"Croosifying" Shimano 8 speed drivetrain

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Lou D'Amelio, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. Lou D'Amelio

    Lou D'Amelio Guest

    Hi - got into cross this winter; my club still has a few cross races on the docket in the next
    couple of weeks. My bike (LeMond Poprad) has 8 speed Sora derailleurs, 39/53 double crank and
    Ultegra bar-end shifters. Cassette is 12-25. Looking for the most economical way to braoden my gear
    range (ie, lower my low from the 39 - 25). It seems as though 8 speed Shimano MTB cassettes all have
    an 11t chainring incompatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs. Options I'm considering: 38 t inner
    chainring (lowest I can find for 130 mm) and 12-26 8 speed Ultegra cassette which will only give
    marginal help OR

    8 speed 22-32-42 Alivio crank.

    My questions:

    Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130 mm, 36 T inner chainring and/or broader cassette compatible
    with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and

    Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ? Chainlione problems ? Is the
    Sora triple derailleur different from the double?

    Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?

    TIA for responses...........Lou D'Amelio
     
    Tags:


  2. In article <[email protected]>,
    Lou D'Amelio <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Hi - got into cross this winter; my club still has a few cross races on the docket in the next
    >couple of weeks. My bike (LeMond Poprad) has 8 speed Sora derailleurs, 39/53 double crank and
    >Ultegra bar-end shifters. Cassette is 12-25. Looking for the most economical way to braoden my gear
    >range (ie, lower my low from the 39 - 25). It seems as though 8 speed Shimano MTB cassettes all
    >have an 11t chainring incompatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs.

    You don't have a Hyperglide-Compact cassette body - this is an easily solvable problem:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#hyperdrivec

    > Options I'm considering: 38 t inner chainring (lowest I can find for 130 mm) and 12-26 8 speed
    > Ultegra cassette which will only give marginal help OR

    How much lower than 38x26 do you need?

    >8 speed 22-32-42 Alivio crank.

    Yucky, besides being a complete boat anchor that will also require changing lots of other parts. I
    would stay away from this option.

    >My questions:
    >
    >Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130 mm, 36 T inner chainring

    Does not exist, physically impossible on 130mm BCD. 38t is it, and even that won't work on
    every crank.

    >and/or broader cassette compatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and

    harriscyclery.com appears to have an 8-speed 12x28 XTR cassette in their catalog. But you could use
    the 11x28 if you wanted to.

    >Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ?

    The front derailleur won't work with it. The bar ends will work with anything.

    >Chainlione problems ?

    May need to replace the bottom bracket.

    >Is the Sora triple derailleur different from the double?

    Yes.

    >Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?

    110 BCD crank set with 34/48 or 34/50 gearing would be ideal for you. Plus the 28t cassette if you
    need it that low.

    If you got a Shimano mountain bike rear derailleur you could also go to a 30 or 32t large cog on
    the cassette.

    --Paul
     
  3. > Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130 mm, 36 T inner chainring and/or broader cassette
    > compatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and
    >
    You may still be able to find steel XTR 12-28 8-speed cassettes; you can definitely still order 12-
    32s. You cannot get anything smaller than a 38t for the inner chainring on a 130mm double, since the
    bolt circle determines the smallest-possible chainring size. Anything smaller than 38t would intrude
    on the chainring bolts themselves.

    > Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ? Chainlione problems ? Is the
    > Sora triple derailleur different from the double?

    Ultegra bar cons will work fine with Sora & Alivio derailleurs, either double or triple. All triple
    front derailleurs are different from their double counterparts, but the shifters themselves are,
    with a few exceptions, compatible.

    > Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?

    No reason to go triple when you can do a 12-28 or 12-32 XTR 8-speed rear cassette. You'll most
    likely have to change the rear derailleur to a long-cage version (especially for the 12-32 option).

