cycle barriers

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Geraint Jones, Apr 1, 2003.

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  1. You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle? I have never understood
    the P barriers that seem to be essentially more of an obstacle to bicycles than to anything else --
    especially the P barriers facing each other on the cycle half of a pedestrian and cycle bridge on
    NCN 51 as it crosses the Oxford northern bypass, which seem designed to encourage cyclists to use
    the pedestrian side of the bridge.

    I ran (almost literally) into one new to me the other day on the new stretch of NCN 51 as you leave
    that nice Richard Branson's back yard (thank you, Mr Branson) for the Hampton Poyle road.

    It consists of a pair of galvanised steel tubes each bent into a loop about a foot wide and six foot
    tall and set facing each other either side of the cycle track. However they are made to lean towards
    each other so that whilst there is room for a pushchair or trailer at ground level, and indeed for
    shoulders at shoulder height, only narrow or dropped bars can fit through at sensible handlebar
    height. (Fortunately there was an entirely missing ten foot wide field gate alongside.)

    What are those about then?
     
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  2. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Geraint Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    > tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle?

    There are a selection of barriers designed by people that clearly never cycle. On NCN 6 they have an
    arc of steel with a central barrier (sort of ( - where the bracket is a full half circle and the
    dash goes to the circle centre or more) which are well nigh impossible to cycle round without
    stopping. OK for wheelchairs & prams.

    Northampton uses a kissing gate arrangement with no swinging bit. Again requiring stop & shuffle.
    Buggies would be OK but conventional prams and wheelchairs might need to forward in on one side then
    back out on the other.

    The Lea towpath near Ware has a narrow gap that requires that you stop and lift the handle bars over
    the barrier. There is a nasty alternative for prams & wheelchairs.

    Elsewhere in the Ware/Hertford area they have quite a nice barrier (for cyclists -- f**king
    nightmare for pushchair & wheelchair pushers). Its a very narrow but asymmetrically low -- so you go
    through with one pedal at top dead centre. I've seen an old codger take it at reasonable speed
    though I was always too aware of removing the rear derailleur if I missed by an inch or so.

    Basically, an open path with robotic device that recognises legitimate users and vaporises any
    cager or motorcyclist (and any pedestrians & dog owners who fall below a minimum IQ) would seem the
    ideal answer :)

    T
     
  3. "Geraint Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    > tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle? I have never understood
    > the P barriers that seem to be essentially more of an obstacle to bicycles than to anything else

    I'm in the Bronx, NY, not UK, but I was drawn here by Googling a discussion on bubble baths, and I
    agree. The NYC Parks Dept. has some vertical posts at crossings on the bike/ped paths in Pelham Bay
    Park, and their main effect seems to be to threaten to cut off my wrists as I squeeze thru.

    Robert
     
  4. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Tue, 1 Apr, Geraint Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It consists of a pair of galvanised steel tubes each bent into a loop about a foot wide and six
    > foot tall and set facing each other either side of the cycle track. However they are made to lean
    > towards each other so that whilst there is room for a pushchair or trailer at ground level, and
    > indeed for shoulders at shoulder height, only narrow or dropped bars can fit through at sensible
    > handlebar height. (Fortunately there was an entirely missing ten foot wide field gate alongside.)
    >
    > What are those about then?

    Recumbents-only cycle track?

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
  5. Rg

    Rg Guest

    "Geraint Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    > tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle? I have never understood
    > the P barriers that seem to be essentially more of an obstacle to bicycles than to anything else
    > -- especially the P barriers facing each other on the cycle half of a pedestrian and cycle bridge
    > on NCN 51 as it crosses the Oxford northern bypass, which seem designed to encourage cyclists to
    > use the pedestrian side of the bridge.
    >
    > I ran (almost literally) into one new to me the other day on the new stretch of NCN 51 as you
    > leave that nice Richard Branson's back yard (thank you, Mr Branson) for the Hampton Poyle road.
    >
    > It consists of a pair of galvanised steel tubes each bent into a loop about a foot wide and six
    > foot tall and set facing each other either side of the cycle track. However they are made to lean
    > towards each other so that whilst there is room for a pushchair or trailer at ground level, and
    > indeed for shoulders at shoulder height, only narrow or dropped bars can fit through at sensible
    > handlebar height. (Fortunately there was an entirely missing ten foot wide field gate alongside.)
    >
    > What are those about then?

    Ah, barriers - a favourite topic !

