Critical Mass Tunnel F*cks



On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:40:49 +0000, Jack Dingler wrote:

> Hehe, no. I was hit from behind by a driver that was doing 80 and didn't
> see that traffic had stopped.



I don't believe that. You hita bicyclist

Ruben
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:10:39 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>> Can you cite the source of your quotation of Kerry?
>>>
>>> Which quotation? This one?

>>
>>No, Ken. The "Bonjour" quote.

>
>
> I think he's referring to the fact that Kerry is widely travelled and
> bilingual, whereas Shrub can barely manage English and at election had
> never been outside the USA and Mexico ;-)
>
> Guy


You're pretty charitable, Guy.
Wrong place, wrong time--hey, wasn't that Dr. (Mack Rebenack) John?

Steve
 
Ken [NY) wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:10:39 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> <[email protected]> claims:
>
>
>>Ken [NY) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:27:06 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
>>><[email protected]> claims:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ken [NY) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good day. Or as John Kerry would say, Bonjour.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ken (NY)
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Ken--
>>>>
>>>> Can you cite the source of your quotation of Kerry?
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> Which quotation? This one?

>>
>>No, Ken. The "Bonjour" quote.

>
>
> That's not a quote, it's giving Kerry credit for being fluent
> in a second language. Like I give Bush credit for being fluent in
> Spanish.
>
> "Today, Kerry speaks fluent French, decent Spanish and smatterings of
> Latin, Italian, German and Vietnamese. He has relatives in France and
> England."



Why, thank you, Ken!
A bientot,
Steve

> http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-07-26-kerry-world-view_x.htm
>
>
>
>
> Good morning. Or as John Kerry would say, Bonjour.
>
> Ken (NY)
>
> "I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when
> the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact
> that we did disarm him."
> --John F. Kerry (ABC News, 5/4/03)
>
> "I thought that John Kerry’s statement in his announcement
> address, that he voted for the resolution just to threaten
> Saddam Hussein, was unbelievable. It was clearly an authorization
> for President Bush to use force against Saddam. We don’t
> need a waffler in charge of our country’s future."
> --Senator Joe Lieberman
>
> email:
> http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm
>
> spammers can send mail to [email protected]
 
"Ruben Safir" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 04:12:17 +0000, Pete wrote:
>
> > Often, but not *always*.
> > Dark sweatshirt, jeans, no lights, no reflectors, riding against

traffic,
> > going through a red light at a badly lit, but non-rural, intersection.

>
> There is no excuse for Car to hit a bike, ever. Drive slower
>


You misunderstand me. I'm not saying it is an excuse. I ride daily.

However!

There are instances of cyclists bringing it upon themselves, no matter how
carefully a motorist (or other cyclist!) drives. When a completely black
object, on a dark night, appears right in your path, in violation of basic
traffic rules...the laws of physics take over. Doesn't matter if it were a
cyclist, or another car, or a pedestrian.

If a flat black car, with no headlights and no reflectors were driving the
wrong way in traffic, at night...who would be at fault in the resultant head
on collision? Why should a 'flat black' cyclist get a free pass? I almost
hit one of these clowns over the weekend, on my bike. Drive slower? Not an
issue in this case.

A moving object (bus/car/bike/ped) can easily cause a crash, by violating
basic rules, such as visibility, lane discipline, etc. Cyclists don't get a
free pass just because we'd like them to.

Unless of course you desire a 3mph national speed limit. Which might not be
bad, but that's not what we have, and not going to happen.

Pete
 
"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> Cf. the "Toronto Coroner's Rule":
>
> The concept of motorized vehicles yielding to non-motorized
> vehicles, who in turn must yield to pedestrians seems to be a
> common sense rule which should be accepted by all road users.
> Entrenching this principle in the HTA would clarify the
> situation, and likely significantly reduce risk of injury and
> death.
>
> http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/cycling/coroner_recomend.htm#legislative


Good idea, but you can only yield to what you see. Too many POB's are
determined not to be seen.

Pete
 
Pete <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote:
>
>"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>
>> Cf. the "Toronto Coroner's Rule":
>>
>> The concept of motorized vehicles yielding to non-motorized
>> vehicles, who in turn must yield to pedestrians seems to be a
>> common sense rule which should be accepted by all road users.
>> Entrenching this principle in the HTA would clarify the
>> situation, and likely significantly reduce risk of injury and
>> death.
>>
>> http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/cycling/coroner_recomend.htm#legislative

>
>Good idea, but you can only yield to what you see. Too many POB's are
>determined not to be seen.


