Custom steel: Curtlo, DeSalvo, Mikkelson, Strong?

[David Mackintos]

I'm looking for a full custom steel road frame (no fork) in the $1000 or less price point. I've
narrowed my search down a bit to the four builders listed in the subject (mostly by price,
reputation, and geographic location), but haven't talked to any of them personally yet. I also
haven't seen their work, other than what's shown on their web sites. I'd love to hear any
recommendations, especially if you've worked with one of these builders, or have had a chance to
compare more than one of them. Would also consider other builders that I may not have found, yet.
I'm real detail-oriented as far as weld or braze quality, slick braze-ons, etc., but will probably
stick with a simple paint/powdercoat scheme.

This is for a large frame with short sloping top tube (around 62x58), and extended head tube. My
main priority is stable handling while descending at high speeds (40-60mph) over sometimes poor
pavement. Also needs to be fairly light for climbing (I live in the Oregon Cascades) and have a
stiff BB. Possibly a mix of OX Platinum and S3 tubes, or something comparable.

-David

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

fallzboater-<< I'm looking for a full custom steel road frame (no fork) in the $1000 or less price
point. >><BR><BR>

Nobilette

http://www.nobilettecycles.com

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Phil Brown]

>(I live in the Oregon Cascades)

Why not a local builder like Jeff Lyon (lyonsport.com) or John Slawa (Landshark)? Phil Brown

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, David Mackintosh
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm looking for a full custom steel road frame (no fork) in the $1000 or less price point. I've
>narrowed my search down a bit to the four builders listed in the subject (mostly by price,
>reputation, and geographic location), but haven't talked to any of them personally yet. I also
>haven't seen their work, other than what's shown on their web sites. I'd love to hear any
>recommendations, especially if you've worked with one of these builders, or have had a chance to
>compare more than one of them. Would also consider other builders that I may not have found, yet.

Well others in Oregon that come to mind:

1. http://www.landsharkbicycles.com/
2. http://www.co-motion.com/
3. http://www.davidsonbicycles.com/
4. http://www.lyonsport.com/

I have seen numerous examples from all builders, they all know what they are doing. All of them
could probably make what you want.

> I'm real detail-oriented as far as weld or braze quality,

Land Shark would be at the top in terms of pretty welds.

The Co-Motion TIG work is also very good if you like that sort of thing. Their stock Nor'wester
would only need a couple modifications to become what you described. They can also make a custom
aluminum bike.

> slick braze-ons, etc., but will probably stick with a simple paint/powdercoat scheme.
>
>This is for a large frame with short sloping top tube (around 62x58), and extended head tube.

I had John Slawta of Land Shark make me a bike very similar to that,
4a1.5 (what he calls a 62cm), 75mm drop, 72.5 seat, 73 head, 210mm head tube, 42.5cm chainstay. Deda
Zero tubing.

> My main priority is stable handling while descending at high speeds (40-60mph) over sometimes
> poor pavement. Also needs to be fairly light for climbing (I live in the Oregon Cascades) and
> have a stiff BB.

I asked for extra stiff myself (I am 170 pounds), having just gotten rid of a noodly frame, and boy
howdy it is as stiff as anything I have seen. Slawta installs large diameter seat stays which are
designed to taper down toward the dropout, but he intentionally installs them upside down so they
are very fat right at the dropouts, welded onto the flat top part of a Breezer-style dropout. In my
bike he added very tall chain stays and a tapered oversize top tube. And a steel fork.
Custom-painted and delivered in 3 weeks.

I will not ask for it to be so stiff next time, since I think you'd need to be a lot bigger than me
to warrant it, and there is a definite weight penalty to "extra stiff" especially when you're
talking about steel.

My other regret is that in opting toward stable handling I get the cornering performance of a
sport touring bike, which is what I asked for. Since I also have "normal" racing geometry bikes to
ride, and I ride some descents on an almost daily basis, it is pretty easy to tell that the
"comfort bike" does not handle nearly as well when it comes to pointing it where you want to go in
a corner at speed.

> Possibly a mix of OX Platinum and S3 tubes, or something comparable.

Consider letting the builder recommend the tubing. You should talk about the end result you want and
let them build it. All good builders will know how to produce their best work. But small builders
often do not stock five brands of tubing. All the major suppliers make good tubes.

Have fun shopping.

--Paul

 

[Tom Ace]

David Mackintosh wrote:

> I'm looking for a full custom steel road frame (no fork) in the $1000 or less price point.

Can I ask why you want steel? I'm not suggesting it's a bad choice, I'm just curious what your
reasons are.

Tom Ace

 

[Fred Roses]

Since other posters have been mentioniog framebuilders in Oregon I'd like to mention Vanilla
Bicycles in Portland. http://www.vanillabicycles.com. But we should all remember the op specified a
budget of $1000. I have a beautiful Landshark frame myself but I believe his prices are higher, and
justified, I believe, by the lovely fillet brazing and unique paint jobs. I think the op probably
has in mind tig-welding and powder coating.

