Cycling equipment for visibility



cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
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California has been effectively bankrupt since about 2008, but democrat politicians have effectively covered it up, but the problems began before 2008. What's weird, well not really because this is how the parties work, but when George Deukmejian was governor (R) he was able to balance the state budget from a poor budget from the previous Jerry Brown fiasco. He did some things that would make cyclist cringe but when you don't have money you don't spend what you don't have, so he was able to cut over 1 billion dollars out of the budget and part of that 5 million dollars for bike infrastructure.

But the next governor Pete Wilson (R) is my all time favorite governor of any state and I wish he would have ran for president. Anyways he put California on the recovery, this man was so good, he came into a state with a debt and left the state with 16 BILLION dollar SURPLUS! And that was AFTER paying for the damage caused by the Northridge earthquake!!

But then along came Gray Davis (D) who was able to spend that entire surplus and put Calif back into debt, and due to his new programs eventually put Calif into a budget crisis that ended up being a 34 billion dollar shortfall. My god, and this is the sort of **** that all democrats do and we all sit around with our heads buried in the sand and vote democrat, I don't understand this at all.

Then came Arnold Schwarzenegger (R), who I thought would be good governor, boy was I ever wrong! This guy was only a republican by status but not by thought, he was as liberal as they came despite what some say that he moved toward the center...no, he moved to the far left. He was rated one of the top 10 worst governors in the history of the United States! Jackass.

Now you have good ol Jerry Brown (D) who put California into debt when he ran the first time as governor years ago, and now he's done the exact same thing and spent money like water they don't have.

I can't understand for the life of me that all people have to do is look at political parties track record of financial success as mayor, governor, senator, congressman, representative or president and vote for those that won't bring financial ruin to their cities, states, and country, but no for some reason people like watching their taxes and inflation go skyrocketing and their communities, states and federal government go bankrupt, it excites them to see themselves, city, state and country go into financial ruin so they vote democrat.

I'm so glad I left Calif, the only thing I miss about Calif, is my friends, family, and weather, but I don't miss the cost to live there.

Most of that "bicycle infrastructure" are nothing more than bike lanes painted on the streets and are financed by the Federal government.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
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NE Indiana
Most of that "bicycle infrastructure" are nothing more than bike lanes painted on the streets and are financed by the Federal government.

No it's financed by taxpayers, the government finances nothing; and the state finances, through taxpayers, state paths and lanes. Now sometimes states request federal grants for such projects, but those grants are again paid by taxpayers. This is the same sort of fallacy that people think that we should get free health insurance because they don't have to pay for it...WRONG, taxpayers pay for it, just ask any country that has "free" health insurance.
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
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No it's financed by taxpayers, the government finances nothing; and the state finances, through taxpayers, state paths and lanes. Now sometimes states request federal grants for such projects, but those grants are again paid by taxpayers. This is the same sort of fallacy that people think that we should get free health insurance because they don't have to pay for it...WRONG, taxpayers pay for it, just ask any country that has "free" health insurance.
Right. State finances bicycle paths but the Feds pay most of the cost of bicycle lanes. The people in our group actually forced the state to install these with the Feds saying that they would finance them to reduce traffic. Where did you get the idea that the government, Federal or State, gets money from other than the taxpayer?
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
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NE Indiana
Right. State finances bicycle paths but the Feds pay most of the cost of bicycle lanes. The people in our group actually forced the state to install these with the Feds saying that they would finance them to reduce traffic. Where did you get the idea that the government, Federal or State, gets money from other than the taxpayer?

Feds pay the cost by grants. The states hire grant writers who all they do is apply for grants, so yes the federal government does give money to the states but it's only because they received a grant request. The States cover most of the cost of bike paths and lanes through taxes on gasoline, vehicle registration, sales tax on vehicles, gambling, lottery, general fund, infrastructure fund, and bonds; each state uses a combination of those to fund the bike stuff, but not all of the sources I listed are used by any one state, just depends on the state what they'll use.

