Crossing recovery periods: Weight training and cycling

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by AmpedCycle, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. AmpedCycle

    AmpedCycle New Member

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    I'm trying to figure out how my body adapts to and recovers from two different kinds of exercises. Right now I'm cycling 200+ miles per week and weight training once per week (going up to 3 times per week next month). My recovery day from cycling is the day that I do weight training, and my question is: will my body be able to recover from cycling all week AND recover from weight training? I'm using soreness as an indicator... I'm sore for 2 days at the end of my cycling week, and sore for about 3 days after my weight training day. Is my body able to repair itself sufficiently from both of these activities in time to be prepared for the next interval of training? Am I missing out better, more complete recovery?
    I'm a 24 year old male who has been cycling and weight training for more than a year.
     
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  2. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    what are your goals, and objectives? which is more important to you? do you race?

    ric
     
  3. AmpedCycle

    AmpedCycle New Member

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    Goals are to become as fit as possible... If I cycle only, I lose all the muscle in my upper body and shrink down to about 154 pounds (I'm 6'2''). Is there a way to effectively combine these two so that you get the benefits of both? Goals to become more muscular and a better cyclist. I think that I wouldn't be at a disadvantage with a few extra pounds of upper body muscle... I think I weigh about 160-165 right now.
     
  4. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    i don't mean to sound churlish, but what do you mean by "fit"? do you race, and if so what type?

    To become a better cyclist upper body mass is of zero importance. Currently, you're suggesting that you'd be 6 to 11 lb lighter with no weights - 2.7 to 5 kg lighter, which could make a significant difference to your climbing ability - you could be looking at (approx) 40 - 90 ish seconds quicker on a steep (9%)climb of 5 km in length with those weight losses.

    ric
     
  5. AmpedCycle

    AmpedCycle New Member

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    But is there a correlation between recovery from both weight training and cycling? Does one adversely lengthen the recovery time of the other?
     
  6. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    yes, the more intense or more volume of training you do, will likely increase your recovery time.
     
  7. SolarEnergy

    SolarEnergy New Member

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    Hi,

    If I may. In term of recovery, I see at least two areas where both type of training interfere one with the other :
    - Nervous System (Central and Peripheral)
    - Sugar level

    Now, in term of performance, I see an other area where both type of training will interfere : VO2Max
    This is a calculated value that takes your total weight into consideration.

    Couple of examples :
    After a very hard Interval training Z4, or Z5, the nervous system will need some rest. In my opinion, you can't substitute that resting period for a weight lifting session, which will also stress the Nervous system.

    After a long TT ride (60k for instance), your general sugar level (glycogen) will be very low, specially if that TT comes late in your training week (still haven't fully recover from previous tought rides). Again, weight lifting may delay the recovery in that matter.

    When you climb a hill, your performances may be greater if you don't have all that extra-weight to carry (upper-body muscle mass).

    So of course, Ideally, for someone that wants to perform at his best in cycling, weight lifting should be avoid, specially during the specific preparation phase, or even worst, during the competition phase.

    BUT

    As Ric as pointed out, all that depends on your goals. I know this for a fact, because I do the same thing as you do. I weight lift a bit, to keep a healty look. My girl does not like the way I look when I get to thin. This, knowing that my cycling suffers a bit from it. I don't care, I don't race. The day I want to race, I will have to quit weight lifting, and my girl may quit me :( :D

    Cheers
     
  8. thirdeye73

    thirdeye73 New Member

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    i combine 100+ miles of cycling with 3 days of weights a week. first of all, if for some reason i'm sore or feel less than 90%, i'm not afraid to skip a day of the weight training. second, i don't do bodybuilding workouts...stick to compound movements and keep the reps low (train movements, not muscles). my workouts rarely last more than 45min, but at the end of that i'm gassed (but never sore the next day). only do singles, doubles, and triples (with a weight that you could do at least 5 reps with) while keeping your rest times low (1min or less), and you'll find you're strength will go up, as well as your ability to recover quickly and perform again at the same level.
     
  9. Doctor Morbius

    Doctor Morbius New Member

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    I think there is room for both weight training and cycling, especially for a person who is pursuing a fitness lifestyle and not for someone who is interested in competing in either one.

    I think the trick is to know when to emphasise one activity and back off the other. It's a real balancing act to try to excel at both weight training and cycling and I honestly don't belive it can be done effectively. The human body just has so much ability to recover. For example, if a person wants to emphasise weights and cut way back on aerobic work (time AND intensity) during the Winter months and emphasise cycling and cut way back on the weights during Summer that would probably work out well provided they both don't become a priority.

    Like an idiot I started doing some weights about 7 weeks ago after a lengthy layoff. It was a very bad (and dumb) idea as I was also trying to improve my cycling by doing more intervals and quality work. The result was I just spent a week off feeling terrible. Even though I was doing a beginner's weight routine, when combined with more intense workouts on the bike it was just too much for my body to recover.

