Custom Built Rim Recommendations

Mister C said:

Thanks for the Reply Peter. After much consideration I have decided against the King hubs. I have also thought more about what I want to do with this new bike and that includes some loaded touring on the C&O Canal and Allegheny Highlands trail. That is pretty harsh riding conditions for any hub and I would really be a shame to break down on the trail miles from anywhere. So, am now looking at Hadley hubs due to LBS recommendation. Hadleys are supposedly bomb proof and extremely reliable. Yeah, they are heavy hubs but I am willing to take on some weight for the reliability factor.

Anyone have experience with the Hadley hubs? Any thoughts on those?

What is the spacing in the frame: 130 or 135?
We had Hadley hubs that came with our Santana tandem, but have gone to Shimano and Phil Wood now.
The engagement system and bearing retaining systems both gave us problems after a few months of mostly dry road riding.
I think that conventional Shimano hubs are hard to beat for reliability and serviceabilty... with easy to find parts and tools.
If you go with Hadley, I suggest you carry your own spare parts and special tools as a breakdown will strand you in most places, as the parts (especially the cartridge needle bearings) are not easy to find; and there is a wrench size (I think it is 21 mm) that isn't all that easy to find either.
If your frame has 135 mm spacing it is hard to beat Shimano XT for reliability, servicability, and Total Cost of Ownership. Botique hubs may display some interesting features, but it is hard to beat the industry leader: Shimano.

jackchoo said:

Looks like its more than likely I'll stick with Ultegras....over here, the Dura Ace hubs are like USD10 more compared to Ultegra (F+R) amazing.....

Ok, I've done a little phone marketing research here are there and here are the options for RIMS that I have now....

- DT Swiss RR 1.1 (recommended by another LBS, prob because they carry it...)
- Velocity Deep V (seems like some guys swear by these rims...Aussies ones right?)
- Mavic Open Pro (recommended by the builder I intend to use)

All the rims above cost about the same.

I want a strong wheel that will last me a long long time, and I don't race....appreciate absolutely any ideas on the above rims...THANKS!

I still think you should look at Mavic CXP-33 rims, laced to Ultegra hubs with DT Swiss double-butted spokes.

That is my definition of bomb-proof wheels.

Super

daveornee said:

What is the spacing in the frame: 130 or 135?
We had Hadley hubs that came with our Santana tandem, but have gone to Shimano and Phil Wood now.
The engagement system and bearing retaining systems both gave us problems after a few months of mostly dry road riding.
I think that conventional Shimano hubs are hard to beat for reliability and serviceabilty... with easy to find parts and tools.
If you go with Hadley, I suggest you carry your own spare parts and special tools as a breakdown will strand you in most places, as the parts (especially the cartridge needle bearings) are not easy to find; and there is a wrench size (I think it is 21 mm) that isn't all that easy to find either.
If your frame has 135 mm spacing it is hard to beat Shimano XT for reliability, servicability, and Total Cost of Ownership. Botique hubs may display some interesting features, but it is hard to beat the industry leader: Shimano.

Thanks for the reply Daveornee. Spacing is 135. I find it very interesting that the Hadleys gave you problems on your tandem. I have only heard positive reports about Hadleys and thought that Santana spec'd them because of their reliability. I love the Santana tandems btw...they would be on the top of my list if I could find a stoker.

The LBS originally recommended the Shimano XTs. They sure are alot cheaper than the Hadleys. I am headed the LBS for a fitting tomorrow and will chat with the owner more about this issue.

All the best,

Mister C

Funny how this thread sort of went off in two different directions at the same time😕 .

kdelong said:

Funny how this thread sort of went off in two different directions at the same time😕 .

Sorry about that. I had a very similar issue and was hoping it wasn't too much of a threadjack. I appreciate the advice given to jackchoo as it helps me understand custom wheelbuilding.

Mister C said:

Sorry about that. I had a very similar issue and was hoping it wasn't too much of a threadjack. I appreciate the advice given to jackchoo as it helps me understand custom wheelbuilding.

No problem, no harm, although it did get confusing trying to figure out who was answering whom at times😉 .

still need inputs.....

- DT Swiss RR 1.1 (recommended by another LBS, prob because they carry it...)
- Velocity Deep V (seems like some guys swear by these rims...Aussies ones right?)
- Mavic Open Pro (recommended by the builder I intend to use)

jackchoo said:

still need inputs.....

