Cycling Fair in Paris - A Disappointment

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Elisa Francesca, Sep 29, 2003.

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  1. Quick write-up for anyone here who may have felt a moment's twinge of regret at not being able to
    attend this event: you didn't miss anything.

    I went on Saturday morning. Organisation was wanting from the start - for example, they were not
    even capable of clearly signing separate entry queues for ticket-holders and people buying tickets,
    so I found myself waiting 40 minutes at the wrong entry. Crowds were huge even though I got there
    fairly early.

    Entry cost 10 Euros per passage of door, meaning you couldn't go out for lunch and come back in.
    Once inside, you had no-where to sit except for some clement exhibition stands which provided
    seating and left you unmolested (thank you, RATP!). This was to force people to the one or two
    overcrowded, overpriced and smoke-stifling sandwich bars where there was seating. Otherwise,
    circulate until you drop, or sit on the floor.

    There was only one hall devoted to cycles. Many important dealers were absent. I was particularly
    keen to get some information on the Giant bicycle I had priced out the week before, but Giant, Trek
    and other majors were not present. Also there was almost no representation for electric bikes and
    kick-scooters - two other areas that interest me greatly and that clearly do come under the rubric
    "Deux Roues".

    The range of cycles being shown was small, with a heavy emphasis on the

    responding in an innovative way to my quest for a high-end, feature rich comfort bike capable of
    handling steep elevations. There were some fantastically gorgeous carbon-framed racing bikes that
    had me gawping on a design level (Italians, unsurprisingly), but that was not what I had come for.

    Exhibitors were uncommunicative and not very well-informed. For example, at the Cannondale stand,
    they had to rootle around in their Catalogue before they could find a bike that answered to my
    specs, and they were not able to detail me the advantages of the various features of a model that
    nevertheless cost 1300 Euros - where you'd damn well expect to know what you were paying for. The
    geezer at Brompton was to deep into his sandwich to answer any of my questions willingly. Pity,
    because in its way the Brompton T6 was the most interesting piece I saw.

    Shimano, whom I wanted to query about the Nexus shifter, hub dynamo lights and the high-end
    hydraulic disc-brakes which equiped the Cannondale Street 800 that I had enquired about, shoved a
    brochure into my hands and left me to get on with my own research.

    Today, I find myself more confused than ever, whereas the whole point of this fair for me was to
    shed light on some of my questions. I do not trust most of what I was told, because what little
    information I received was overly angled towards selling rather than informing objectively. I do not
    feel that I completely wasted a day. I got some references that I will follow up on the terrain. But
    this Fair was not nearly as fun and instructive as it could have been.

    Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France
     
    Tags:


  2. Hey Elisa from the french Island, it's like this for french customers most of the time... The brands
    just go: Pay and shut up, -and why not? It is working in France and people are used to it, although
    the french otherwise really like to contest everything. About Giant: (Some very inside and secret
    information) Why they weren't there? Well, when the day came to make the decision they had something
    else to do in their french office and just forgot to make the reservation. Trek is not widely
    distributed in France, maybe Lance's image is too much for them, winning the tdf all the time on a
    Trek. About electric bikes: They cost much . Think there where 300000 bikes stolen in 2001 and 26 %
    of the people that lost their bike do not even buy anoter one. The french market is limited in
    highly priced urban bikes because of the lack of clients for them. Keep on biking and the courage on
    your french island... I told you , the places to go are Friedrichshafen of Vegas. Anyway there
    aren't so many english speakers going to the Paris fair it seems. Ciao Robert Schinner

