Cycle Helmets

[Steven]

There is a great deal here about cycle helmets. It's mostly that they give
nowhere near the protection a lot of people seem to think they do.

Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?

This is particularly worrysome as the BMA seem to holding a virtually 'rigged'
discussion on the matter.

I'm thinking of things such as:

* Template letters for people to send to their MPs.

* People making appointments to see their GPs to express
their concerns if the BMA do vote to support compulsary headware.

* Any club or association *Who have officers who actually know
how to get in front of ministers and present a cast iron case".
(and haven't fallen for the pro helmet propaganda).

* Forming a religion that bans the covering of the hair outdoors
as an abomination to Nuggan (or whatever we decide to call the God).


* Dressing up as spiderman and ... no, perhaps not.

 

[Colin Blackburn]

Steven wrote:

> Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
> legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?
>
[...]
> * Forming a religion that bans the covering of the hair outdoors
> as an abomination to Nuggan (or whatever we decide to call the God).

I think you'll find the deity's name is Sheldon.

Colin

 

[Steven]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:08:20 +0100, Colin Blackburn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Steven wrote:
>
>> Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
>> legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?
>>
>[...]
>> * Forming a religion that bans the covering of the hair outdoors
>> as an abomination to Nuggan (or whatever we decide to call the God).
>
>I think you'll find the deity's name is Sheldon.
>
>Colin

Won't work :-(

Almost every photo of him I've seen he's wearing some sort of headgear.

Still, I suppose as head honcho he could be exempt.

 

[Colin Blackburn]

Steven wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:08:20 +0100, Colin Blackburn
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>I think you'll find the deity's name is Sheldon.
>>
>
> Won't work :-(
>
> Almost every photo of him I've seen he's wearing some sort of headgear.

He wears a helmet so that we don't have to.

Colin

 

[Steven]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:28:00 +0100, Colin Blackburn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Steven wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:08:20 +0100, Colin Blackburn
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>I think you'll find the deity's name is Sheldon.
>>>
>>
>> Won't work :-(
>>
>> Almost every photo of him I've seen he's wearing some sort of headgear.
>
>He wears a helmet so that we don't have to.

ROTFLMAO!

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:26:44 GMT, [email protected] (Steven)
wrote:

>Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
>legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?

http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/Martlew_Bill

And go to www.cyclehelmets.org and click the link to register as a
supporter (no financial commitment required)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Tim Hall]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:26:44 GMT, [email protected] (Steven)
wrote:

>There is a great deal here about cycle helmets. It's mostly that they give
>nowhere near the protection a lot of people seem to think they do.
>
>Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
>legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?

Start an international lobbying organisation with prominent road
safety and cycling experts. Call it something like cyclehelmets.org.
Give it a website at <www.cyclehelmets.org>.



Tim

 

[Peter Clinch]

Steven wrote:

> This is particularly worrysome as the BMA seem to holding a virtually 'rigged'
> discussion on the matter.
>
> I'm thinking of things such as:
>
> * Template letters for people to send to their MPs.

Always a good thing to do, especially in light of recent changes. I
think the Dundee branch of Helmet Sceptics may well have convinced Ernie
Ross that BHIT were at least not 100% trustworthy, and now he's retired
we'd best get the new one up to speed...

> * People making appointments to see their GPs to express
> their concerns if the BMA do vote to support compulsary headware.

I'd be more inclined to write: GPs appointment time is limited and the
person in pain who might be next in the queue might not appreciate you
taking time which can be rescheduled like a letter.

> * Any club or association *Who have officers who actually know
> how to get in front of ministers and present a cast iron case".
> (and haven't fallen for the pro helmet propaganda).

CTC probably nearest to this.

Also write to the BMA saying why you think they're being ****, with very
specific points about the Board of Science not being very good at
science right now[1]. They take /some/ notice (when I pointed out the
figures for casualties were contradicted by their own references they
took the figures out, though left the references to the incorrect paper
they'd cited to get them, so though the Titanic still sunk the
deckchairs looked much nicer...)

Pete.

[1] despite decades of experience and all the facts available to them,
they seem to have got something very badly wrong here.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Just zis Guy,
you know? ('[email protected]') wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:26:44 GMT, [email protected] (Steven)
> wrote:
>
>>Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
>>legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?
>
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/Martlew_Bill
>
> And go to www.cyclehelmets.org and click the link to register as a
> supporter (no financial commitment required)

Guy, there is a security problem with this. Drop me an email with a
valid reply address and I'll tell you what it is.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
;; of me, by a 'friend'

 

[David Martin]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > * Template letters for people to send to their MPs.
>
> Always a good thing to do, especially in light of recent changes. I
> think the Dundee branch of Helmet Sceptics may well have convinced Ernie
> Ross that BHIT were at least not 100% trustworthy, and now he's retired
> we'd best get the new one up to speed...