    With only a few weeks of decent Indiana weather left, I may have just shot any possibility of besting any personal records on the bike. It'll have to wait until next year.

    For some really good info on strength training do a google for Charles Poliquin and Fred Hatfield. They are both excellent strength coaches and offer sound advice based on real science as opposed to a hack like Mike Mentzer, who was just trying to sell his courses for profit.
     
  10. SolarEnergy

    SolarEnergy New Member

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    Yeah, your program seems to be logical and well balanced. But let's not forget that this gentleman want's to develop and maintain extra muscle mass. He wants to avoid getting to thin. And this, depending on the morphology and the muscle response to training, can sometimes require to lift heavier charges.

    But still, I agree with you, it's possible to do both cycling and weightlifting. :)
     
  11. thirdeye73

    thirdeye73 New Member

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    i have no problem maintaining muslce mass, and for someone starting this kind of training, they'll probably put some on (not as fast as a mass-building workout, but it'll still happen).
     
  12. AmpedCycle

    AmpedCycle New Member

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    All this sounds great. I'm glad to have some good feedback... now, I think that weight lifting and cycling can be crossed, but what kinds of weight lifting do you guys do? Right now, I'm hitting the major upper body muscles with this program:
    Lat Pulldown/Pullups (machine)
    Bench Press (free weights)
    Tricep pushdowns (machine)
    Dumbell bicep curls
    Shoulder extensions (arm abducting away from body -- front and side)
    Weighted crunches
    Shoulder shrugs

    What else should I add? I can do this routine once a week, but I think I'd like to add some more exercises to get more balanced. Thanks again!
     
  13. Doctor Morbius

    Doctor Morbius New Member

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    Suggest you dump the Triceps Pushdowns in favor of a compound triceps movement.

    What kind of set/rep scheme are you currently using?


    Also, how many reps can you do with 80% of your 1 rep max singles? Can you do 20 reps with 80% max or can you only do about 4 reps with 80% max? The number will determine what type of routine will typically provide your best gains.
     
  14. AmpedCycle

    AmpedCycle New Member

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    Right now, I'm doing this:
    Lat Pulldown/Pullups: 10 reps or 8 pullups (max), 6-8 reps, 4-6 reps... total 3 sets
    Bench Press: 10 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps
    Tricep pushdown: 12 reps, 10 reps, 8 reps
    Dumbell bicep curl: 10 reps, 10 reps, 6 reps
    Shoulder raise: 12 reps, 10 reps, 8 reps
    Weighted crunches: 10-12 reps 3 sets
    Shoulder shrug (dumbell): 10-12 reps 3 sets

    Each of these I do till failure, for the most part.
    I'm sure that @ 80 percent of my 1 rep max I could do about 4-6 reps.
     
  15. Doctor Morbius

    Doctor Morbius New Member

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    Training to failure is not necessary for muscular adaptations. In fact training to failure will most likely overwork the nervous and lymphatic systems and cut into recovery time. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that training to concentric failure promotes muscular cross sectional hypertrophy or strength gains. Power lifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure and they are very muscular.

    Next time you lift, pick a couple of exercises such as the bench press and barbell curls and after a thorough warmup do a strict 1 rep max. Next rest about 10 minutes and with 80% of that max weight on the bar and see how many strict reps (no body english allowed) you can get with 80%. If you can only do between 4 - 6 reps, chances are you will respond best to low rep workouts. If you can do 15 - 20 reps with 80% max chances are you will respond better to high rep high volume workouts with lots of sets.

    Doing any type of weight lifting program though only works for a while as the body adapts to whatever rep/set scheme you are doing. So at some point (typically 3 - 6 weeks) you will probably want to do a combination of low reps (3 - 6) medium reps (8 - 12) and high reps (12 - 20) for each bodypart. It isn't necessary to do them all in the same workout though. If you find you respond best to low reps, do that for a period of 3 - 6 weeks followed by a period of medium or high reps.

    Also, change the routine as well. Instead of doing barbell bench press switch over to dumbell bench press or dips. The body tends to adapt to weight training very easily so mixing things up is necessary to keep things moving. I don't think it is necessary to change routines every few workouts though.

    Something else to consider is frequency. You mentioned that you were wanting to start lifting 3 times per week. That would be too much frequency if you were to train each bodypart 3 times per week - excluding abs, forearms and the calf muscle. Suggest you split your workout in half (push/pull movements, for example) and alternate them for those 3 days. That way each bodypart gets trained 4 - 5 days per week and will have adequate time for recovery. I also think you'll most likely need to cut back on the amount of riding you're doing, especially if you are doing any intensity. 200 miles a week sounds like a lot for somebody that wants to tackle all of this.

    These are just general guidlines, of course. Nobody can make up an effective workout routine for somebody online without more information just as a cycling coach can't recommend the perfect training program without much more communication. Still suggest you google and read up on some articles by Charles Poliquin and Fred Hatfield.
     
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