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  4. Doug G

    Doug G Guest

    [email protected] (Lou D'Amelio) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Hi - got into cross this winter; my club still has a few cross races on the docket in the next
    > couple of weeks. My bike (LeMond Poprad) has 8 speed Sora derailleurs, 39/53 double crank and
    > Ultegra bar-end shifters. Cassette is 12-25. Looking for the most economical way to braoden my
    > gear range (ie, lower my low from the 39 - 25). It seems as though 8 speed Shimano MTB cassettes
    > all have an 11t chainring incompatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs. Options I'm considering: 38
    > t inner chainring (lowest I can find for 130 mm) and 12-26 8 speed Ultegra cassette which will
    > only give marginal help OR
    >
    > 8 speed 22-32-42 Alivio crank.
    >
    > My questions:
    >
    > Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130 mm, 36 T inner chainring and/or broader cassette
    > compatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and
    >
    > Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ? Chainlione problems ? Is the
    > Sora triple derailleur different from the double?
    >
    > Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?
    >
    > TIA for responses...........Lou D'Amelio

    I acquired the same bike earlier this year and wanted to extend the low range also. I replaced the
    Sora brifters with bar-ends as you have, and then went to a 9-speed cassette [took a HG-70 14-25,
    drilled out the rivets and exchanged the 18t for 28t I had scrounged; ergo, 14-28]. The Sora chain
    rings present a problem as they are steel i/o alloy and are thinner, and there is a *VERY* limited
    number of options for replacement rings. I found that once I had the new cassette [you will need a
    new chain, and should also have a new RD - I picked up the cheapest Shimano MTB one I could find],
    the low end performance on most of the terrain I ride improved dramatically. I think with that
    minimum expense in replacement parts, you will be very happy with the results

    --
    Doug Goodwin YMMV

    The thing about the cold is that you can never tell how cold it is from looking out a kitchen
    window. You have to dress up, get out training and when you come back, you then know how cold it is.
    --Sean Kelly
     
  5. Lou D'Amelio wrote:

    > Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130 mm, 36 T inner chainring and/or broader cassette
    > compatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and

    There is no such thing as a 36 tooth chainring for the 130 mm bolt circle. 38 is the smallest
    physially possible.

    > Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ?

    Ultegra front shifters work with everything. Rears work with any Shimano derailer and any 8-
    speed cassette.

    > Chainlione problems ? Is the Sora triple derailleur different from the double?

    Yes, it is. You should use a derailer that matches the biggest ring on the crankset.

    > Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?

    How about a 13-30 cassette?

    See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#8cassettes

    This will work with everything you have, except you should also replace the chain.

    Sheldon "Easy Way Out" Brown +-------------------------------------------------+
    | What is good for you is what is good for you. | --Peter Chisholm |
    +-------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  6. meb

    meb New Member

    Joined:
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    Warhawk ( www.chainrings.com) makes a 37T 130 bcd chainring, I 'don't thing anyone else makes a 130mm bcd that small. If you want to go to 36T, you'll need go to 110mm bcd.

    You could also go to a 12/32 cassette, but probably would need a new rder from what came with the 25T max.
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Lou D'Amelio wrote:

    > Hi - got into cross this winter; my club still has a few cross races on the docket in the next
    > couple of weeks. My bike (LeMond Poprad) has 8 speed Sora derailleurs, 39/53 double crank and
    > Ultegra bar-end shifters. Cassette is 12-25. Looking for the most economical way to braoden my
    > gear range (ie, lower my low from the 39 - 25). It seems as though 8 speed Shimano MTB cassettes
    > all have an 11t chainring incompatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs. Options I'm considering: 38
    > t inner chainring (lowest I can find for 130 mm) and 12-26 8 speed Ultegra cassette which will
    > only give marginal help OR 8 speed 22-32-42 Alivio crank. Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130
    > mm, 36 T inner chainring and/or broader cassette compatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and
    > Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ? Chainlione problems ? Is the
    > Sora triple derailleur different from the double? Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose
    > without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?

    36t Physically impossible. The bolts of a 130mm chainring would go through the teeth of a 36 -or
    even above them!

