CTC - the premier campaigning uselessness for UK cyclists

[Ian Jackson]

On the 5th of September I emailed [email protected]:

As I've reported in the newsgroup cam.transport, I've had an appeal
upheld by the Independent Police Complaints Commission about the way
the police handled my complaint about the fact that they didn't
prosecute a taxi driver who rammed me from behind in December
(throwing me off my bike in front of three independent witnesses).
The complaint has been sent back to the constabulary for them to do
it properly this time.

I would like to try to make as much capital out of this as possible,
in terms of improving the treatment of cyclists by the Cambridgeshire
Constabulary.

Are the CTC or the CDF interested and do you have any suggestions for
me ? The police are supposed to get back to me and it would be good
for me to have a clear idea what I would like to get out of them.

My current thoughts are that I would like an apology in writing and a
promise to take incidents of bad driving directed against pedestrians
and cyclists seriously, even if there is no injury or collision.

(All the papers, letters, etc. can be found in cam.transport or I can
provide you with copies if you want.)

Of course I haven't had any reply. The Cambridge Cycling Campaign on
the other hand have kept themselves involved, and my MP has been at
least somewhat useful. This isn't the only time I've had the CTC
seem disinterested or useless.

--
Ian Jackson personal email: <[email protected]>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

 

[Arthur Clune]

Ian Jackson wrote:
> On the 5th of September I emailed [email protected]:
>
> As I've reported in the newsgroup cam.transport, I've had an appeal

Two points:

1) Are you a member? If not, it's not that likely
they'll have resources to help. Even if you are,

2) Pointing them to "the newsgroup cam.transport"
isn't very helpful. If someone knows what a newsgroup
is then they'll find it's not widely carried and
the odds are high the person receiving the email
wouldn't know what a newsgroup is anyway.

A link to the exact thread on Google Groups might have
been more helpful, or even better a summary.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

 

[Tony Raven]

In article <xJD*[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> My current thoughts are that I would like an apology in writing and a
> promise to take incidents of bad driving directed against pedestrians
> and cyclists seriously, even if there is no injury or collision.
>

What you want is your apology plus an assurance (with details) that
procedures have been put in place to prevent a reoccurence of your
experience.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

 

[Ian Jackson]

In article <[email protected]>,
Arthur Clune <[email protected]> wrote:
>1) Are you a member? If not, it's not that likely
>they'll have resources to help. Even if you are,

Yes, I am. Do I have to give my membership number when I email them ?
It doesn't suggest on their website that I should.

>2) Pointing them to "the newsgroup cam.transport"
>isn't very helpful. If someone knows what a newsgroup
>is then they'll find it's not widely carried and
>the odds are high the person receiving the email
>wouldn't know what a newsgroup is anyway.

So they could at least write back and say "more details please" !

>A link to the exact thread on Google Groups might have
>been more helpful, or even better a summary.

As you saw, the first paragraph of my email was a summary.

--
Ian Jackson personal email: <[email protected]>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

 

[7@m3 G33k]

Ian Jackson wrote:
> On the 5th of September I emailed [email protected]:
>
<snip>
>
> Of course I haven't had any reply. The Cambridge Cycling Campaign on
> the other hand have kept themselves involved, and my MP has been at
> least somewhat useful. This isn't the only time I've had the CTC
> seem disinterested or useless.
>

Surprise, surprise you got a better response from a local cycling
organisation that from a national campaigning and policy organisation.
I'm sure your incident and subsequent dealings with indifferent plods
were of great significance to you and probably should be of significance
to cyclists in your area. So the CCC are involved, that's great.

But put yourself in the shoes of the CTC nationally. Not an organisation
with financial and human resources coming out of it's ears. In fairness
I can't see your particular campaign figuring on their list of
priorities simply due to lack of resources.

Also I think you'll find local campaigns are far more likely to gain
support from national organisations if there is more of a groundswell of
local organisation around an issue. So have you contacted the *local*
CTC branches and perhaps local cycling clubs? And in fairness do you
think that some poor sod in CTC head office with a million and one
things to do is more or less likely to give you a call back when you
publicly accuse the organisation of disinterest and uselessness?

Give the CTC a break - they try to do a good job in a fairly
cycling-unfriendly country with very limited resources.

Ian

 

[Andy Leighton]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:18:53 GMT, 7@m3 G33k <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ian Jackson wrote:
>> On the 5th of September I emailed [email protected]:
>>
><snip>
>>
>> Of course I haven't had any reply. The Cambridge Cycling Campaign on
>> the other hand have kept themselves involved, and my MP has been at
>> least somewhat useful. This isn't the only time I've had the CTC
>> seem disinterested or useless.
>>
>
> Surprise, surprise you got a better response from a local cycling
> organisation that from a national campaigning and policy organisation.
> I'm sure your incident and subsequent dealings with indifferent plods
> were of great significance to you and probably should be of significance
> to cyclists in your area. So the CCC are involved, that's great.
>
> But put yourself in the shoes of the CTC nationally. Not an organisation
> with financial and human resources coming out of it's ears. In fairness
> I can't see your particular campaign figuring on their list of
> priorities simply due to lack of resources.

