criticise my training plan for the next year!

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by GettingFaster, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. SolarEnergy

    SolarEnergy New Member

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    (for the record) he was replying to my comment about peaking.

    I didn't say that it was useless, but rather that your cycling would not directly benefit from it. Not at the level that you are at.

    Ideally of course, you should buy a powermeter in order to record all (3 months) of group ride data. Because many things can be going on during these. This is informal but yet potentially valuable planning.

    I agree with your questionning about training hard all year round. But even the most classical periodization approach would prescribe you become ready for the competition season. In other (and hopefully better) words, you should complete your fitness preparation before the racing season begins. Moreover if you want to beging the racing season with a peak.

    In this case, I would at least make sure that there is some sort of a build up in your cycling program during oct-nov-dec. It's not the case in the plan you provided in post #1. If you start in Jan and need a 6 week buildup there, that only leaves you with 1 more 6 week build up and that's it. Then comes april, and then comes racing.

    Bompa's approach to periodization (known to be fairly classical) still prescribes that
    - General preparation should bring your fitness level to where it needs to be
    - Specific preparation should add more specific elements to your program (fitness should already been developed during GP Phase)
    - Competition season is more about maintenance and developing racing abilities

    So now to answer your question. I wouldn't be able to compose a training program (that I would be proud of) without getting to know you more than I do at the moment. But ballpark, I might probably keep your structure pretty intact, keeping a cross training flavor if you like. I'd keep the weekend group rides as is. But would use 1 (leading to 2 and then 3) weekly sessions for quality development (mostly threshold I guess). It can start by tempo training (that's your midweek chuncky not flat out turbo session). If the downloaded weekend rides show enough L6-7 segments it would be ok (even if I doubt). Otherwise, I might introduce L6-7 development fairly early (before Jan).

    I would also make sure that your cross training sessions don't interfeer with the recovery process. I might replace a weekly run by a weekly stretching/gymn session instead. As a time trialist, you need a perfect lowerback flexibility among other things.
     


  2. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    There's way too much underlying thinking to go into detail as to the "why," but your planned approach differs drastically from what I do. So, here is an "alternative" approach with a mini-peek at the "why."

    First, I don't take an entire month off my bike ever (voluntarily). Why: I enjoy riding and I don't want to go through the rebuilding phase of getting my muscles able to handle at least, say, 250W for an hour. So, I'd say my low point of the year would be ~80% of my peak FTP.

    Second, I don't go even a single week without a few hours of high-intensity work (L4-L7 per Andy Coggan's schema, comparable levels in Ric's schema). Why: I haven't seen any evidence that suggests my body can't handle high-intensity work year-round and I enjoy staying at a fairly high level of fitness year-round.

    Third, I don't lift weights, ever. Why: I have not seen any evidence that lifting is a better use of my training time than doing high-intensity efforts.

    Fourth, I base my training plan around numbers. TSS and minutes by level until now. In the future, it will be the Performance Manager plus my own little concoction of TSS points by training level by week. If I couldn't write code, I'd be lost. But, I can, so I'm found.:D
     
  3. SolarEnergy

    SolarEnergy New Member

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    That also sounds like a good plan RD, different than the OP's but still good.

    I can understand the OP's fear of burning himself out to train linear hard the whole year. He's been in a team sport, probably supervised by a coach, at a high level. I did myself prescribing these type of programs (12-18 sessions/week) to young adults and trust me, the month off is more than welcomed for many of them.

    But I mean your program done on a 5 or 6 days a week basis won't hurt anyone I think.

    Thing with rowing is that it is probably more boring, or at least less diversified than cycling. Swimming is even worst. It's like doing trainer only all year round.

    Also, some guys aren't affected by brakes that much. After a while, one develops a training footprint that seems to never go away. But that depends on the individual.
     
  4. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Well, it varies in both volume and intensity, but neither high-intensity efforts nor volume ever go to zero.