 

[Fred Roses]

I have a little experience with Carl Strong - he made a stem for me. And I must say he responded to
my email inquiry quite promptly, he delivered exactly when he promised, and the finished product is
perfect and beautifully made.

 

[David Mackintos]

[email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote in message
news:<Uikbb.37738$A%[email protected]>...
> I had John Slawta of Land Shark make me a bike very similar to that,
> 60x57.5 (what he calls a 62cm), 75mm drop, 72.5 seat, 73 head, 210mm head tube, 42.5cm chainstay.
> Deda Zero tubing.

> My other regret is that in opting toward stable handling I get the cornering performance of a
> sport touring bike, which is what I asked for. Since I also have "normal" racing geometry bikes to
> ride, and I ride some descents on an almost daily basis, it is pretty easy to tell that the
> "comfort bike" does not handle nearly as well when it comes to pointing it where you want to go in
> a corner at speed.

Interesting. That is quite close to the geometry I had in mind. The bikes I've been riding with 74
head angles and 43-44mm rake have beeen somewhere between "twitchy" and "freakin' scary!" Do you
know what fork rake you're using? I'm about 185 lbs, so your lighter weight may make a significant
difference in how the bike responds. Actually, I wouldn't mind quick steering response, if I could
get rid of the death-wobble. I'm not sure if they're related or not.

I have a couple of friends with Landsharks ("smell the bacon"), very pretty with the fillet-brazing
and paint. Seems to be a very good deal if you're comparing other bikes with fancy multi-color paint
jobs. I have to admit I'd prefer to have something nobody else locally is riding, though.

-David

 

[David Mackintos]

Tom Ace <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Can I ask why you want steel? I'm not suggesting it's a bad choice, I'm just curious what your
> reasons are.

In no particular order: Feel (have also ridden high-end aluminum and Ti) Price
Durability/repairability Aesthetics

I did get a chance to try a True Temper S3 (very light steel, large down tube) frame today
(Waterford R33) back-to-back with a Merlin Extralight. My current daily ride is a Klein Quantum
Race. Regardless of what the theoreticians here have to say, I find that there are quite noticeable
diffences between these bikes. I was really surprised at how light, stiff, and lively (but not
punishing over bad pavement) the S3 bike felt. The Waterford MSRP (they sell through a dealer
network) for an S3 bike is quite a bit higher than what some other buiders are offering direct, but
I was very impressed overall.

I think most would agree that a $1000 full-custom steel bike is a better deal than most of the
italian aluminum bikes that seem so popular, or even something like a Klein/Cannondale/Trek OCLV.
Especially if one's body is of non-standard geomety. There are some very nice Ti bikes available,
but I haven't been particularly excited about the ride of the few that I've tried. Smooth and
well-damped feeling, but less lively and some are a bit soft for bigger guys (flexy BB in the
Extralight, for instance).

-David

 

[David Mackintos]

[email protected] (Fred Roses) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I have a little experience with Carl Strong - he made a stem for me. And I must say he responded
> to my email inquiry quite promptly, he delivered exactly when he promised, and the finished
> product is perfect and beautifully made.

I did talke to Vanilla. He's got about a 6-month wait, and I would characterize him as one of the
"artisan" builders. Meaning, you pay a little more for a lugged frame with superb craftsmanship,
eye-candy.

Strong has one of the most comprehensive web pages I've seen. Lots of pictures, more than almost
anyone would want to know about welding, message board, etc. I haven't talked to him, yet. Good
pricing (20% off custom through November), but because there are so many good builders around, I'm
looking at the ones in WA and OR, first (I live on the Columbia River).

-David

 

[Geoff Raynak]

since the weather will turn here in portland sooner or later ... why not order a vanilla and wait
for it. they are amazing. i've got one of his first fillet-brazed models with the custom lasercut
drop-outs stunning

you can reach your pricepoint with various tubesets.

just remember that you have to also design around your front fork for stability...

vanilla... worth the wait... cheers geoff

"David Mackintosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Fred Roses) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I have a little experience with Carl Strong - he made a stem for me. And I must say he responded
> > to my email inquiry quite promptly, he delivered exactly when he promised, and the finished
> > product is perfect and beautifully made.
>
> I did talke to Vanilla. He's got about a 6-month wait, and I would characterize him as one of the
> "artisan" builders. Meaning, you pay a little more for a lugged frame with superb craftsmanship,
> eye-candy.
>
> Strong has one of the most comprehensive web pages I've seen. Lots of pictures, more than almost
> anyone would want to know about welding, message board, etc. I haven't talked to him, yet. Good
> pricing (20% off custom through November), but because there are so many good builders around, I'm
> looking at the ones in WA and OR, first (I live on the Columbia River).
>
> -David

 

[Robin Hubert]

"Bill K." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You might want to look at Waterford frames. Their R14 model is all custom tig welded oversize OX
> platinum, and goes for $1300. True Temper S3 tubing is a very lightweight tube, that is for
> lightweight riders that don't mind replacing their frames, every year or two.

In that vane, custom Gunnars are $1000.

--
Robin Hubert <[email protected]