Crown jewel placement (Gentlemen only please)



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Fred Fragger wrote:

>I'm 5'10" with a 30.5" (clothing measure so about 32" to the ground) inside leg and my hardtail has
>a 20" frame. I'm using a Post Moderne Bracer Suspension seat post and the saddle is fitted well
>past mid-way forward on the rails.

It does sound a little like you may not have the best size.

I am 5'11", and buy trousers around a 31" leg, I am long in the body and short in the leg.

I spent quite a bit of time looking at bikes, because I wanted one that would be long enough, abut
low enough IYSWIM.

Trick one is to find a good LBS. I got a lot of help selecting a suitable bike, and am awaiting
delivery of a Marin Hawk Hill in a 17" frame.

That seems to have the space for me to be comfortable without being too tall.
--
Paul Matthews [email protected] http://www.hepcats.co.uk
 
On 16 Dec 2003 05:31:50 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Purvis) wrote:

>Contrary to popular belief, the way to fit a frame to a person is to fit the length of the frame to
>the length of your torso, not the height to the length of your legs.

You have to fit the frame to the length of your legs too. I currently ride a 18" bike which is
way to small for me even though I'm only 6'2". I have the longest seatpost I could find, 400mm,
and still it is nealy an inch above the max elevation mark. Not good. And I still want it a
little higher.
 
"Tom Purvis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Fred Fragger" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > First thing to point out that my inside leg, wearing shoes, is 31" not
32"
> > (I got it wrong) so either my nickname is stumpy or yours is giraffe's
legs
> > :) we need some other reader's measurements to decide which one of us
is
> > "normal" !
>
> In all seriousness, "normal" is BS, there's lots of variation that can still be called normal. But
> what isn't BS is that your torso is as long as lots of 6-footers' torsos. I wouldn't call you
> stumpy, but with a long torso like that, you have to expect to fit onto a larger frame size than
> someone your height who has a short torso. Contrary to popular belief, the way to fit a frame to a
> person is to fit the length of the frame to the length of your torso, not the height to the length
> of your legs.
>
> > My saddle looked perfectly level but I checked it with a spirit level
and
> > it's 1/2 an inch up at the front which I'm guessing won't be helping.
>
> Do you know how to adjust that? I would advise perfectly level as a starting place. I know people
> who like a saddle tipped slightly back, but if your boys are talking to you, I'd guess it ain't
> right for you. If you don't know how to adjust it, take it to a shop. (Or mess with it, they
> aren't too hard to figure out).
>
> If you find that your *can't* adjust it to tip any farther forward, it's likely that your post was
> installed backwards. I've seen that before. If so, remove the saddle from the clamp, turn the post
> around to face the other way, and put the saddle back on. You should be able to make the saddle
> slant as much as 10 degrees forward if it's on the post the right way.
>
> > My saddle (when levelled) and bars are at exactly the same height.
>
> That's a damn fine place to start. Let's assume for now that rise is OK and some other thing is
> causing trouble.
>
> > I checked my frame size and, measuring from the centre of the crank(?)
to
> > the top of the seat tube, I got 20" which I was expecting
>
> Find out what your seat height is, center of crank bolt to top of saddle just over the seat
> post clamp.
>
> > Measuring (horizontally because the top tube slopes) from the centre of
the
> > seat tube to the centre of the head tube I get 22.5" You're right, I
don't
> > know how to measure the "effective" top tube length - perhaps you could enlighten me? I like to
> > learn something new every day!
>
> It's a little subjective. Here's word definition: "The horizontal measure from the center of the
> headset to the center of the seatpost. The most important measurement when buying a bike, because
> it cannot be changed."
>
> First, find a spot that looks like the center of the head tube just where the headset is on the
> top. Take your spirit level, and find horizontal back from there. Measure the distance along that
> level to your seat post.
>
> This is subjective at least because a taller fork will make your frame seem to have a longer
> effective top tube.
>
> > The stem, measured from the centre of the head tube to the centre of the bars is 4"
>
> If that measurement is correct, you have a 100mm stem. That's short for a bike your bike's size.
>
> Get effective top tube and also get distance from point of saddle to center of handlebar at the
> stem clamp. I'm curious about both those.
>
> It may very well be that the only thing you need to do is level out your saddle or tip it
> "slightly" forward (if you have to tip it too far forward to keep your package happy, it suggests
> that your bars are too low or forward, and it can make your hands go to sleep).
> --
> Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/ Salida, CO

Tom

Thanks for taking the time & trouble thus far, I've been up country for a family funeral and only
got back late tonight so I'll do a bit more measuring tomorrow and get back to you.

