Cup & Cone Bottom Brackets - Any Sources?

[Hands Of Stone]

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper). Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site. Any ideas?

 

[landotter]

On Mar 25, 6:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> (JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?


Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
and a steal at $15.

 

[Gary Young]

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:29:35 -0700, Hands Of Stone wrote:

> I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> (JIS square taper). Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> longer shown on his site. Any ideas?

Icycleusa.com has some of the Ritchey spindles:

<http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?
CS=icycles&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=452449977&Count2=369590401&CategoryID=42&Target=products.asp>

 

[[email protected]]

On Mar 25, 7:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> (JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

have a look:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-315905.html

 

[Donald Gillies]

Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> writes:

>I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
>(JIS square taper). Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
>longer shown on his site. Any ideas?

I don't think that anyone is making 'high quality' cup-and-cone
BB spindles any more. High quality cups can be easily sourced from
harris cyclery or biketoolsetc or through any QBC bike shop.

A high-quality BB spindle is hollow chromoly, and accepts M8 bolts.

A low-quality BB spindle is solid and nutted, aka the sugino maxy
series with the funny letter-based size-codes.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[datakoll]

try loosescrews, biketoolsect, universal cycles, EPDI, Jenson, Harris
Cyclery

Shimano makes a set as does Pyramid-see J&B Importers

there are chrome moly spindles if urine too that kinda thing

 

[Hank]

On Mar 25, 6:09 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 25, 6:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> > (JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> > longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?
>
> Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
> believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
> being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
> and a steal at $15.

I bought one 2 weeks ago (for $10!) and it is indeed MUCH nicer than I
expected. Alloy cups, very smooth bearings, very little seal drag.
Made by TH Industries, AKA RPM, as you say. I'd intended on stealing
the Truvativ out of another bike and using the Nashbar to replace it
when I built my new CX, but this turned out to be the nicer part. I
was quite impressed.

 

[datakoll]

..

YEAH GET THE CARTRIDGE ride like Allworth
take a look at the winter sale items-terramar balaclava and mid
weight Nbar tights a steal.
but wash carefully before wearing. Mex aren't rinsing after dyed cloth

 

[Hands Of Stone]

On Mar 25, 6:09 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 25, 6:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> > (JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> > longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?
>
> Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
> believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
> being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
> and a steal at $15.

No, I have nothing against cartridge. I just like everything about
the old-school BBs (except for the fixed cup): I run'em cageless with
a few extra balls, regrease and replace bearings (cheaply) when
needed, plus I like being able to adjust the bearings. Why fix what
ain't broke? Having said that, I may go with your idea as I am always
a sucker for a good deal.

 

[Hands Of Stone]

On Mar 25, 3:56 pm, datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
> .
>
> YEAH GET THE CARTRIDGE ride like Allworth
> take a look at the winter sale items-terramar  balaclava and mid
> weight Nbar tights a steal.
> but wash carefully before wearing. Mex aren't rinsing after dyed cloth

Ha ha - get a free rash with every purchase? Good advice. I did
manange to find a NOS Lightspeed TItanium BB (cartridge, still in the
box, and unused, from 1990!) in my parts bins. But it's almost too
crazy-light for me to trust....

 

[landotter]

On Mar 26, 1:48 pm, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 25, 6:09 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 25, 6:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> > > (JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> > > longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?
>
> > Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
> > believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
> > being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
> > and a steal at $15.
>
> No, I have nothing against cartridge.  I just like everything about
> the old-school BBs (except for the fixed cup): I run'em cageless with
> a few extra balls, regrease and replace bearings (cheaply) when
> needed, plus I like being able to adjust the bearings.  Why fix what
> ain't broke?  Having said that, I may go with your idea as I am always
> a sucker for a good deal.

It's a stupidly nice BB for the money. As much as I like loose ball
hubs and headsets, which are easy to maintain--I do love cartridge
BBs. I've never managed to wear one out--though the most miles I ever
put on one was 30K on a UN73. It's a superior technology, for sure.
Careful with the alloy cups, btw--you'll want to use loctite, these
guys like to work loose if assembled with grease.

 

[[email protected]]

landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 25, 6:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
> > (JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
> > longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?


> Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
> believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
> being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
> and a steal at $15.


Jobst Brandt

 

[Donald Gillies]

datakoll <[email protected]> writes:
>
>try ... EPDI, ...
>

EPDI ?? The European Post Doctoral Institute ??

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

 

[[email protected]]

The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from ancient
times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned before, if it
has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the thread being a crude
patch for the design problem, just as it is for pedal threads that
fail in spite of the orientation.

Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that tends
to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank faces, pedals
regardless of tightening, move in their contact with the crank and by
fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads to cracks that
cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to the ground if
standing at the moment of failure.

Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened to
nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are used
today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the right hand
cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time depending on which
of the two is the harder material. With steel hardened bearing cups,
the BB shell loses all its threads while with aluminum cups, the right
hand cup loses its threads.

Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup frets
in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current design
especially with cartridge bearings.