I disagree. Surely what they could do is draft a public letter to the
members of ACPO pointing out the IPCC finding in Cambridge and stress the
importance of their forces not failing in a similar manner and exhort
upon them to make sure that their force is properly trained to deal
with such incidents and follow them up in an appropriate manner. We
have seen reports here of similar cases of police forces not really
taking such incidents seriously so although Ian's particular case is
local it has national importance.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[7@m3 G33k]

Andy Leighton wrote:
>
> I disagree. Surely what they could do is draft a public letter to the
> members of ACPO pointing out the IPCC finding in Cambridge and stress the
> importance of their forces not failing in a similar manner and exhort
> upon them to make sure that their force is properly trained to deal
> with such incidents and follow them up in an appropriate manner. We
> have seen reports here of similar cases of police forces not really
> taking such incidents seriously so although Ian's particular case is
> local it has national importance.
>

Or maybe they have already done this *privately* in the interests of
maintaining a good working relationship with ACPO. This is of course a
judgement call whether or not to go public, it's only in the world of
Usenet (and possibly the Daily Mail) that screaming at the moon from the
rooftops is the preferred means of persuasion and debate.

Ian

 

[Andy Leighton]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:04:57 GMT, 7@m3 G33k <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andy Leighton wrote:
>>
>> I disagree. Surely what they could do is draft a public letter to the
>> members of ACPO pointing out the IPCC finding in Cambridge and stress the
>> importance of their forces not failing in a similar manner and exhort
>> upon them to make sure that their force is properly trained to deal
>> with such incidents and follow them up in an appropriate manner. We
>> have seen reports here of similar cases of police forces not really
>> taking such incidents seriously so although Ian's particular case is
>> local it has national importance.
>>
>
> Or maybe they have already done this *privately* in the interests of
> maintaining a good working relationship with ACPO.

Possibly. I would still expect an email to Ian saying thanks for
bringing it to their attention and that they have privately followed
up with ACPO.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[Andy Leighton]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:04:57 GMT, 7@m3 G33k <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andy Leighton wrote:
>>
>> I disagree. Surely what they could do is draft a public letter to the
>> members of ACPO pointing out the IPCC finding in Cambridge and stress the
>> importance of their forces not failing in a similar manner and exhort
>> upon them to make sure that their force is properly trained to deal
>> with such incidents and follow them up in an appropriate manner. We
>> have seen reports here of similar cases of police forces not really
>> taking such incidents seriously so although Ian's particular case is
>> local it has national importance.
>>
>
> Or maybe they have already done this *privately* in the interests of
> maintaining a good working relationship with ACPO.

Possibly. I would still expect an email to Ian saying thanks for
bringing it to their attention and that they have privately followed
up with ACPO.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[Trevor A Panther]

"Ian Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:xJD*[email protected]...
> On the 5th of September I emailed [email protected]:
>
> As I've reported in the newsgroup cam.transport, I've had an appeal
> upheld by the Independent Police Complaints Commission about the way
> the police handled my complaint about the fact that they didn't
> prosecute a taxi driver who rammed me from behind in December
> (throwing me off my bike in front of three independent witnesses).
> The complaint has been sent back to the constabulary for them to do
> it properly this time.
>
> I would like to try to make as much capital out of this as possible,
> in terms of improving the treatment of cyclists by the Cambridgeshire
> Constabulary.
>
> Are the CTC or the CDF interested and do you have any suggestions for
> me ? The police are supposed to get back to me and it would be good
> for me to have a clear idea what I would like to get out of them.
>
> My current thoughts are that I would like an apology in writing and a
> promise to take incidents of bad driving directed against pedestrians
> and cyclists seriously, even if there is no injury or collision.
>
> (All the papers, letters, etc. can be found in cam.transport or I can
> provide you with copies if you want.)
>
> Of course I haven't had any reply. The Cambridge Cycling Campaign on
> the other hand have kept themselves involved, and my MP has been at
> least somewhat useful. This isn't the only time I've had the CTC
> seem disinterested or useless.
>
> --
> Ian Jackson personal email:
> <[email protected]>
> These opinions are my own.
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
> PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E
> FCF37657

Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.

It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

 

[burtthebike]

"Trevor A Panther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
>
> It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues

Let's actually be truthful: local CTC sections are interested in local
issues, with or without inverted commas.

The CTC promotes cycling generally, and the CTC specifically.

Are you a member Trevor, or just a moaner?

 

[Peter Clinch]

Trevor A Panther wrote:

> Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
>
> It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues

CTC has District Associations, part of CTC, which are, pretty much by
definition, interested in local issues. It's rather disingenuous IMHO
to try and pretend head office and local branches are nothing to do with
one another.