    The Alivio crank leaves you with a 42t high. Is that what you want?? Not a great crank for gear
    change either. 110mm is much better.

    Yes Shimano's BarCon works fine with all current Shimano changers.

    You might consider a 110mm crank with a 34-48 or a 36-48 or some other cross-like gearing. 130mm
    won't do that but will go to 38-48.

    An 11t cassette may be used with a spacer behind low gear. (but 11t cogs wear faster )

    SRAM offers 8speed Shimano-compatible cassettes in 11~32t, SunRace in 12~32, Shimano in 11~30
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  8. Andres Muro

    Andres Muro Guest

    Lou: The lowest you can go with 130 crankset is 38 inner chainring. I would go to either
    rec.bicycles.marketplace, or to ebay, and I would search for a 110 mm crankset. I got one really
    cheap. Then, you can get a 34 toothe inner chaniring. You can also get a 12-32 8 speed cassette if
    you look around. That'll be the lowest you can go with a double, and you'll need a long cage rear
    deraulier. If you want lower you'll have to go triple but you'll need to change your bottom bracket
    and front deraullier too.

    Since you are trying to go cheap, go for used stuff. Again, either ebay or rec.bicycles.marketplace
    are good sources. I am building a TT bike out of old parts. The only thing that you will probably
    have to get new is the cassette and also a chain. Rivendale has big range 8 speed cassettes, and for
    more $$$ Sheldon Brown will custom make whatever you want. Finally, go to www.chucksbikes.com for
    some cheap stuff. If you still need help finding stuff let me know.

    Andres

    [email protected] (Lou D'Amelio) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hi - got into cross this winter; my club still has a few cross races on the docket in the next
    > couple of weeks. My bike (LeMond Poprad) has 8 speed Sora derailleurs, 39/53 double crank and
    > Ultegra bar-end shifters. Cassette is 12-25. Looking for the most economical way to braoden my
    > gear range (ie, lower my low from the 39 - 25). It seems as though 8 speed Shimano MTB cassettes
    > all have an 11t chainring incompatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs. Options I'm considering: 38
    > t inner chainring (lowest I can find for 130 mm) and 12-26 8 speed Ultegra cassette which will
    > only give marginal help OR
    >
    > 8 speed 22-32-42 Alivio crank.
    >
    > My questions:
    >
    > Anyone know of a source for 8 speed, 130 mm, 36 T inner chainring and/or broader cassette
    > compatible with Shimano 8 speed road hubs and
    >
    > Will Ultegra bar ends and Sora derailleur work with Alivio triple ? Chainlione problems ? Is the
    > Sora triple derailleur different from the double?
    >
    > Any other suggestions to accomplish my purpose without upgrading the whole drivetrain ?
    >
    > TIA for responses...........Lou D'Amelio
     
  9. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    andres muro wrote:
    > Lou: The lowest you can go with 130 crankset is 38 inner chainring. I would go to either
    > rec.bicycles.marketplace, or to ebay, and I would search for a 110 mm crankset. I got one really
    > cheap. Then, you can get a 34 toothe inner chaniring. You can also get a 12-32 8 speed cassette if
    > you look around. That'll be the lowest you can go with a double, and you'll need a long cage rear
    > deraulier.

    I'd agree with this. I have a 110mm double chainset with 50/36 rings and a 12-32 cassette in 6 to be
    changed to a 12-32 custom in 8

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. http://www.mseries.freeserve.co.uk
     
  10. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    MSeries wrote:
    > andres muro wrote:
    >> Lou: The lowest you can go with 130 crankset is 38 inner chainring. I would go to either
    >> rec.bicycles.marketplace, or to ebay, and I would search for a 110 mm crankset. I got one really
    >> cheap. Then, you can get a 34 toothe inner chaniring. You can also get a 12-32 8 speed cassette
    >> if you look around. That'll be the lowest you can go with a double, and you'll need a long cage
    >> rear deraulier.
    >
    > I'd agree with this. I have a 110mm double chainset with 50/36 rings and a 12-32 cassette in 6 to
    > be changed to a 12-32 custom in 8