    The lean-in tube things sound like the dreadful barriers on the C2C route around Consett and
    Washington - bearing in mind that this route is designed as a "long distance route" how are you
    supposed to get a pannier equipped machine through?

    ... real purpose for responding ... it seems that there are more gates/barriers around that have a
    lock arrangement for wheelchair users (include 'bents in that!) - they have a RADAR key which is
    universal.

    The local parks ranger here suggested that we cyclists go to the Town Hall and get a key (apparently
    there is no statutory requirement to be disabled to have one) - the deal locally is that you pay a
    deposit of £3 for a key and that's your passport to freedom. It works. [... and getting additional
    keys cut at about £2 each works too!]

    RG
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    > tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle? I have never understood
    > the P barriers that seem to be essentially more of an obstacle to bicycles than to anything else
    > -- especially the P barriers facing each other on the cycle half of a pedestrian and cycle bridge
    > on NCN 51 as it crosses the Oxford northern bypass, which seem designed to encourage cyclists to
    > use the pedestrian side of the bridge.

    I must admit to not understanding those either, I guess they are there to slow descending cyclists.
    But, you are right, they just encourage cyclists to use the pedestrian side of the line and thus
    seem to make the whole situation more dangerous.

    Colin
     
  7. We came across some beauts on th C2C. Great when you have a tandem with 40lb of luggage I can
    assure you.
     
  8. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "Geraint Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    > tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle?

    Ours have all been removed, presumably they were thought to be waste of time.
    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  9. Al_mossah

    Al_mossah Guest

    If I was "googling a discussion on bubble baths", I certainly wouldn't admit to it! :)

    This site is for real cyclists, who if they must get clean after a ride use a bucket of ice-cold
    water in the back garden. (I presume it's not just
    me....)

    Peter.

    "Robert Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Geraint Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto
    > > cycle tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle? I have never
    > > understood the P barriers that seem to be essentially more of an obstacle to bicycles than to
    > > anything else
    >
    > I'm in the Bronx, NY, not UK, but I was drawn here by Googling a discussion on bubble baths, and I
    > agree. The NYC Parks Dept. has some vertical posts at crossings on the bike/ped paths in Pelham
    > Bay Park, and their main effect seems to be to threaten to cut off my wrists as I squeeze thru.
    >
    > Robert
     
  10. "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote: ( "Geraint Jones"
    <[email protected]> wrote ... ) > You know those things that are claimed to be
    meant to stop cars and ( > motorbikes getting onto cycle tracks, but are actually a pain in the ) >
    proverbial for anyone on a bicycle? ( ) Ours have all been removed, presumably they were thought to
    be waste of ( time.

    Yes, there used to be some quite impassable ones on the canal just north of Oxford at (one of the
    places called) Thrupp that required you to take your panniers off and throw the bike over at
    shoulder height. They've gone, ... and I miss them.
     
  11. Congokid

    Congokid Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Simon Mason <[email protected]> writes
    >
    >"Geraint Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    >> tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle?
    >
    > Ours have all been removed, presumably they were thought to be waste of time.

    The Hammersmith & Fulham council has replaced all the ones in the little park near me with curved
    metal turnstiles with a swinging gate inside that can't be cycled through. I doubt if they're any
    easier for people with prams or pushchairs, or wheelchairs, to use.

    I don't see the point in making public spaces more difficult for people to get into or out of. Any
    really undesirable types aren't going to let a piddly turnstile stop them. In fact, the barriers are
    more of a deterrent to ordinary folk and if I was accosted by a nutter in the park I'd like to be
    able to get out as quickly as possible than have to negotiate a barrier.

    --
    congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... http://congokid.com
     
  12. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:18:15 +0100 someone who may be congokid <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >The Hammersmith & Fulham council has replaced all the ones in the little park near me with curved
    >metal turnstiles with a swinging gate inside that can't be cycled through. I doubt if they're any
    >easier for people with prams or pushchairs, or wheelchairs, to use.

    Then they are probably in contravention of the Disability Discrimination Act.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  13. Marc

    Marc Guest

    Simon Mason <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto
    > > cycle tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle?
    >
    > Ours have all been removed, presumably they were thought to be waste of time.

    By who and by whom?
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus New Member

    Joined:
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    Ah, no. A popular misconception. These barriers are actually designed to prevent people with wheelchairs from getting onto the cyclepath.
     