Which brings me to a disagreement about whether or not gasoline and vehicle registration fees should go toward bike related stuff, I don't think they should because bikes do not tear up the road, cars cannot travel down a bike path, so the two are not related. What should be done is for every bike sold a one time registration fee of say 5% of the cost of the bike is used to support the bike stuff, plus as an added benefit the registration of the bike would allow the bike to be registered on a computer so in case it's stolen and then recovered the police can find who the bike belonged to and return it. If you want to do the research and find out how much money is spent annually in bike sales in California then figure out how much 5% would mount to, you will find it to be astonishing amount of money.

And again you failed to comprehend, I NEVER said that Federal or State, gets money from other than the taxpayer.
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
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And again you failed to comprehend, I NEVER said that Federal or State, gets money from other than the taxpayer.

That's exactly what tommy does.

Comprehension is not in his wheelhouse.

Acting like a lying sack of **** douchebag is, however.

I'm still waiting on him to apologize to everyone for lying like a rug. And for a verified data file showing he can produce a measly 300 Watts for only 20 minutes!

But, neither of those are going to happen, so I'll just keep calling him the liar that he is.
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
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And again you failed to comprehend, I NEVER said that Federal or State, gets money from other than the taxpayer.
Well, I guess that's what you meant by "No it's financed by taxpayers, the government finances nothing". I suppose that's from your shrewd understanding of the world around you.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
4,711
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NE Indiana
Well, I guess that's what you meant by "No it's financed by taxpayers, the government finances nothing". I suppose that's from your shrewd understanding of the world around you.
You are completely useless to talk to and make sense, go find someone else to act like an idiot to, I'm done.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
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NE Indiana
My god Tom is so dense headed. I truly hope his dense headedness is due to the accident, and he hasn't lied about being an engineer, at least then he would have some respect left, if his dense headedness is natural then he has no respect whatsoever.
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
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My god Tom is so dense headed. I truly hope his dense headedness is due to the accident, and he hasn't lied about being an engineer, at least then he would have some respect left, if his dense headedness is natural then he has no respect whatsoever.
So, one minute you write one thing and the next you right exactly the opposite and I'm the one unhinged. Well, at least you're good for a laugh.
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
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I pity his doctors. They're all shaking their heads, I'm certain of that. Could you just imagine being tommy's shrink?!?!

LMFAO! Given all the lies he's been caught in, I doubt there is any truth in anything he's posted. The multiple $140,000 jobs offers in Delaware ******** was hysterical. Like there's a company out there, anywhere, that's going to pay an lying antique like tommy for doing...anything.

This **** is just too funny.

And I can't believe the 600 Watts for an hour dumbass is even still here, getting his teeth kicked in every time he posts. What a moron.
 

Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
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NE Indiana
Hey I have an idea...let us get back onto the subject of visibility for bicycles!

I doubt the OP is even interested any more after our lunacy bunny trail guided by lunatic.

In case the OP is interested here's the deal with lighting. Thank God for LED lighting because that made the world of lighting not only cheaper but also brighter...a lot brighter then when I bought my very first bicycle standard bulb light powered by 2 C batteries which I shorter after getting the light I upgraded the bulb to a halogen (can't recall the watts) way back around 1979 or 80. Then finally around 1990 they came out with large rechargeable or 6 D battery packs that hung on your top tube, so I got a low cost Cygolite Rover Metro that ran off of 6 D batteries and powered 2 6 watt halogen bulbs, which I changed the long range bulb to a 8 watt I think it was which gave me a total of 14 instead of 12 watts; that light wasn't bad for $40 (roughly) compared to $1,200 for HID that were coming out! I still have that light but it's not being used but works just fine after all those years of use. Then about 14 years ago I got a Philips Safe Ride and a Cygolite Mitycross 480osp, both of those lights I still use and find them to be in the top 99% of the brightest lights used in the area I live.