    Right. Even if I drop my weekly TSS to, say, 500 points (~50% of my normal total), that's still a long way from zero (even though it feels as though I'm hardly riding).
     
  5. NuCommuter

    NuCommuter New Member

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    Cycling, rowing, and swimming are all low-impact activities, that potentially leave you at risk of losing joint and bone strength. Research seems to be pointing towards people needing to jolt their bodies a bit in order to persuade their bones to retain their density. That would be one reason for all athletes to consider some hard weight-training as part of their program, along with some cross-training that involves impact, such as running or tennis.

    Other parts of the training plan that weren't mentioned were stretching (maybe it was assumed) and balance work. I biked 15 years ago, then stopped, became a kayaker, runner and skateboarder, and now have picked up biking again. Skateboarding has made me a much better bicyclist than I used to be--I can skid the bike with increased confidence, and I have a much better sense of myself in space. Time moves in slower motion when things are happening fast. I can ride in a straight line without looking. Maybe that's another reason to consider different types of cross-training, e.g. skiing or skateboarding, that improve balance and general sense of one's body in space.

    I'm also in favor of that latest fad, "core" work. Two weeks ago I rode 15 hours over three days (Boston to Hartford and back). I was in no way prepared for this as a bicyclist (longest ride prior was maybe 50 miles, 15 years ago), but my body felt strong over the bicycle all those hours, presumably as a result of kayaking, which is a pure core exercise. The fact that I could re-enter cycling quickly suggests that fitness from other sports crosses over well, supporting the concept of cross-training. (Also, I've noticed an improvement in my kayaking posture due to bicycling, which is a similar scrunched position.)

    Everyone's mileage varies, of course...

    NuCommuter
     
  6. whoawhoa

    whoawhoa New Member

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    Note the OP's question-no mention was made of joint strength, bone density, etc. Of course, general health is important, but IMO it's not a training concern.

    Stretching-again, not really a training concern. You might search through for some older threads that discussed stretching in detail.

    Also, I know doing some skateboaring and stuff like that probably increased my coordination, but nothing has improved my handling skills like racing fast crits with 150 person fields.
     
  7. NuCommuter

    NuCommuter New Member

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    I guess I take a kind of holistic view--if the OP wants to be racing his bike at age 70--or if he takes a fall in training like Floyd Landis did--then bone density will be a crucial issue. Rotator cuff exercises might prevent a bad rotator cuff tear when falling during a race. Balance training may make that fall less likely in the first place. Good flexibility helps prevent muscle tears, and so becomes a definite training issue... but I understand your point--he was asking about aerobic training schedule and I widened the topic slightly.

    NuCommuter
     
  8. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Biker_linz (no longer here on the site, currently undertaking a PhD in exercise physiology) posted last year (i think) some stuff on stretching, how that people who stretch are _more_ likely to be injured, not less. You can do a search for the relevant post(s).

    Additionally, and although i'm not an expert in this area, i don't *think* there's a whole lot of evidence to show that weight training is that beneficial to increasing BMD. Either andy coggan will need to repost the relevant info, or if i get a chance i'll search the forums.

    ric
     
  9. SolarEnergy

    SolarEnergy New Member

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    I don't see stretching as a mean to avoid injuries per se though, but rather as a mean to increase comfort in aggressive aerodynamic position.

    As to core training, I agree. A gymn/core/stretching workout is a recovery thing. 3 or 4 easy exercises, 2 or 3 stretching exerises and 20min jacuzzi and such.

    If the rider really want to be competitive, then add a 30min massage to this session.
     
  10. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    on my road bike i have a 18 or 19 cm drop between my saddle and bars. i haven't stretched since about 1995.
     
  11. SolarEnergy

    SolarEnergy New Member

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    The OP is at his 2nd season only though (and he's focussion on time trials, probably using aerobars). In many years from now, he too will probably be able to claim that he hasn't stretch since... 2009 maybe :rolleyes: :D

    Kidding here not arguing. Not everyone has the same level and potential for flexibility. Take those people that have never stretched and can still easily touch the ground with the palm of their hands whilst keeping the legs extented.