    Elisa Francesca Roselli a écrit:
    > Quick write-up for anyone here who may have felt a moment's twinge of regret at not being able to
    > attend this event: you didn't miss anything.
    >
    >
    > I went on Saturday morning. Organisation was wanting from the start - for example, they were not
    > even capable of clearly signing separate entry queues for ticket-holders and people buying
    > tickets, so I found myself waiting 40 minutes at the wrong entry. Crowds were huge even though I
    > got there fairly early.
    >
    > Entry cost 10 Euros per passage of door, meaning you couldn't go out for lunch and come back in.
    > Once inside, you had no-where to sit except for some clement exhibition stands which provided
    > seating and left you unmolested (thank you, RATP!). This was to force people to the one or two
    > overcrowded, overpriced and smoke-stifling sandwich bars where there was seating. Otherwise,
    > circulate until you drop, or sit on the floor.
    >
    > There was only one hall devoted to cycles. Many important dealers were absent. I was particularly
    > keen to get some information on the Giant bicycle I had priced out the week before, but Giant,
    > Trek and other majors were not present. Also there was almost no representation for electric bikes
    > and kick-scooters - two other areas that interest me greatly and that clearly do come under the
    > rubric "Deux Roues".
    >
    > The range of cycles being shown was small, with a heavy emphasis on the

    > responding in an innovative way to my quest for a high-end, feature rich comfort bike capable of
    > handling steep elevations. There were some fantastically gorgeous carbon-framed racing bikes that
    > had me gawping on a design level (Italians, unsurprisingly), but that was not what I had come for.
    >
    > Exhibitors were uncommunicative and not very well-informed. For example, at the Cannondale stand,
    > they had to rootle around in their Catalogue before they could find a bike that answered to my
    > specs, and they were not able to detail me the advantages of the various features of a model that
    > nevertheless cost 1300 Euros - where you'd damn well expect to know what you were paying for. The
    > geezer at Brompton was to deep into his sandwich to answer any of my questions willingly. Pity,
    > because in its way the Brompton T6 was the most interesting piece I saw.
    >
    > Shimano, whom I wanted to query about the Nexus shifter, hub dynamo lights and the high-end
    > hydraulic disc-brakes which equiped the Cannondale Street 800 that I had enquired about, shoved a
    > brochure into my hands and left me to get on with my own research.
    >
    > Today, I find myself more confused than ever, whereas the whole point of this fair for me was to
    > shed light on some of my questions. I do not trust most of what I was told, because what little
    > information I received was overly angled towards selling rather than informing objectively. I do
    > not feel that I completely wasted a day. I got some references that I will follow up on the
    > terrain. But this Fair was not nearly as fun and instructive as it could have been.
    >
    >
    > Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France
     
  3. Trg

    Trg Guest

    I was planning to go today (last day), especially since I can also go to the Motorcycle fair at
    the same time, but after your review, I scrapped that idea. Rather spend the 2 or 3 hours riding.
    I wanted to see what Specialities TA had, but I can visit them since they are just down the road
    in Clamart.

    Thanks for the review.

    "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message
    news: [email protected]
    > Quick write-up for anyone here who may have felt a moment's twinge of regret at not being able to
    > attend this event: you didn't miss anything.
    >
    >
    > I went on Saturday morning. Organisation was wanting from the start - for example, they were not
    > even capable of clearly signing separate entry queues for ticket-holders and people buying
    > tickets, so I found myself waiting 40 minutes at the wrong entry. Crowds were huge even though I
    > got there fairly early.
    >
    > Entry cost 10 Euros per passage of door, meaning you couldn't go out for lunch and come back in.
    > Once inside, you had no-where to sit except for some clement exhibition stands which provided
    > seating and left you unmolested (thank you, RATP!). This was to force people to the one or two
    > overcrowded, overpriced and smoke-stifling sandwich bars where there was seating. Otherwise,
    > circulate until you drop, or sit on the floor.
    >
    > There was only one hall devoted to cycles. Many important dealers were absent. I was particularly
    > keen to get some information on the Giant bicycle I had priced out the week before, but Giant,
    > Trek and other majors were not present. Also there was almost no representation for electric bikes
    > and kick-scooters - two other areas that interest me greatly and that clearly do come under the
    > rubric "Deux Roues".
    >
    > The range of cycles being shown was small, with a heavy emphasis on the

