Cycling from the UK to Romania



On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:02:25 +0100, "Tony W"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I would argue (and I have toured fairly extensively) that you need enough
>stuff to fix a normal roadside incident -- i.e. puncture stuff,


I have fixed a pucture once with some chewing gum over a fair sized
hole. I could go about 5 km before it needed to be re-pumped up. The
chewing gum solution works, but make a hell of the mess!

>a speedy
>link or three,


You can usually afford to lose a link or two, so you really only need
the tool. Long enough to get to the next bike shop.

>a couple of spare spokes,


You can even lost quite a number of spokes before the bike becomes
unrideable. Replacing them requires a number of tools, and I would
prefer to leave it until the bike shop.

>assorted nuts, bolts


Do they usually give much trouble?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
 
In article <[email protected]>,
deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu says...
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:02:25 +0100, "Tony W"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I would argue (and I have toured fairly extensively) that you need enough
> >stuff to fix a normal roadside incident -- i.e. puncture stuff,

>
> I have fixed a pucture once with some chewing gum over a fair sized
> hole. I could go about 5 km before it needed to be re-pumped up. The
> chewing gum solution works, but make a hell of the mess!
>
> >a speedy
> >link or three,

>
> You can usually afford to lose a link or two, so you really only need
> the tool. Long enough to get to the next bike shop.
>
> >a couple of spare spokes,

>
> You can even lost quite a number of spokes before the bike becomes


Depends on your wheels. If you are riding ones designed for touring,
then yes, but if you have some low-spoke-count ones, that's not always
true.

> unrideable. Replacing them requires a number of tools, and I would


What do you need beyond tire levers (which you already have) and a spoke
wrench, which I would take along anyway, to correct a banged-up wheel
caused by bad roads or whatever?


> prefer to leave it until the bike shop.
>
> >assorted nuts, bolts

>
> Do they usually give much trouble?


They do when they rattle loose and fall out.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
 
David Kerber wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu says...


>> You can even lost quite a number of spokes before the bike becomes
>> unrideable

>
> Depends on your wheels. If you are riding ones designed for touring,
> then yes, but if you have some low-spoke-count ones, that's not always
> true.


Also depends on clearance. In extreme cases, just one broken spoke can
stop a 36-spoke touring wheel turning when using the widest tyre that will
fit in the frame. Without replacing the spoke, a major truing job may be
required even when there is some clearance, and the wheel can end up out
of round enough to feel it bumping up and down as you ride.

~PB
 
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:26:15 -0400, David Kerber
<ns_dkerber@ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu says...
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:02:25 +0100, "Tony W"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I would argue (and I have toured fairly extensively) that you need enough
>> >stuff to fix a normal roadside incident -- i.e. puncture stuff,

>>
>> I have fixed a pucture once with some chewing gum over a fair sized
>> hole. I could go about 5 km before it needed to be re-pumped up. The
>> chewing gum solution works, but make a hell of the mess!
>>
>> >a speedy
>> >link or three,

>>
>> You can usually afford to lose a link or two, so you really only need
>> the tool. Long enough to get to the next bike shop.
>>
>> >a couple of spare spokes,

>>
>> You can even lost quite a number of spokes before the bike becomes

>
>Depends on your wheels. If you are riding ones designed for touring,
>then yes, but if you have some low-spoke-count ones, that's not always
>true.


OK, I was talking 'typical'.

>> unrideable. Replacing them requires a number of tools, and I would

>
>What do you need beyond tire levers (which you already have) and a spoke
>wrench, which I would take along anyway, to correct a banged-up wheel
>caused by bad roads or whatever?


Well, if you need to remove the cluster from the back wheel, you need
a couple more tools. From experience, these spokes break more often,
as they absorb more shock when pedalling.

>> prefer to leave it until the bike shop.
>>
>> >assorted nuts, bolts

>>
>> Do they usually give much trouble?

>
>They do when they rattle loose and fall out.


Simply do them up tight!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
 
Thanks for all the great ideas. I've clearly a lot to consider!

I have pencilled-in the 21st July to the 25th August as a time-frame to
complete it in. I was thinking of June, which would have been
preferrable in terms of the weather (a little cooler) and traffic
(Europe won't be on holiday). But I think the time that I had free in
June would be better used to get my butt (and other bits identified by
iakobski) used to sitting on a saddle for many hours a day.