I don't know what a POB is, but try slowing down if you can't
see properly.

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]
 
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:02:15 -0400, Ruben Safir <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Often, but not *always*.
>> Dark sweatshirt, jeans, no lights, no reflectors, riding against traffic,
>> going through a red light at a badly lit, but non-rural, intersection.

>
>There is no excuse for Car to hit a bike, ever. Drive slower


That's absurd. I've twice nearly hit cyclists that were riding the
wrong way through busy intersections at night. In each case they made
little effort to be seen.

A motorist scans logically to the area where traffic is supposed to
be. If you are turning left from a stop on a busy four lane roadway,
you are in no position to pick up a fast moving cyclist riding against
traffic into the intersection. When they enter the intersection as you
make your left turn, it is entirely the luck of the draw whether or
not the cyclist is hit.

There are two lucky individuals out there. Or maybe not. They could
easily be statistics by now.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:02:15 -0400, Ruben Safir <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>> Often, but not *always*.
>>> Dark sweatshirt, jeans, no lights, no reflectors, riding against traffic,
>>> going through a red light at a badly lit, but non-rural, intersection.

>>
>>There is no excuse for Car to hit a bike, ever. Drive slower

>
>That's absurd. I've twice nearly hit cyclists that were riding the
>wrong way through busy intersections at night. In each case they made
>little effort to be seen.


So you admit that you have a history of driving too fast to
avoid cyclists that are riding the wrong way and wearing dark
clothes?

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]
 
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:49:24 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M.
O'Neill) wrote:

>So you admit that you have a history of driving too fast to
>avoid cyclists that are riding the wrong way and wearing dark
>clothes?


Your reading comprehension is as bad as your logic. I turned left from
a standstill, crossing the two on-coming lanes of traffic. The cyclist
was moving somewhere over 15 mph the wrong way on the far left curb.
You can't scan that area or see it adequately in your mirrors. And the
cyclist isn't supposed to be riding there. Period.

Your assinine logic would have the driver responsible for hitting a
cyclist that comes out from a downtown alley at full speed into a busy
roadway. And it trivializes all cyclists and makes them victims
instead of members of traffic.

You are not a defender of cyclists. You are part of the cohort that
provides motorists with the logic necessary to keep cyclists off the
road. If we have no responsibility for how we ride, if we are
irresponsible to the point that we have no impact on incidents on the
road but are always the victims, then we are no more than children and
should not be in traffic at all.

Your response has far more to say about your bicycle riding and
inability to take responsibility than it does about my driving.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:49:24 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M.
>O'Neill) wrote:
>
>>So you admit that you have a history of driving too fast to
>>avoid cyclists that are riding the wrong way and wearing dark
>>clothes?

>
>Your reading comprehension is as bad as your logic. I turned left from
>a standstill, crossing the two on-coming lanes of traffic. The cyclist
>was moving somewhere over 15 mph the wrong way on the far left curb.
>You can't scan that area or see it adequately in your mirrors. And the
>cyclist isn't supposed to be riding there. Period.
>
>Your assinine logic would have the driver responsible for hitting a
>cyclist that comes out from a downtown alley at full speed into a busy
>roadway. And it trivializes all cyclists and makes them victims
>instead of members of traffic.
>
>You are not a defender of cyclists. You are part of the cohort that
>provides motorists with the logic necessary to keep cyclists off the
>road. If we have no responsibility for how we ride, if we are
>irresponsible to the point that we have no impact on incidents on the
>road but are always the victims, then we are no more than children and
>should not be in traffic at all.
>
>Your response has far more to say about your bicycle riding and
>inability to take responsibility than it does about my driving.


So you won't deny you have a history?

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]
 
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:09:23 -0500, Name wrote:

> Not my rule, but traffic law, and insurance
> rule. So you were toast to start with.



So why do the cars now whissle when backing up? Because the freaken
drivers are dangerous

Ruben
 
"SH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> To all cyclists who supported the Critical Mass ride through the
> Melbourne domain tunnel, thanks a lot. As a competative cyclist I have
> had to put up with increase abuse while training today because of your
> stupidity last night. Unfortunately many motorist think we are one in
> the same and have been giving more abuse today than we normally recieve
> just for sharing the road. Just a coincidence, I dont think so!


You get hassled by motorists but you blame it on bicyclist????

Maybe you need to be a little less competitive.

How long did the tunnel tie-up take, anyway? A few minutes?
 
