CSC strategy on Stage 17?



serpico7

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Sep 18, 2006
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CSC expended a lot of effort today, and even though they eliminated VV and put some time on Menchov, I felt like they could have put some time into Evans. Between the Shlecks and Castre, they're good enough climbers to have gapped Evans with an attack several km before the summit, and if a couple others had come with them, they might have maintained the gap to the finish, as the Shlecks and Sastre did a pretty good job on a dangerous descent.

As it is, Evans is sitting pretty. He just has to follow wheels tomorrow, and nobody is better at that than him.

What's the best way to crack Evans tomorrow?
 
Slow, fast, slow, slow, FAST! slow, slooowwww, fast, FAST, FAAAAAST, slow and then fast.

That should do it...in that order.
 
b1_ said:
Slow, fast, slow, slow, FAST! slow, slooowwww, fast, FAST, FAAAAAST, slow and then fast.

That should do it...in that order.

No, that's one-ball's instructions to Ashley. Makes him go first every time.
 
Send Voigt on attack on Galibier, send Sastre on attack on Croix de Fer where he should catch Voigt and work with him till d' Huez where he could build enough time on his own on Evans, Menchov, VV for the TT.
If the TT specialists respond to Sastre's attack, then it's on CSC to break them down on d'Huez for F.Schleck.

And there is ace up in CSC's sleeve - A.Schleck. Where will they decide to send him on attack? Probably they'll keep him with his brother.
 
Andrija said:
Send Voigt on attack on Galibier, send Sastre on attack on Croix de Fer where he should catch Voigt and work with him till d' Huez where he could build enough time on his own on Evans, Menchov, VV for the TT.
If the TT specialists respond to Sastre's attack, then it's on CSC to break them down on d'Huez for F.Schleck.

And there is ace up in CSC's sleeve - A.Schleck. Where will they decide to send him on attack? Probably they'll keep him with his brother.

Yeah, JV should attack CE, and if VV needs to PP before CE he'll get him in the TT and win the GC.
 
serpico7 said:
CSC expended a lot of effort today, and even though they eliminated VV and put some time on Menchov, I felt like they could have put some time into Evans. Between the Shlecks and Castre, they're good enough climbers to have gapped Evans with an attack several km before the summit, and if a couple others had come with them, they might have maintained the gap to the finish, as the Shlecks and Sastre did a pretty good job on a dangerous descent.

As it is, Evans is sitting pretty. He just has to follow wheels tomorrow, and nobody is better at that than him.

What's the best way to crack Evans tomorrow?
Frank did not look good today. If he didn't attack, it's because he couldn't. CSC tried to get rid of the top 8, but didn't succeed. As simple as that.The best CSC man presently is Andy, but unfortunately 9 mins is a lot of fruit...

If I were Riis I would definitely send Andy tomorrow right from the start to Alpe d'Huez....
 
adamastor said:
Frank did not look good today. If he didn't attack, it's because he couldn't. CSC tried to get rid of the top 8, but didn't succeed. As simple as that.The best CSC man presently is Andy, but unfortunately 9 mins is a lot of fruit...

If I were Riis I would definitely send Andy tomorrow right from the start to Alpe d'Huez....

An opportunity lost today for CSC, I don't understand Riis, If he leaves everything tommorrow until the Alpe its game over for them. They have the best team but you have to have a very very strong rider to ride away from their rivals on the last climb of the day, they simply do not have a rider like this.

Because of the lost opportunity today they should go for it on the Galibier, if not, the Croix de Fer is absolutely the last drink in the last chance saloon, if Evans and Menchov are at the base of the Alpe with them, its over.
 
ad9898 said:
An opportunity lost today for CSC, I don't understand Riis, If he leaves everything tommorrow until the Alpe its game over for them. They have the best team but you have to have a very very strong rider to ride away from their rivals on the last climb of the day, they simply do not have a rider like this.

Because of the lost opportunity today they should go for it on the Galibier, if not, the Croix de Fer is absolutely the last drink in the last chance saloon, if Evans and Menchov are at the base of the Alpe with them, its over.

QFT. I estimate that both Frankie and Carlos need at least a 3 min gap on Cadel on the top of l'Alpe d'Huez. It's hard to see how they can pull this off on the last climb.
 
It's a pity that Andy bonked in Hautacam,because it looks like he's the only one of the top riders who could really kick ass.
It really would be huge if Riis sent him right from the start (or first Jens then Andy).That would really put the chase on,but after todays lame stage it's somehow hard to see anything that dramatic happening tomorrow.
 
Cobblestones said:
QFT. I estimate that both Frankie and Carlos need at least a 3 min gap on Cadel on the top of l'Alpe d'Huez. It's hard to see how they can pull this off on the last climb.

Absolutely. They have nothing to lose by going early tomorrow as they have no chance of pulling 3 mins on the last climb.

Send Jens up the Galibier, Andy at the start of the Croix de Fer, then Sastre and Frank can really stretch them.... get the pasta in ya tonight boys your going to need it. :D
 
frost said:
It's a pity that Andy bonked in Hautacam,because it looks like he's the only one of the top riders who could really kick ass.
It really would be huge if Riis sent him right from the start (or first Jens then Andy).That would really put the chase on,but after todays lame stage it's somehow hard to see anything that dramatic happening tomorrow.