Even tail lights have improved immensely, I still have, and use now as front flasher because it came with an amber lens, tail light that with the red lens on was so dim I think a candle was brighter, but with the amber lens on it's not bad but there are far better ones on the market, I got that tail light way back when I bought the Cygolite Rover and it still works. Then the same time I got the newer headlights I got a Cateye LD600 but it broke about 8 years into using it and so I bought a Light & Motion Vis 180 and a Planet Bike Turbo flasher, the Planet bike one failed so now all I have is the Vis 180 but I need to get another one which I believe I found what I want which I will tell below.

As far as head light goes, you need to compare a bunch, and fortunately you can online, simply go to these websites, find a light that is bright enough for your needs at a price you can afford, easy peasy; some of the lights on these sites are no longer on the market but most are.

https://road.cc/content/buyers-guid...ling-40-light-beam-comparison-plus-how-choose

https://www.tredz.co.uk/lights-comparison-test (this one you drag the image of a light into one of the boxes)

https://www.bikelightdatabase.com/b...]=blaze2w&right[mode]=27&right[light]=blaze2w

https://www.bikelightdatabase.com/reviews/

https://www.modernbike.com/bicycle-light-comparison-guide

Tail light wise for some reason no one is doing a comparison, to bad. But there are a lot of good tail lights out, the one I am seriously considering is the Niterider Sentry Aero that puts out 260 lumens in at least 90 degrees off to the side, this light is only $40 but I've seen it for less on Amazon. But from everything I could find about it, it's startling bright not only from the rear but from the sides as well. The only problem with this light is that the battery cannot be replaced, once it dies you will have to buy another light, but for the money and the level of brightness I'm ok with that. For comparison my Light & Motion vis 180 puts out 70 lumens (the new one puts out 150) and it cost me $90, while I can replace the battery in it the bat will cost me $35...hmmm, get the picture? Now think about this, my Vis 180 is bright enough at 70 lumens to see in the daytime rather well, now imagine a light that has almost 4 times the lumens with the NiteRider Sentry Aero. It's pretty much a no brainer for me as to which one I'm going to buy. Now the side illumination thing I mentioned, my Vis 180 does do that as well but nowhere near the intensity as seen from the rear, the NiteRider intensity is almost the same from the side as it is from the rear.

Now in regards to lights, bikes stand out better if they use more than one light front and rear, usually a main head light and flasher attached to the helmet is all you need. With a flasher attached to the helmet you can turn your head and flash the light into side windows of cars at intersections to get their attention. On the rear you should run at least 2 if not 3; you put your brightest one on the seat post, and the next one on your helmet, or if you have 3 put one on each stay plus the seat post.

There was a study done by Europe and Canada in regards to rear lights, the European study concluded that steady light was better than flashing because motorists had a more difficult time judging distance from a blinking object vs steady...great except the Canadian study showed that blinking lights attracted the attention of the motorists faster...so who's right? BOTH ARE! So in that regard I run my brightest light on steady and my dimmest light on flash unless it's daytime than I only use the brightest one on flash (pulse actually for the Vis 180).

I don't usually run a headlight during the day unless it's a dark day and then it's in flash mode for the Cygolite. I figure I can see a car doing some weird thing coming at me and just don't think a light is going to matter, but that's a personal thing you have to figure out.

Now for the important question: why is tail light spelled as two separate words but headlight is one word? I would think both would use two separate words but that's not the case. Combining tail light into one word looks odd: taillight, but headlight doesn't look odd as head light. I'm perplexed! LOL!!!
 

Mr. Beanz

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2015
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Everybody has their preference but I think those reflector vests are worthless.

I love ankle bands! Driving down a road I have spotted many many runners by the itty bitty little reflectors on their shoes because of the motion. So a larger ankle band on each side imo is an attention getter from traffic approaching from the side at intersections etc. Event he flash of a camera lights them up pretty well.

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Two rear Cygo blinkies in the back, one on the helmet, one on the seat post. Plus two Cycgo lites up front. One tilted down and the other level but turned slightly toward the right. Bright little suckers, even on medium I have had cars flash their brights at me. Once another cyclist heading the opposite direction shouted, "Wow, I have to get some lights like that!". :D So I turn them down a bit to avoid blinding drivers.