    That should read 14-32 cassettes

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. http://www.mseries.freeserve.co.uk
     
  11. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > andres muro wrote:
    > > Lou: The lowest you can go with 130 crankset is 38 inner chainring. I would go to either
    > > rec.bicycles.marketplace, or to ebay, and I would search for a 110 mm crankset. I got one really
    > > cheap. Then, you can get a 34 toothe inner chaniring. You can also get a 12-32 8 speed cassette
    > > if you look around. That'll be the lowest you can go with a double, and you'll need a long cage
    > > rear deraulier.
    >
    > I'd agree with this. I have a 110mm double chainset with 50/36 rings and a 12-32 cassette in 6 to
    > be changed to a 12-32 custom in 8

    I'm run 34/46 rings on my cross bike for racing season. I found an XTR crank with an adaptor on them
    already for about $120. Not too bad... I'm sure that if you hunt, you can find something for less.
    Cambria bike has some nice AC crankarms that are usually on sale. A friend that races Clydesdale has
    a pair and really likes them.

    I know most guys run 12-28 or so cassettes unless the race is really flat. You can still use a short
    cage derailleur with this cassette as long as you're not running a triple. Alternately, try and find
    a short cage mtn derailleur. Friend from above has an old XT, I'm running a custom made XTegra (XT
    upper, Ultegra cage).

    The way I see it, I'll run brifters unless it is really nasty. The ease of use of brifters outweighs
    the durability of the barcons. Same friend from above swears by barcons. Opinions are like belly
    buttons on this one.

    You can go ask more questions on the www.roadbikereview.com cyclocross discussion page too. There
    are several sickos over there too.

    Mike
     
  12. meb

    meb New Member

    Joined:
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    Another option. Take a look at your cranks. If there is metal where a smaller bcd pattern fits, you can drill out and tap your cranks with a smaller concentric bcd to the 130mm.
     
  13. Andres Muro

    Andres Muro Guest

    Hey, this sounds like a great idea for future reference. Inever thought of it. Cn this be done? Has
    anyone done it, risks, etc.

    Thanks,

    Andres

    meb <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > meb wrote:
    > > Warhawk ( www.chainrings.com) makes a 37T 130 bcd chainring, I 'don't thing anyone else makes
    > > a 130mm bcd that small. If you want to go to 36T, you'll need go to 110mm bcd. You could also
    > > go to a 12/32 cassette, but probably would need a new rder from what came with the 25T max.
    >
    >
    >
    > Another option. Take a look at your cranks. If there is metal where a smaller bcd pattern fits,
    > you can drill out and tap your cranks with a smaller concentric bcd to the 130mm.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
     
  14. meb

    meb New Member

    Joined:
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    Mark Stonich fabricates short arm triples that way:

    http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/short_cranks/dotek.html
     
  15. Raymo853

    Raymo853 Guest

    I have seen a lot of double cranks as of late that have the spot for the third ring's hole but just
    did not mill the holes out and thread them. On those cranks I would consider doing it if I had the
    proper equipment.

    I would never ever even for a sane second consider doing it on any other crank.

    "andres muro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hey, this sounds like a great idea for future reference. Inever thought of it. Cn this be done?
    > Has anyone done it, risks, etc.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Andres
    >
    > meb <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > meb wrote:
    > > > Warhawk ( www.chainrings.com) makes a 37T 130 bcd chainring, I
    'don't
    > > > thing anyone else makes a 130mm bcd that small. If you want to go to 36T, you'll need go to
    > > > 110mm bcd. You could also go to a 12/32 cassette, but probably would need a new rder from
    > > > what came with the 25T max.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Another option. Take a look at your cranks. If there is metal where a smaller bcd pattern fits,
    > > you can drill out and tap your cranks with a smaller concentric bcd to the 130mm.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
     
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