"Bob Kastigar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "SH" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > To all cyclists who supported the Critical Mass ride through the
> > Melbourne domain tunnel, thanks a lot. As a competative cyclist I have
> > had to put up with increase abuse while training today because of your
> > stupidity last night. Unfortunately many motorist think we are one in
> > the same and have been giving more abuse today than we normally recieve
> > just for sharing the road. Just a coincidence, I dont think so!

>
> You get hassled by motorists but you blame it on bicyclist????
>
> Maybe you need to be a little less competitive.
>
> How long did the tunnel tie-up take, anyway? A few minutes?


He is a "competitive cyclist" and rightly blames Critical Mass for stupidity
and increased abuse.
Why do you always defend all bicyclists under all conditions.
Are you a Transportation Bigot?
 
"Krute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bob Kastigar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "SH" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > To all cyclists who supported the Critical Mass ride through the
> > > Melbourne domain tunnel, thanks a lot. As a competative cyclist I have
> > > had to put up with increase abuse while training today because of your
> > > stupidity last night. Unfortunately many motorist think we are one in
> > > the same and have been giving more abuse today than we normally

recieve
> > > just for sharing the road. Just a coincidence, I dont think so!

> >
> > You get hassled by motorists but you blame it on bicyclist????
> >
> > Maybe you need to be a little less competitive.
> >
> > How long did the tunnel tie-up take, anyway? A few minutes?

>
> He is a "competitive cyclist" and rightly blames Critical Mass for

stupidity
> and increased abuse.
> Why do you always defend all bicyclists under all conditions.
> Are you a Transportation Bigot?
>


It is hard to believe that bicyclists would cause problems for other
bicyclists, what were the motorists doing to you and how do you know it was
due to a CM ride?
 
"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Pete <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote:


> >Good idea, but you can only yield to what you see. Too many POB's are
> >determined not to be seen.

>
> I don't know what a POB is, but try slowing down if you can't
> see properly.


Person (or Pinhead) On Bike, as opposed to a cyclist.
And if you're not merely trolling, you're displaying a good imitation of it.

Or are you of the mindset that bicyclists are victims, and can't be held
accountable for their actions when they screw up?

Pete
 
Pete <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote:
>
>"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Pete <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote:

>
>> >Good idea, but you can only yield to what you see. Too many POB's are
>> >determined not to be seen.

>>
>> I don't know what a POB is, but try slowing down if you can't
>> see properly.

>
>Person (or Pinhead) On Bike, as opposed to a cyclist.
>And if you're not merely trolling, you're displaying a good imitation of it.


Well, perhaps I'm being a bit hyperbolic.

>Or are you of the mindset that bicyclists are victims, and can't be held
>accountable for their actions when they screw up?


I'm of the opinion that people using the road have a level of
responsibility proportionate to their potential to inflict harm
on others.

Yes, I do think that people should ride their bicycles in a safe
manner and should be held responsible for their actions.

But I also think that in the current environment the users who
are underwhelmingly held repsonsible for their actions are
motorists. So perhaps some over-compensation would be a good
start to equalization.

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]
 
"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> But I also think that in the current environment the users who
> are underwhelmingly held repsonsible for their actions are
> motorists. So perhaps some over-compensation would be a good
> start to equalization.


Reparations, as it were?

Pete
(i agree with you on the underwhelming penalties)
 
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:06:18 +0000, Steven M. O'Neill wrote:

> Pete <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Pete <ptr@ThievingBastardsWorkAt_usaf.com> wrote:

>>
>>> >Good idea, but you can only yield to what you see. Too many POB's are
>>> >determined not to be seen.
>>>
>>> I don't know what a POB is, but try slowing down if you can't
>>> see properly.

>>
>>Person (or Pinhead) On Bike, as opposed to a cyclist.
>>And if you're not merely trolling, you're displaying a good imitation of it.

>
> Well, perhaps I'm being a bit hyperbolic.
>
>>Or are you of the mindset that bicyclists are victims, and can't be held
>>accountable for their actions when they screw up?

>
> I'm of the opinion that people using the road have a level of
> responsibility proportionate to their potential to inflict harm
> on others.
>
> Yes, I do think that people should ride their bicycles in a safe
> manner and should be held responsible for their actions.
>
> But I also think that in the current environment the users who
> are underwhelmingly held repsonsible for their actions are
> motorists. So perhaps some over-compensation would be a good
> start to equalization.


Like in many countries in Europe? In these countries, after an accident,
negotiations start off from the position that the motorist is
automatically in the wrong.

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.