to talk a good game...

    And to put the record straight for the anonomous little person, I understood fully the message in the anecdote (incredibly timely, I might add - but just coincidence, of course). Just requested a verbatim explanation for effect, to which he provided and the anonomous little person I compelled to jump upon...
     
  20. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    I think you're belaboring the point (I'm sorry for inducing this), so I'm going to end my input in this discussion by saying, "Don't hate the player, hate the game." Check the emotions at the starting line and pick them up at the finish line...
     
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