    > responding in an innovative way to my quest for a high-end, feature rich comfort bike capable of
    > handling steep elevations. There were some fantastically gorgeous carbon-framed racing bikes that
    > had me gawping on a design level (Italians, unsurprisingly), but that was not what I had come for.
    >
    > Exhibitors were uncommunicative and not very well-informed. For example, at the Cannondale stand,
    > they had to rootle around in their Catalogue before they could find a bike that answered to my
    > specs, and they were not able to detail me the advantages of the various features of a model that
    > nevertheless cost 1300 Euros - where you'd damn well expect to know what you were paying for. The
    > geezer at Brompton was to deep into his sandwich to answer any of my questions willingly. Pity,
    > because in its way the Brompton T6 was the most interesting piece I saw.
    >
    > Shimano, whom I wanted to query about the Nexus shifter, hub dynamo lights and the high-end
    > hydraulic disc-brakes which equiped the Cannondale Street 800 that I had enquired about, shoved a
    > brochure into my hands and left me to get on with my own research.
    >
    > Today, I find myself more confused than ever, whereas the whole point of this fair for me was to
    > shed light on some of my questions. I do not trust most of what I was told, because what little
    > information I received was overly angled towards selling rather than informing objectively. I do
    > not feel that I completely wasted a day. I got some references that I will follow up on the
    > terrain. But this Fair was not nearly as fun and instructive as it could have been.
    >
    >
    > Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France
     
  4. Well the International Cycle Show in London was good on Saturday :)

    Had a great day there - lots of bikes to see, lots of components, road bikes, cross bikes, MTBs,
    recumbents... the anniversary edition De Rosa is *beautiful* and the Colnago C50 is good too. Graeme
    Obree there signing copies of his book... Josie Dew there.. Lots of talks on various aspects of
    cycling. Cycling policeman there, cycling paramedics...

    It cost husband, son & I £20 to get in (reduced price as CTC members).

    Cheers, helen s

    Cheers, helen s

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**[email protected]*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
    overdependence on money and fame
    ~~~~~~~~~~
     
  5. "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Quick write-up for anyone here who may have felt a moment's twinge of regret at not being able to
    > attend this event: you didn't miss anything.

    I made a snap decision to visit on Sunday morning - it was raining, and I was riding in that
    direction, so decided to stop by. I was redirected from the main gate to door K, where there was
    guarded bike parking and free entry for cyclists. I didn't have to queue.

    I wasn't disappointed, but my expectations were low. The Alex Singer stand quirkily juxtaposed Mavic
    Ksyriums and brazed-on Mafac centre-pulls. Miguel Indurain's time trial bike was there, with a
    Veloce single-pivot brake on the rear. Highlight of the show was a beautiful chromed steel oversized
    track handlebar from Deda Elementi.

    Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?

    James Thomson
     
  6. "trg" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I wanted to see what Specialities TA had, but I can visit them since they are just down the road
    > in Clamart.

    I don't think TA had a stand at the show. If they did, I didn't see it.

    Do they welcome casual visitors at the factory?

    La Maison du Vélo ordered a number of more-or-less obscure TA bits for me last autumn. They received
    the parts promptly, but wouldn't sell them to me until they received an invoice from TA. I was still
    waiting for the invoice when La Maison du Vélo closed its doors permanently in January.

    James Thomson
     
  7. James Thomson wrote:

    > Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?

    Yes, but I wasn't overly impressed. It was very flickery, and when I asked the vendor if there was
    any possibility of accumulating energy so that the light would stay on when the wheel was not
    turning, he said no. Which strikes me as a very poor arrangement because if ever there is a moment
    when you need to see and be seen, it's when you're pulling out at an intersection where there is
    often an obligatory stop. Aren't dynamo lights illegal in the UK for precisely that reason?