- DT Swiss RR 1.1 (recommended by another LBS, prob because they carry it...)
- Velocity Deep V (seems like some guys swear by these rims...Aussies ones right?)
- Mavic Open Pro (recommended by the builder I intend to use)

Velocity Deep is the strongest, but the heaviest of this group.
DT Swiss RR 1.1 and Velocity Fusion are about the same in weight and rim height. DT uses either single eyelet or eyelet + socket; Velocity uses neither on the Fusion. I like them equally and find the performance of them about the same.
I don't have much good to say about Mavic, so I will refrain from further comments.

jackchoo said:

Looks like its more than likely I'll stick with Ultegras....over here, the Dura Ace hubs are like USD10 more compared to Ultegra (F+R) amazing.....

Ok, I've done a little phone marketing research here are there and here are the options for RIMS that I have now....

- DT Swiss RR 1.1 (recommended by another LBS, prob because they carry it...)
- Velocity Deep V (seems like some guys swear by these rims...Aussies ones right?)
- Mavic Open Pro (recommended by the builder I intend to use)

All the rims above cost about the same.

I want a strong wheel that will last me a long long time, and I don't race....appreciate absolutely any ideas on the above rims...THANKS!

The three rims are much different. Mavic is not the most reliable, Deep Vs are more akin to Dt 1.2. DT 1.1 a great rim but double eyelet is 32h only(36 and 28 are single eyelet.

I would recommend the DT 1.2.......

Peter@vecchios said:

36 h wheels being 'overkill'? Don't get this, will NEVER get this. 4 spokes weigh 28 grams, an ounce. 36h is stronger that 32, all else being equal. There is NO penalty for using 4 more spokes to have a more reliable wheel..none, zero, nada, zippo. BUT having a wheel got to hell when it is built 'too light' ruins your day. Unless you are worried about 'coffee shop points' before your Sunday ride, use 36.

I never got this arguement either. I used to ride, in training, 36 spoke wheels all the time, even though I was only 145lb. (Chorus hubs, 7 speed freewheel, Mavic Open 4CD rims). I still have those wheels, even though they were built in 1989, and the only battlescar they've collected is a slight 'ding' in the edge of the rim where a pothole the size of the meteor crater in Arizona, took a bite at it at 50mph. All those "wasted miles" done during weekend clubruns through the crappy roads of North Western England and off into the hills were no match for these wheels. The only maintenance they ever required was regreasing 4 or 5 times a year and new rim tape once a year "just because". Then again Paul Hewitt is a damn good wheel builder.

looks like i will be going for the more popular build

- 32 spokes
- Ultegra hubs
- Mavic Open Pro Rims

Hope these will be a lasting set for me....at least i will still have my shimano R540 as backup..

swampy1970 said:

I never got this arguement either. I used to ride, in training, 36 spoke wheels all the time, even though I was only 145lb. (Chorus hubs, 7 speed freewheel, Mavic Open 4CD rims). I still have those wheels, even though they were built in 1989, and the only battlescar they've collected is a slight 'ding' in the edge of the rim where a pothole the size of the meteor crater in Arizona, took a bite at it at 50mph. All those "wasted miles" done during weekend clubruns through the crappy roads of North Western England and off into the hills were no match for these wheels. The only maintenance they ever required was regreasing 4 or 5 times a year and new rim tape once a year "just because". Then again Paul Hewitt is a damn good wheel builder.

Yep, I giggle when somebody talks about a wheel design being 'overkill', as if those 4 spokes will cause him to lose the stop sigh sprint.

We do quite well truing poorly designed wheels, poorly built, from other builders or wheelsouttaboxes. Often, after the thing finally goes to hell and the rider wees his $850 fly away, we design and build him a decent set...for less $. No big decals and red or gold spokes but.....the bike/wheels are there to get you there, nothing more.

Just to close the loop I have decided on Hadley hubs laced up to Mavic Open pro rims with 36 DT Swiss 14 gauge spokes and brass nipples. After much research the Hadley hubs seem the most bombproof and have a fast engagement.

I agree with the other posters concerning 36 spoke count--a few extra grams for the additional spokes is nothing and gives the wheelset much more reliability and strength. Brass nipples should also help durability (I had an alloy nipple corrode on another set of wheels which caused a spoke faliure (on a 36 spoke wheel, nonetheless).