Regards,

Fred
 
"Fred Fragger" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...Thanks for taking the time & trouble thus far, I've been up country for a family funeral and
> only got back late tonight

Sorry to hear that. I hope everything is OK.

Listen, something occurred to me when I was saddling up today for a little ride. I was wearing one
of my poorest-fitting pairs of lycra shorts under my oldest and rattiest pair of lycra longies. I
rolled away from the house, and the boys were moving around in a most irritating way. Didn't make it
a block before I started trying to hike up my set of layered worn-out lycra to get things
straightened out, so to speak. I wound up needing to stop to pull up my pants just a little.

What was the problem? Bike fit? No, lack of gravitational support. Good fitting bike shorts act like
a brassiere for your package. I have a couple pair of shorts that FIT. I put one of those pairs on
and I'm good to go. The just fit, not to snug, not too loose. Then I have a couple pair that are
either too big or have lost most of their elasticity (because they were made before the FDR
administration).

The ones that don't fit don't keep things in place as well.

Don't want to start a baggies vs. lycra holy war, but lycra that *fits* can serve a noble purpose.
Might want to check for a possible retention solution. If you get my meaning.
--
Tom "a place for everything and everything in its place" Purvis
Salida, CO - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
 
"Fred Fragger" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The more I get into riding the more I worry that I bought the wrong frame size.
>
> I'm 5'10" with a 30.5" (clothing measure so about 32" to the ground) inside leg and my hardtail
> has a 20" frame.

You should be on an 18"(med) frame. The 20" (which is a large)is too big for you. This is a common
mistake made by those more familiar with road bike sizing or Dept Store shopping. Go to a proper
bike shop. End of story.
 
"Fred Fragger" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The more I get into riding the more I worry that I bought the wrong frame size.
>
> I'm 5'10" with a 30.5" (clothing measure so about 32" to the ground) inside leg and my hardtail
> has a 20" frame. I'm using a Post Moderne Bracer Suspension seat post and the saddle is fitted
> well past mid-way forward on the rails.
>
> Why do I think I bought the wrong size? Because I often find that I'm perched on the nose of the
> saddle with my crown jewels in the clear rather than on the saddle or dressed to the right or
> left. I'm assuming that this riding position is "wrong" as, on longer XC rides, it gets quite
> uncomfortable.
>
> So, should I be looking for on-saddle jewel placement or is it just a case of "what suits you"?
> Would an 18" frame actually make that much difference? Or is it mainly down to the straight seat-
> post I'm using, I notice quite a few posts have an offset top fitting?
>
> Later,
>
> Fred
>
> Nice crisp blue-sky day here after lots of heavy rain. Bikes out ready :) Lots of cleaning
> later :-(

You're looking at this problem the wrong way. The problem isn't with your frame, it's with the
placement of your 'crown jewels'. Hang them from your forehead. Problem solved. /s
 
"Tom Purvis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Fred Fragger" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...Thanks for taking the time & trouble thus far, I've been up country for a family funeral and
> > only got back late tonight
>
> Sorry to hear that. I hope everything is OK.

Not too bad thanks, lost the father-in-law so the wife & kids were quite upset plus we've had the
mother-in-law down to stay with us over the holiday period so you can guess that the mood was a
little sombre at times. Get's easier as each day passes though.

Anyway, back to your questions, I think the three so far unanswered were:

1) Seat height, centre of crank to top of saddle is 28.5" . However, I'm using a suspension seatpost
which drops an inch when I set my lard-**** on it :) so I'd say 27.5"

2) Centre of headtube to centre of seat post (horizontal) is 23.5"

3) Point of saddle to centre of handlebar at the stem clamp is 20"

>
> Don't want to start a baggies vs. lycra holy war, but lycra that *fits* can serve a noble purpose.
> Might want to check for a possible retention solution. If you get my meaning.
> --

I get your meaning and I'm happy that my new padded underwear plus lycra bib-longs are keeping
things better positioned than before!

Out of interest, we've upgraded the wife's bike and she now has a full suspension mount with an
18.5" frame. I've only had the chance to have one go on it so far and it was quite comfortable but
it "felt" small if you know what I mean. I'll try and get out on it later this week if I can and
give it a good thrash round the local woods.

As the wife is only 5' 4" I guess an 18.5" frame MAY be to big for her(*) so perhaps I'll just have
to take her new bike and buy her a smaller one :)

Later,

Fred

* I think I need to find a decent LBS rather than buy from a chain store that employs muppets!
 
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