Yeah, that is on medium and with the camera flash, still light up pretty good. Others I have tried look like a burned out light bulb when the flash lights up.

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If all else fails, I take my wife to protect me on night rides. Now that I look at this pic, glad I trimmed the bushes. :D

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As far as safe, yeah there have been several muggings here in So Calif. Couple years back, the freaking vato locos (Hispanic gang bangers) were knocking people off their bikes on the trail and robbing them as well as stealing their bikes. About 4 victims in a couple of weeks. Cops finally caught the bastards and seems to be a little safer now in Santa Ana.

Funny though, I am a pretty good size dude, 6'1 250 pounds. During that time, I had other cyclists stop before entering the danger zone till I approached asking if they could ride through with me. One actually said he waited for me seeing that I was a BIG MEXICAN! :D

Most the gang banger types out here are Hispanic and I rarely have trouble with Hispanics, gang bangers or not. I think because most are 5'6 and 150 pounds. So they don't bother me. The homeless are mostly white regardless of what people say or think. They don't bother me either.

Being a good size for a cyclist, people don't bother me. Never been called names while riding the streets either like other stories I've read on forums. And most drivers are very courteous, I'm guessing because I follow the law. Even if all 4 streets have a driver at an intersection, when I approach and begin my stop, I will get waved through by all 4 drivers 98% of the time.

But safety being worried about others, never a problem. I'm thinking cause I might be a little on the big side.

I was just modeling my new jersey here, bought it from my friend's bike shop so I can represent!:D

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Froze

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2004
4,711
756
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NE Indiana
Everyone has their opinion, but when I ride at night I wear the cheap Home Depot brand of neon green mesh safety vest with wide reflective bands that I can buy for $10. Do they work, actually yes, I've seen people at night while I was driving having similar vests on and I saw the reflective bands beaming my light back at me. Do they work all the time? depends on the angle of the headlight beam vs position of the reflective bands. Obviously active lighting is always going to be better, but passive lighting is sort of like a mild and cheap redundant safety precaution. I also wear the ankle bands like you do. Those vests help give motorists a form to see when they get closer and for some reason that helps, not sure why. The thing with ankle bands is that another oddity is that elderly people had issues with seeing a non moving reflective item, but they saw the up and down motion of the ankle bands faster.

Another way of looking at passive lighting is what would happen if your active tail light died for some reason? then you would have that redundancy I was talking about working for you so you're not left in the dark, something is better than nothing.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKc4qPm7FRI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LpQz_gMX9k


You have to know that there is a degree of safety with those vests which is why OSHA requires them and it's why street and highway workers adorn them.

This is the one that I use: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-High...ersonal-Safety-Vest-2-Pack-94616-DB/303636367

I use the mesh style because it obviously lets air pass through for hot night rides, and even on cool nights while it will let the cool air pass through I'm wearing a jacket under it. I will grant you this, those vests do look nerdy on a bike but I think the small additional safety is worth looking like a nerd. The funny thing about me, is that when I ride my bike I'm not out to put on a fashion show like a lot of riders.
 

dabac

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2003
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I like the vests.
To me, nothing says "unprotected road user ahead" as clearly as seeing a recognizable torso shape flare up in the beam of my light at the expected torso height. I don't have anything against ankle straps or pedal reflectors etc, but they don't carry the message as clearly as a vest.
 

cyclintom

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2011
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In the dark you shouldn't try to use "auto" type of lighting - that which notifies drivers of your presence with a dim taillight and a hard to see headlight.

For awhile after my concussion I was without a license and ended up on winter mornings going to the doctor etc. on a main street that contains a LOT of heavy truck traffic. What worked for me was a strong headlight pointed downwards so that you could actually see the road in front of you. Then another headlight that was one of those super strong rapid blinkers And a taillight that had a very bright and rapid blinking pattern. With these the cars and trucks would leave me 20 or more feet of clearance. Maybe they thought I was crazy - I'd take that over being hit.