In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
problem.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Tom Sherman]

[email protected] aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from ancient
> times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned before, if it
> has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the thread being a crude
> patch for the design problem, just as it is for pedal threads that
> fail in spite of the orientation.
>
> Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that tends
> to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank faces, pedals
> regardless of tightening, move in their contact with the crank and by
> fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads to cracks that
> cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to the ground if
> standing at the moment of failure.
>
> Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
> thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened to
> nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are used
> today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the right hand
> cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time depending on which
> of the two is the harder material. With steel hardened bearing cups,
> the BB shell loses all its threads while with aluminum cups, the right
> hand cup loses its threads.
>
> Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
> spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
> bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup frets
> in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current design
> especially with cartridge bearings.
>
> In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
> maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
> problem.
>
I just throw out the bicycle if I have problems with the bottom bracket.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[[email protected]]

Tom Sherman wrote:

>> The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from
>> ancient times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned
>> before, if it has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the
>> thread being a crude patch for the design problem, just as it is
>> for pedal threads that fail in spite of the orientation.

>> Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that
>> tends to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank
>> faces, pedals regardless of tightening, move in their contact with
>> the crank and by fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads
>> to cracks that cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to
>> the ground if standing at the moment of failure.

>> Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
>> thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened
>> to nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are
>> used today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the
>> right hand cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time
>> depending on which of the two is the harder material. With steel
>> hardened bearing cups, the BB shell loses all its threads while
>> with aluminum cups, the right hand cup loses its threads.

>> Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
>> spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
>> bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup
>> frets in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current
>> design especially with cartridge bearings.

>> In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
>> maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
>> problem.

> I just throw out the bicycle if I have problems with the bottom
> bracket.

In contrast, I had my involuntarily threadless BB bored out and a
hardened threaded steel sleeve silver soldered to keep my custom frame
of many years in service. I have a great frame builder and bikie
friend who has great metal working skills who also made the pedal
crank modification which solved the pedal to crank problem.

Jobst Brandt

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>>> The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from
>>> ancient times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned
>>> before, if it has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the
>>> thread being a crude patch for the design problem, just as it is
>>> for pedal threads that fail in spite of the orientation.
>
>>> Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that
>>> tends to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank
>>> faces, pedals regardless of tightening, move in their contact with
>>> the crank and by fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads
>>> to cracks that cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to
>>> the ground if standing at the moment of failure.
>
>>> Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
>>> thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened
>>> to nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are
>>> used today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the
>>> right hand cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time
>>> depending on which of the two is the harder material. With steel
>>> hardened bearing cups, the BB shell loses all its threads while
>>> with aluminum cups, the right hand cup loses its threads.
>
>>> Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
>>> spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
>>> bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup
>>> frets in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current
>>> design especially with cartridge bearings.
>
>>> In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
>>> maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
>>> problem.
>
>> I just throw out the bicycle if I have problems with the bottom
>> bracket.
>
> In contrast, I had my involuntarily threadless BB bored out and a
> hardened threaded steel sleeve silver soldered to keep my custom frame
> of many years in service.

otoh, by not simply replacing a worn out frame, you're deliberately
avoiding bothering to research improvements in frame design such as
over-size tube which help mitigate shimmy. or aluminum. or carbon. as
someone that like to express opinion on these materials, the least you
should do is bother to actually use them.


> I have a great frame builder and bikie
> friend who has great metal working skills who also made the pedal
> crank modification which solved the pedal to crank problem.

what "crank problem" is that? when is the last time you saw pedal eye
breakage on an "unmodified" crank?

 

[Tom Sherman]

"jim beam" wrote:
> [...]
> otoh, by not simply replacing a worn out frame, you're deliberately
> avoiding bothering to research improvements in frame design such as
> over-size tube which help mitigate shimmy. or aluminum.

Aluminium makes for a very poor frame. Aluminium alloy with proper heat
treatment can make a perfectly fine frame however.

> or carbon.

Just carbon? Is this a diamond frame (pun intended)?

> as
> someone that like to express opinion on these materials, the least you
> should do is bother to actually use them.
>
One would think a former materials scientist would be more precise in
terminology. Even a "lightweight" knows better.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[still just me]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:28:35 -0700, jim beam
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>otoh, by not simply replacing a worn out frame, you're deliberately
>avoiding bothering to research improvements in frame design such as
>over-size tube which help mitigate shimmy. or aluminum. or carbon. as
>someone that like to express opinion on these materials, the least you
>should do is bother to actually use them.

otooh, but fixing a frame that is otherwise still serviceable he not
only avoids wasting resources but keeps a valued old friend by his
side for years to come.

Not everyone buys into the throwaway world or has to always run with
the supposedly latest and greatest.

Of course, since you're goal wasn't really to comment intelligently on
the thread, but instead just to flame Jobst, I guess that's
irrelevant.

 

[datakoll]

On Mar 26, 7:46 pm, [email protected] (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> datakoll <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >try ...  EPDI, ...
>
> EPDI ??  The European Post Doctoral Institute ??
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA

EPDI stocks EOM Shimano back to year one. They're in Bakersfield