Thanks to all who provided advice,

Mister C

sorry guys....still some questions. Basically, I've bought the Ultegra hubs but....still a little confused over rims.

apart from the open-pro which i'm more or less swaying towards, there is the Velocity Aerohead which offers 'some' aerodynamic-ism. The difference is in the eyelets; the open pros have double eyelets while the aerohead does not....is this a problem or will the V shaped aerohead perform just as well not having eyelets (in terms of strength....i do not want the nipple ripped out of the eyes...) ?

Also, over here the we cannot get the aerohead O/C (off centre version) for the rear...can i just use the normal aerohead? read that the OC will make only significant difference for new campy hubs...true?

Thanks!

jackchoo said:

apart from the open-pro which i'm more or less swaying towards, there is the Velocity Aerohead which offers 'some' aerodynamic-ism. The difference is in the eyelets; the open pros have double eyelets while the aerohead does not....is this a problem or will the V shaped aerohead perform just as well not having eyelets (in terms of strength....i do not want the nipple ripped out of the eyes...) ?

Also, over here the we cannot get the aerohead O/C (off centre version) for the rear...can i just use the normal aerohead? read that the OC will make only significant difference for new campy hubs...true?

Thanks!

Eyelets probably make little difference to rim strength. I (87kg) have used the Aerohead OC rim and found that it failed at about 8000km due to fatigue cracks unrelated to the holes. I had problems with spokes repeatedly loosening, so the rim was probably abused unfairly. I can't think of any rim that I have seen failing at the spoke holes, in fact, although I'm told it happens.
Aesthetically, I prefer v-profile rims to box rims and so would never use an Open pro. Each, however, to their own.

Mister C said:

Just to close the loop I have decided on Hadley hubs laced up to Mavic Open pro rims with 36 DT Swiss 14 gauge spokes and brass nipples. After much research the Hadley hubs seem the most bombproof and have a fast engagement.

I agree with the other posters concerning 36 spoke count--a few extra grams for the additional spokes is nothing and gives the wheelset much more reliability and strength. Brass nipples should also help durability (I had an alloy nipple corrode on another set of wheels which caused a spoke faliure (on a 36 spoke wheel, nonetheless).

Thanks to all who provided advice,

Mister C

I would highly recommend 14/15 spokes rather than straight gauge..makes a more durable wheel.

jackchoo said:

sorry guys....still some questions. Basically, I've bought the Ultegra hubs but....still a little confused over rims.

apart from the open-pro which i'm more or less swaying towards, there is the Velocity Aerohead which offers 'some' aerodynamic-ism. The difference is in the eyelets; the open pros have double eyelets while the aerohead does not....is this a problem or will the V shaped aerohead perform just as well not having eyelets (in terms of strength....i do not want the nipple ripped out of the eyes...) ?

Also, over here the we cannot get the aerohead O/C (off centre version) for the rear...can i just use the normal aerohead? read that the OC will make only significant difference for new campy hubs...true?

Thanks!

First, the 'new' Campag hubs are the same dimensionas 'old' Campag hubs, in terms of flange ctr to ctr. OC is a great idea for any rear wheel, using any rear hub.

Remember that Aeroheads are lighter than OpenPros and DT 1.1. No such thing as a free lunch, lighter rim, less robust wheel.

Eyelets or no are just the way the rim was designed. No problem with no eyelet rims as long as they were designed properly.

I'll send ya a OC rim, where are ya??

Peter@vecchios said:

I would highly recommend 14/15 spokes rather than straight gauge..makes a more durable wheel.

Thanks Peter. I will look into that.

hi guys, I'm about to build my wheels up.

One question : my ultegra hubs are brand new. Do I need to do anything to them? like perhaps add grease or re-adjust the tightness etc prior to building/riding? or are they good to go, out of the box?

jackchoo said:

hi guys, I'm about to build my wheels up.

One question : my ultegra hubs are brand new. Do I need to do anything to them? like perhaps add grease or re-adjust the tightness etc prior to building/riding? or are they good to go, out of the box?

Adding some grease and precision adjustments to the bearings under load of tightened QR against fork ends is a good practice. You will find fork ends very handy to make (tweak) the final adjustments. Proper bearing adjustment and good lubrication extend the life of the bearings and make the wheels perform at the highest level possible.
I keep a couple of sets of fork ends around for the purpose of precision bearing adjustment + I use them during final adjustments in addition to the TS-2 truing stand. The addition seems to stiffen the stand.
Sheldon Brown approach shown "Special tool for rapid cone adjustment under load" is his article

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

is a good idea as well.