    I had a chat once with a friend of mine that studied biomechanical (he specialises in bike fitting and running shoe fitting), he mentionned something interesting though. If one doesn't have the potential to recreate lets say the aero position of his favorite time trialist, *over stretching* the lower back in order to get this position may bring injuries as opposed to avoid them as many people would think.

    So position is a compromise between what you can naturally attain and what you would like to attain.
     
  12. musher

    musher New Member

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    If it's off by 20 watts ,so what?:rolleyes: any Powermeter is better then none:p ,Musher
     
  13. NuCommuter

    NuCommuter New Member

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    Hi Ric,

    I think there's solid evidence that weight training can not only maintain bone density that is normally lost with aging (a loss that non-impact exercises such as bicycling do not prevent), but even restore lost bone density in elderly people. (A quick google search turns up many articles, e.g. http://www.newstarget.com/010528.html )

    As for stretching, what I've seen is that stretching prior to a workout, when you're cold, is a bad idea, because you might actually tear muscles. The ideal time to stretch is after a good warm-up, or after your workout. There's no doubt about the general benefit of flexiblity for athletes--note that all professional sports teams have extensive stretching regimens.

    One more thing to consider is that focusing on a single sport, single-mindedly, can result in very asymmetric muscle development. The quads, for example, pull the tibia up via the patella from a single point, hence destabilizing the knee. Hamstrings, by contrast, pull from the sides, stabilizing the knee. People like skiers and bicyclists, who can overbuild their quads relative to their hamstrings, have a known increased risk of ACL tears. I learned this the hard way, unfortunately, and now have a cadaver ACL graft and 2 1.5 inch aluminum screws in my right knee.

    NuCommuter (M.D.)
     
  14. dm69

    dm69 New Member

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    talking to the op;)
     
  15. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    it's slightly out of my area. but others (e.g., andy coggan will say [i believe]the same thing - andy, who is a member of the forum, is a leading expert in exercise physiology).

    i don't believe the latter is true, in the slightest.

    while i'm sure that can happen (as it did to you), i don't believe that this is a common or even vaguely common occurrence, such that in the years i've been coaching the only injuries i see are generally only those from crashes, or bad bike set up.

    ric
     
  16. Spunout

    Spunout New Member

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    Agree Ric.

    We should note that single-mindedly focussing on a sport and experiencing all of the specific muscle development in that activity usually leads to best performance.

    There is a reason why on a rest day in a grand tour, the teams go for a 2 hour BICYCLE and not a jog.
     
  17. normZurawski

    normZurawski New Member

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    I think I agree. Given the prices, I'll likely buy the Polar model some time in the future (maybe end of next season). The issue isn't road riding, but trainer and off-road riding, which makes up something like 50% of my TiS. I'm still internally debating if it's a good purchase or not.

    Of course, the other power meters essentially have the same limitations, since you put them on one bike and leave them there. But then, the Polar model is apparently tricky to set up so you leave it on one bike anyway.

    What do people who have 2 mountain bikes, a road bike, and a trainer bike do? Do they actually buy 4 power meters? I know, I know, this is off-topic. I'll search the power forums. Sorry for the transgression.
     
  18. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    if you got a Power Tap you swap it between bikes (but not MTB), and if you have an SRM you can do the same.

    ric
     
  19. normZurawski

    normZurawski New Member

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    The "not MTB" is the key. Actually my trainer bike is an old MTB with a slick.

    My question would be - how critical is it to collect data from all rides? My target events are all off-road. Road riding is all but 1 ride per week, serving as my specific workout time.

    Thanks,
    Norm
     
  20. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    i've used a road PT on an old MTB in a trainer...

    more is better. you could estimate the data

    ric
     
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