    In the catalogue they gave me, there is mention of a double headlight system with one dynamo and one
    battery powered light. That is fail safe but twice the weight. I'd just pick the battery light and
    make sure to keep it charged.

    Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France
     
  8. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
    >
    >> Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?
    >
    > Yes, but I wasn't overly impressed. It was very flickery, and when I asked the vendor if there was
    > any possibility of accumulating energy so that the light would stay on when the wheel was not
    > turning, he said no. Which strikes me as a very poor arrangement because if ever there is a moment
    > when you need to see and be seen, it's when you're pulling out at an intersection where there is
    > often an obligatory stop.

    The Lumotec Oval Plus light has a small LED that lights up when you stop. It, and the Shimano Nexus
    dyno hub are described here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
     
  9. > > Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?

    "Elisa Francesca Roselli" wrote:

    > Yes, but I wasn't overly impressed. It was very flickery,

    Hub dynamos all flicker at very low speeds. They generate alternating current at a frequency
    determined by the small number of poles and their low (relative to a rim dynamo) rate of rotation.
    The flickering isn't perceptible above walking pace.

    > and when I asked the vendor if there was any possibility of accumulating energy so that the light
    > would stay on when the wheel was not turning, he said no.

    He was mistaken - a number of Lumotec models incorporate capacitor-driven LED lamps that light up
    below a critical speed.

    > Which strikes me as a very poor arrangement because if ever there is a moment when you need to see
    > and be seen, it's when you're pulling out at an intersection where there is often an obligatory
    > stop. Aren't dynamo lights illegal in the UK for precisely that reason?

    Dynamos are not illegal in the UK.

    James Thomson
     
  10. Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > James Thomson wrote:
    >
    > > Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?
    >
    > Yes, but I wasn't overly impressed. It was very flickery, and when I asked the vendor if there was
    > any possibility of accumulating energy so that the light would stay on when the wheel was not
    > turning, he said no. Which strikes me as a very poor arrangement because if ever there is a moment
    > when you need to see and be seen, it's when you're pulling out at an intersection where there is
    > often an obligatory stop. Aren't dynamo lights illegal in the UK for precisely that reason?

    No. They're perfectly legal.

    Your intersection worry is probably needless. At least in my experience, when I've got to stop at an
    intersection, the motor vehicles behind me also need to stop. The motor vehicles in front of me or
    to the sides are not normally cutting across my path. The fact that my generator makes no light is
    not important.

    The only time vehicles might cross my path is if I'm the front vehicle at the light and I'm turning
    left (in the US). Then I'll be toward the center line, and vehicles coming from my right on the
    cross street, and turning left to go where I came from, may be tempted to cut the corner too
    sharply. For this, the ordinary reflectors seem to manage fine - plus, I stand back a couple meters
    from the intersection.

    If you feel the need, a white front blinking LED light will add to your visibility in that
    situation. I use one (given to me as a gift) but have noticed no difference in driver behavior.
    Drivers see me at night better than they do in the day.

    - Frank Krygowski
     
  11. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:15:25 +0200,
    <[email protected]>, Elisa Francesca Roselli
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    >James Thomson wrote:
    >
    >> Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?
    >
    >Yes, but I wasn't overly impressed. It was very flickery, and when I asked the vendor if there was
    >any possibility of accumulating energy so that the light would stay on when the wheel was not
    >turning, he said no.

    The purpose of the demonstration is so one can feel the drag of the dynamo when the light is on
    versus when it's off. The lack of drag is rather impressive compared to the more familiar tire
    driven types.

    I use a 3 LED battery powered stand-light in conjunction with mine. There are lights available with
    them built in with an automatic sensor switch. They can be capacitor discharge so they never need
    batteries.

    Battery systems are easily removable for a reason. They get stolen if you don't remove them and
    carry them with you.
    --
    zk
     
  12. >Battery systems are easily removable for a reason. They get stolen if you don't remove them and
    >carry them with you.