Would it make sense though? He's 9 min down. You could let him go quite a while before getting concerned. On the other hand, he could be very valuable as domestique on the Croix de Fer or even the Galibier. In your scenario, he could become a stepping stone, but how well would he be able work after ~80 km soloing?
 
ad9898 said:
An opportunity lost today for CSC, I don't understand Riis, If he leaves everything tommorrow until the Alpe its game over for them. They have the best team but you have to have a very very strong rider to ride away from their rivals on the last climb of the day, they simply do not have a rider like this.

Because of the lost opportunity today they should go for it on the Galibier, if not, the Croix de Fer is absolutely the last drink in the last chance saloon, if Evans and Menchov are at the base of the Alpe with them, its over.
Agree with that. There is no way in which they can put in any big chunk of time into Evans or Menchov if they are with the CSC boys at the base of d'Huez. Evans can hold on by sucking wheels if all they do is set a high pace. To shake him off, they have to keep attacking. In all the uphill finishes in this Tour, the favourites have been together until the base of the final climb. I hope tomorrow will be different. Well, otherwise, they are basically handing over the jersey in the ITT.

It is a bit surprising that they didn't attack in Restefond today. Considering how the descent went, I'm sure that they could have blown away some people if they attacked in the climb.
 
Cobblestones said:
Would it make sense though? He's 9 min down. You could let him go quite a while before getting concerned. On the other hand, he could be very valuable as domestique on the Croix de Fer or even the Galibier. In your scenario, he could become a stepping stone, but how well would he be able work after ~80 km soloing?
In order for this to work, he has to be in a group and then drop back like Cancellara did in the Pyrenees. It is useless if he is in a solo break.
 
TheDarkLord said:
Agree with that. There is no way in which they can put in any big chunk of time into Evans or Menchov if they are with the CSC boys at the base of d'Huez. Evans can hold on by sucking wheels if all they do is set a high pace. To shake him off, they have to keep attacking. In all the uphill finishes in this Tour, the favourites have been together until the base of the final climb. I hope tomorrow will be different. Well, otherwise, they are basically handing over the jersey in the ITT.

It is a bit surprising that they didn't attack in Restefond today. Considering how the descent went, I'm sure that they could have blown away some people if they attacked in the climb.

So we all agree: It's going to be happening on Iron-cross mountain.
 
As for Evans, what he should have done today is try to attack in the last km of the climb, not to gain time but just to show that he can actually ride without someone in front of him, he really does suck wheels badly. It looks bad for the tour if he does win in the style he has used.

Every winner of the tour I can remember attacked at least once in the 3 weeks of the race.
 
ad9898 said:
As for Evans, what he should have done today is try to attack in the last km of the climb, not to gain time but just to show that he can actually ride without someone in front of him, he really does suck wheels badly. It looks bad for the tour if he does win in the style he has used.

Every winner of the tour I can remember attacked at least once in the 3 weeks of the race.
He did attack....the guy who touched his wittle wion, the guy who got near his accessory dog, the guy who just wanted to get a mic in for an interview, and today he headbutted 2 cameras....He will attack anyone but his rivals. THAT guy is the biggest tool on wheels we have seen in some time.
 
ad9898 said:
As for Evans, what he should have done today is try to attack in the last km of the climb, not to gain time but just to show that he can actually ride without someone in front of him, he really does suck wheels badly. It looks bad for the tour if he does win in the style he has used.

Every winner of the tour I can remember attacked at least once in the 3 weeks of the race.
He did attack at Hautacam when he saw that Kirchen was getting back to the bunch. But I agree that it is not enough to shake his reputation as a wheel sucker.
 
Cobblestones said:
Would it make sense though? He's 9 min down. You could let him go quite a while before getting concerned. On the other hand, he could be very valuable as domestique on the Croix de Fer or even the Galibier. In your scenario, he could become a stepping stone, but how well would he be able work after ~80 km soloing?

You're right, 9 minutes is too much and solo going is not a realistic scenario.
But interesting it would be.Who would keep the pace if CSC suddenly refuses to work?
 
adamastor said:
Frank did not look good today. If he didn't attack, it's because he couldn't. CSC tried to get rid of the top 8, but didn't succeed. As simple as that.
With the camera angles I saw, Frank was always hidden behind the guys up front, so I really couldn't read his body language. Same for Evans, though the little glimpse I caught made it seem like he was struggling; then again, he usually looks that way to me once the road goes uphill.

I think we all agree that CSC didn't get a good return on the energy they invested today. The steady pacing played right into Evans' strength. Maybe they should have sent Andy and Sastre on an attack, and let Frank mark Cadel. Even if both Frank and Sastre weren't feeling it today, I would have guessed both could deal with slow/fast/slow/fast tempo on the climb better than Cadel. Even if you don't shake him, at least wear him out for tomorrow. Overall, terrible game plan by Riis.

Agree with earlier posts that CSC will really need to launch attacks before the last climb. And vary the tempo a lot; make Cadel close lots of gaps. Otherwise, just hand him the yellow jersey.
 
thoughtforfood said:
He did attack....the guy who touched his wittle wion, the guy who got near his accessory dog, the guy who just wanted to get a mic in for an interview, and today he headbutted 2 cameras....He will attack anyone but his rivals. THAT guy is the biggest tool on wheels we have seen in some time.

Never thought of that, ****, your right he is the most aggressive rider the tour has ever seen.. :D