If I had a local cycling issue I wanted to talk about I'd probably start
with Tayside DA.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Arthur Clune]

Ian Jackson wrote:
>
> Yes, I am. Do I have to give my membership number when I email them ?
> It doesn't suggest on their website that I should.

It seems the obvious thing to do. Any membership organisation
will (and should IMO) give priority to its members.

> As you saw, the first paragraph of my email was a summary.

I didn't find enough detail in their to decide on the merits
of the case. Why make it hard for people?

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

 

[Ekul Namsob]

burtthebike <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Trevor A Panther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
> >
> > It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues
>
> Let's actually be truthful: local CTC sections are interested in local
> issues, with or without inverted commas.
>
> The CTC promotes cycling generally, and the CTC specifically.
>
> Are you a member Trevor, or just a moaner?

I wouldn't wish to speak for Trevor, but when I was considering joining
the CTC this spring, their complete failure to do anything public about
the Highway Code was enough to make me decide not to join them.

It's all well and good doing things in private, but it's not a good way
to get or keep members.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

 

[marc]

Ekul Namsob wrote:
> burtthebike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Trevor A Panther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
>>>
>>> It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues
>> Let's actually be truthful: local CTC sections are interested in local
>> issues, with or without inverted commas.
>>
>> The CTC promotes cycling generally, and the CTC specifically.
>>
>> Are you a member Trevor, or just a moaner?
>
> I wouldn't wish to speak for Trevor, but when I was considering joining
> the CTC this spring, their complete failure to do anything public about
> the Highway Code was enough to make me decide not to join them.
>


The article in today's CTC magazine seems to show that they were a bit
swan like during that period.

 

[burtthebike]

"Ekul Namsob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1i5403b.998lxw1e2i3o0N%[email protected]...
> burtthebike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Trevor A Panther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> >
>> > Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
>> >
>> > It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues
>>
>> Let's actually be truthful: local CTC sections are interested in local
>> issues, with or without inverted commas.
>>
>> The CTC promotes cycling generally, and the CTC specifically.
>>
>> Are you a member Trevor, or just a moaner?
>
> I wouldn't wish to speak for Trevor, but when I was considering joining
> the CTC this spring, their complete failure to do anything public about
> the Highway Code was enough to make me decide not to join them.

Not doing anything? so that's why it was changed then. And what did you
do?

 

[Ekul Namsob]

burtthebike <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ekul Namsob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1i5403b.998lxw1e2i3o0N%[email protected]...

> > I wouldn't wish to speak for Trevor, but when I was considering joining
> > the CTC this spring, their complete failure to do anything public about
> > the Highway Code was enough to make me decide not to join them.
>
> Not doing anything? so that's why it was changed then. And what did you
> do?

I wrote to my MP and signed the online petition. This being a
parliamentary democracy, it's just possible that pressure from MPs
helped to change the Code.

What about you?

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

 

[burtthebike]

"Ekul Namsob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1i546dw.1pwxifb1csox1pN%[email protected]...
> burtthebike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Ekul Namsob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:1i5403b.998lxw1e2i3o0N%[email protected]...
>
>> > I wouldn't wish to speak for Trevor, but when I was considering joining
>> > the CTC this spring, their complete failure to do anything public about
>> > the Highway Code was enough to make me decide not to join them.
>>
>> Not doing anything? so that's why it was changed then. And what did you
>> do?
>
> I wrote to my MP and signed the online petition. This being a
> parliamentary democracy, it's just possible that pressure from MPs
> helped to change the Code.
>
> What about you?
>
> Cheers,
> Luke

Well Luke, like you I wrote to my MP, and signed the online petition, but I
did so in response to the request from the CTC, which organised the action
opposing the the godawful new rules in the highway code. Why did you write
and sign the petition? I wonder if it's because someone from the CTC told
you about it? Or perhaps it was just coincidence?

 

[burtthebike]

"burtthebike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Trevor A Panther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
>>
>> It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues
>
> Let's actually be truthful: local CTC sections are interested in local
> issues, with or without inverted commas.
>
> The CTC promotes cycling generally, and the CTC specifically.
>
> Are you a member Trevor, or just a moaner?

Since Trevor himself won't respond, I think we can deduce that the first is
not true, but the second is. Anyone who expects a membership organisation
to take action for non-members and then complains that they don't has not
been circumcised*

*a complete *****.

 

[burtthebike]

"burtthebike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Trevor A Panther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> Let's be basic. CTC will only promote CTC.
>>
>> It is totally self sustaining and not interested in "local" issues
>
> Let's actually be truthful: local CTC sections are interested in local
> issues, with or without inverted commas.
>
> The CTC promotes cycling generally, and the CTC specifically.
>
> Are you a member Trevor, or just a moaner?

Since Trevor himself won't respond, I think we can deduce that the first is
not true, but the second is. Anyone who expects a membership organisation
to take action for non-members and then complains that they don't has not
been circumcised*

*a complete *****.