    However, to be fair it's much easier to swap them between bicycles should you have the occasion.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
     
  13. Zoot Katz wrote:

    > Battery systems are easily removable for a reason. They get stolen if you don't remove them and
    > carry them with you.

    This is true. I expect another advantage of a hub dynamo is that it would be serious trouble to
    dismantle the whole front wheel in order to steel it.

    EFR
     
  14. "Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I expect another advantage of a hub dynamo is that it would be serious trouble to dismantle the
    > whole front wheel in order to steal it.

    I've seen plenty of bikes around Paris with the spokes cut. A minute with a wire cutter will leave
    your rim locked to your bike, and your hub in new ownership. This seems to happen most often to
    abandoned bikes - it's more likely that your wheel would be stolen, hub and all.

    James Thomson
     
  15. Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

    > serious trouble to dismantle the whole front wheel in order to steel it.

    Sorry, meant "steal it".

    EFR (inattentive)
     
  16. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:10:07 +0200, <[email protected]>, Elisa Francesca Roselli
    <[email protected]> meant:

    >
    >
    >Zoot Katz wrote:
    >
    >> Battery systems are easily removable for a reason. They get stolen if you don't remove them and
    >> carry them with you.
    >
    >This is true. I expect another advantage of a hub dynamo is that it would be serious trouble to
    >dismantle the whole front wheel in order to steal it.
    >
    >EFR

    The major advantage is, IMO, that the lighting system is always there and available. It's part of
    the vehicle and seldom needs attention. One can ride at any time, for any length of time, and be
    assured of having adequate light.

    That the hub dynamo is quiet, free running and reliable in the wet, give it a serious advantage over
    the tire driven dynamo.

    Light systems that require attachment before riding are just one more thing to fiddle with when
    using the bike for utility errands.
    --
    zk
     
  17. Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > James Thomson wrote:
    >
    > > Did you see the Nexus dyno-hub demonstrator wheel on the Shimano stand?
    >
    > Yes, but I wasn't overly impressed. It was very flickery, and when I asked the vendor if there was
    > any possibility of accumulating energy so that the light would stay on when the wheel was not
    > turning, he said no. Which strikes me as a very poor arrangement because if ever there is a moment
    > when you need to see and be seen, it's when you're pulling out at an intersection where there is
    > often an obligatory stop.

    There is a lot of information on http://www.peterwhitecycles.com Look for Lights in the second or
    third column. Since you are in Europe, you should be able to buy locally or to import from Germany.

    Basically, the dynohub -- like all generators -- doesn't store energy. What you need are lights with
    a "standlight". There are Lumotec headlights with a LED standlight that turns itself ON when you
    stop. Their condensor make them work OK for 4-5 minutes, which is fine for stops, traffic lights and
    the like. Likewise, there are LED taillights which either use a similar standlight or batteries to
    operate when you stop. Like a few said, I'm not sure I really need a standlight in front, but I do
    need permanent taillights.

    An important feature of the Lumotec is that is has diodes that prevent overpowering the bulb (and
    frying it) if you ride too fast.

    My commuter is setup with a Shimano dynohub and a Lumotec headlight with a 3 W bulb. My taillight is
    entirely battery-driven: 2 Vistalite Nebula.

    Finally, regarding flickering: the Shimano dynohub and the Schmidt dynohub (or is it the diodes of
    the Lumotec that make the flickering happen?) flicker when you start or ride uphill at 3-5 km/h.
    It's probably a good safety feature because the light output is very low anyway. But as soon as you
    ride past 6-8 km/h, the light beam is constant, and you reach full intensity at 10 to 12 km/h. You
    may even connect two lights in series and will get full advantage of it at 20 km/h. However, I don't
    see any advantage of the dual headlight in a well lit city like Montréal (or Paris, BTW), unless you
    live in a less lit suburb or cross the Bois de Vincennes at night.

    Regards,

    Michel Gagnon
     
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