  15. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Geraint Jones wrote:
    > You know those things that are claimed to be meant to stop cars and motorbikes getting onto cycle
    > tracks, but are actually a pain in the proverbial for anyone on a bicycle?

    Most of the ones along the Bristol-Bath cyclepath were removed or modified about 16 months ago, but
    there are still plenty round here. Last weekend I started work on a web page devoted to dodgy cycle
    facilities, and I noticed that these barriers seem to be the main feature:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/cycling/farcilities.html

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
  16. Congokid

    Congokid Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> writes

    >Most of the ones along the Bristol-Bath cyclepath were removed or modified about 16 months ago, but
    >there are still plenty round here. Last weekend I started work on a web page devoted to dodgy cycle
    >facilities, and I noticed that these barriers seem to be the main feature:
    >http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/cycling/farcilities.html

    None of these looks like the ones round my way. Must get the digital camera out soon.

    Some of the older barriers here look like the third and fourth pics down, but much smaller. I can
    just about stay on the bike going round them, but I don't know how people with prams or wheelchairs
    negotiate them.

    --
    congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... http://congokid.com
     
  17. I have been told that there is some disability access legislation in the pipeline and that the
    barriers will all have to come down. I would presume that the alternative would be to replace with
    some form of RADAR key operated gate.

    --
    Cheers,

    Wallace Shackleton. Kinross, Scotland.

    www.cyclekinross.org.uk
     
  18. In news:[email protected], wallace.shackleton <[email protected]> typed:
    > I have been told that there is some disability access legislation in the pipeline and that the
    > barriers will all have to come down. I would presume that the alternative would be to replace with
    > some form of RADAR key operated gate.

    Bearing in mind your location, would you happen to know whether this legislation applies *both*
    sides of the border? I'm not aware of this happening in England, and it certainly seems that the
    Devolved Administrations [1] have considerable autonomy with regard to minor road traffic
    legislation (classed as Local Government) these days .

    AFAIK Scotland due to its unique legal system (which was about long before devolution) can easily
    pass stuff like this without England following suit; although I think if you lot decided to make
    everyone cycle or drive on the *right* past Carlisle there would be some considerable brouhaha :)

    Alex

    [1] Scotland, Wales, NI (before 2002-10-15)
     
  19. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:56:25 +0100 someone who may be "Mr [email protected] \(2.3 zulu-alpha\) [comms room 2]"
    <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >> I have been told that there is some disability access legislation in the pipeline and that the
    >> barriers will all have to come down.
    >
    >Bearing in mind your location, would you happen to know whether this legislation applies *both*
    >sides of the border?

    Yes it does.

    The Disability Discrimination Act was passed in 1995 and is being introduced in stages.
    http://www.disability.gov.uk/dda/

    Implementation is patchy and hedged with the words "reasonably practical". Many councils have yet to
    understand it properly.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  20. T I M

    T I M Guest

    On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:25:47 +0100, "Tony W" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The Lea towpath near Ware has a narrow gap that requires that you stop and lift the handle bars
    >over the barrier. There is a nasty alternative for prams & wheelchairs.

    [T] For us to gain easy access to the towpath Tony mentions we also have to deal with various
    railway gates. All pretty easy when walking a solo but less fun with the tandem. I can deal with
    most by flipping the tandem up on the rear wheel (even with rear panniers on) and walking it
    through but, some of the gates have a bar across the entrance to the gate_box at waist height.
    Even the bars on my 23" 'track' solo are too tall for the cross_bar_gate and I have to sort of
    thread the bike through (like getting furniture into your house)!
    >
    >Elsewhere in the Ware/Hertford area they have quite a nice barrier (for cyclists -- f**king
    >nightmare for pushchair & wheelchair pushers). Its a very narrow but asymmetrically low -- so you
    >go through with one pedal at top dead centre. I've seen an old codger take it at reasonable speed
    >though I was always too aware of removing the rear derailleur if I missed by an inch or so.

    Or leaving the BOB Yak wedged there! Even without the trailer we end up going the other way
    round on that one, the same with the tandem.
    >
    >Basically, an open path with robotic device that recognises legitimate users and vaporises any
    >cager or motorcyclist (and any pedestrians & dog owners who fall below a minimum IQ) would seem the
    >ideal answer :)

    [V] It seems the way the world is going is that we (the nice people) are supposed to Police the bad
    people ourselves as there rarely seems to be anyone from the authorities about when needed.

    T i m
     
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