I think we persuaded him to follow his natural inclination and leave
well alone rather than to meekly follow the obvious 'think of the
children' line. A case of moving from possibly pro to 'don't touch with
a bargepole'

...d

 

[Graham Dean]

"Steven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There is a great deal here about cycle helmets. It's mostly that they give
> nowhere near the protection a lot of people seem to think they do.
>
> Is there anything we can actually *do* to try to head off any possible
> legislation that would make the wearing of the things compulsary?
>
> This is particularly worrysome as the BMA seem to holding a virtually
> 'rigged'
> discussion on the matter.
>
> I'm thinking of things such as:
>
> * Template letters for people to send to their MPs.
>
> * People making appointments to see their GPs to express
> their concerns if the BMA do vote to support compulsary headware.
>
> * Any club or association *Who have officers who actually know
> how to get in front of ministers and present a cast iron case".
> (and haven't fallen for the pro helmet propaganda).
>
> * Forming a religion that bans the covering of the hair outdoors
> as an abomination to Nuggan (or whatever we decide to call the God).
>
>
> * Dressing up as spiderman and ... no, perhaps not.
>

Following from guardian letter, anybody know if the editor of the Lancet has
a public opinion on helmet compulsion?

Graham

 

[Patrick Herring]

| "Nigel Cliffe" <[email protected]> wrote:
....
| Thus, under the same principle, compulsion for adults would lack any moral
| foundation unless you could show that failing to wear a helmet put someone
| else at direct risk from the activity.

Unfortunately easy: by not wearing a helmet I might use up an ambulance
trip or a turn in A&E that might save someone else's life, whereas
wearing a helmet of course means I'd walk away from all accidents
unscathed...


--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

 

[Peter Clinch]

Patrick Herring wrote:
> | "Nigel Cliffe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
> | Thus, under the same principle, compulsion for adults would lack any moral
> | foundation unless you could show that failing to wear a helmet put someone
> | else at direct risk from the activity.
>
> Unfortunately easy: by not wearing a helmet I might use up an ambulance
> trip or a turn in A&E that might save someone else's life, whereas
> wearing a helmet of course means I'd walk away from all accidents
> unscathed...

But rock climbing would be subject to the same argument, yet it was
specifically given as an example by the minister...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[John Hearns]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:39:35 +0100, Patrick Herring wrote:

>
> Unfortunately easy: by not wearing a helmet I might use up an ambulance
> trip or a turn in A&E that might save someone else's life, whereas wearing
> a helmet of course means I'd walk away from all accidents unscathed...

Apply the same logic to other walks of life please.
How many pedestrians are injured on our roads every day?
So why not walking helmets?

How many car drivers/passengers are injured every day, with injuries
which could have been prevented by full motorsport standard helmets?
And don't start bleating - driving a car or sitting in a passenger seat
doesn't take much physical effort. If rally drivers can wear full helmets
for days on end...

 

[Nigel Wade]

Patrick Herring wrote:

> | "Nigel Cliffe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
> | Thus, under the same principle, compulsion for adults would lack any
moral
> | foundation unless you could show that failing to wear a helmet put
someone
> | else at direct risk from the activity.
>
> Unfortunately easy: by not wearing a helmet I might use up an ambulance
> trip or a turn in A&E that might save someone else's life, whereas
> wearing a helmet of course means I'd walk away from all accidents
> unscathed...

Actually no, the reverse is true.

By wearing a helmet you would survive, and therefore require urgent medical
assistance including ambulance, A&E and prolonged intensive care and rehab.
By dying at the scene without a helmet you would in fact be using up much
less in the way of emergency resource and therefore be more socially
responsible ;-)

--
Nigel Wade

 

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

Nigel Wade <[email protected]>typed


> I see from the RoSPA website that there were over 1000 more head injuries in
> the bathroom in 2002 than there were to cyclists. So perhaps a more
> productive and worthwhile pursuit for the BMA would be the introduction of
> comupulsory bath/shower helmets?

Maybe they could provide evidence that such helmets did not interfere
with hair-washing, just like I've seen evidence that bicycle helmets do
not affect body temperature ;^)

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
Edgware.

 

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:08:06 +0100 someone who may be Nigel Wade
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>So perhaps a more
>productive and worthwhile pursuit for the BMA would be the introduction of
>comupulsory bath/shower helmets?

That would involve picking on a large section of the public. Bullies
tend not to do this.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Rich]

>
>
> I see from the RoSPA website that there were over 1000 more head injuries
> in
> the bathroom in 2002 than there were to cyclists. So perhaps a more
> productive and worthwhile pursuit for the BMA would be the introduction of
> comupulsory bath/shower helmets?

The Shower Helmet Initiative Trust (****) has already been proposed, and
indeed, that is what many people refer to the Bicycle Helmet Initiative
Trust as.