Király basically said that GPS is no good. I can understand its
limitations, but would have thought that if the unit used had a
pre-loaded map on it with detail down to secondary and minor roads,
this, in conjunction with maps, would be ok? I've had a look at some of
the products made by Magellan and would have thought one of these would
work ok, but can't seem to find what maps are pre-loaded and what you
would have to purchase as well (ie. do they count Romania as Europe. My
mobile phone operator doesn't, which is a pain). I think I could easily
pack two pannia

As far as the route was concerned I was planning on crossing the
channel (or La Manche if you want to be like that) to Calais and
working my way down to Luxembourg (because I have friends there). From
there I would work my way across towards Stuttgard and Munich after
which I would take a route roughly following the Danube which makes its
course through Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, and finally
Romania before exiting into the Black Sea (although I would conclude my
journey at Bucharest rather than at the delta, beautiful (and flat)
though it is). I'd try to shy away from mountains and stick roads
rather than tracks.

I've been cycling for small day trips on and off for since I was about
10 (i'm now 23) and have only ever had my chain snap on two occassions,
both when I was off-roading and going up a very steep hill. I think I'd
really need to rationalise what I need to take and also probably rely
on bike shops for anything much more serious than a broken
chain/puncture.

Thanks once again for the advice, all appreciated, and keep it coming
if you have more ideas...
 
I think I could easily
pack two panniers...

....with maps.
 
I think I could easily
pack two panniers...

....with maps.
 
On 14 Apr 2006 03:49:23 -0700, Bill-Dorset-UK wrote:

> Thanks for all the great ideas. I've clearly a lot to consider!
>
> I have pencilled-in the 21st July to the 25th August as a time-frame to
> complete it in. I was thinking of June, which would have been
> preferrable in terms of the weather (a little cooler) and traffic
> (Europe won't be on holiday). But I think the time that I had free in
> June would be better used to get my butt (and other bits identified by
> iakobski) used to sitting on a saddle for many hours a day.
>
> Király basically said that GPS is no good. I can understand its
> limitations, but would have thought that if the unit used had a
> pre-loaded map on it with detail down to secondary and minor roads,
> this, in conjunction with maps, would be ok? I've had a look at some of
> the products made by Magellan and would have thought one of these would
> work ok, but can't seem to find what maps are pre-loaded and what you
> would have to purchase as well (ie. do they count Romania as Europe. My
> mobile phone operator doesn't, which is a pain). I think I could easily
> pack two pannia
>
> As far as the route was concerned I was planning on crossing the
> channel (or La Manche if you want to be like that) to Calais and
> working my way down to Luxembourg (because I have friends there). From
> there I would work my way across towards Stuttgard and Munich after
> which I would take a route roughly following the Danube which makes its
> course through Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, and finally
> Romania before exiting into the Black Sea (although I would conclude my
> journey at Bucharest rather than at the delta, beautiful (and flat)
> though it is). I'd try to shy away from mountains and stick roads
> rather than tracks.
>
> I've been cycling for small day trips on and off for since I was about
> 10 (i'm now 23) and have only ever had my chain snap on two occassions,
> both when I was off-roading and going up a very steep hill. I think I'd
> really need to rationalise what I need to take and also probably rely
> on bike shops for anything much more serious than a broken
> chain/puncture.
>
> Thanks once again for the advice, all appreciated, and keep it coming
> if you have more ideas...


Apart from a short stretch between Heilbronn and Donauworth you can
virtually travel from Luxembourg to the Black Sea along rivers (Mosel,
Rhein, Donau). Look at www.esterbauer.com for guidebooks with detailed
mapping that will take you the whole way. Unfortunately only in German (I
have seen English versions of some of their books but can't find any on the
website).
--
Michael MacClancy
 
"Michael MacClancy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


<snip><snip>
>>
>> Thanks once again for the advice, all appreciated, and keep it coming
>> if you have more ideas...

>
> Apart from a short stretch between Heilbronn and Donauworth you can
> virtually travel from Luxembourg to the Black Sea along rivers (Mosel,
> Rhein, Donau). Look at www.esterbauer.com for guidebooks with detailed
> mapping that will take you the whole way. Unfortunately only in German (I
> have seen English versions of some of their books but can't find any on
> the
> website).
> --
> Michael MacClancy


The Donau Radweg series had 3 books
1 Donaueschingen to Passau ( all in Germany -- and only in German)
2 . Passau to Wien ( all in Austria -- available in English )
3. Wien to Budapest ( mainly in Hungary -- only in German)

But

Book 4 -- Budapest to the Black Sea is due for release in May this year

If you can read a bit of German it is helpful but even without any, the
strip style maps are very good. They take a bit of getting used to since the
cycle route is highlighted all the time and major roads ( even motorways)
are less obvious.. There is a huge amount of information in them --
especially accommodations! They are available from Stanford's who are a lot
more reliable for quick delivery than are Amazon!

The Rhein Radweg is in 3 books -- all in German, You wouldn't need book 1,
since that is just in Switzerland but books 2 and 3 run from Basel to
Rotterdam ( or the other way round if you start at the back!)
You can get the Mosel Cycle way from Stanford's as well and it is available
in English and will guide you from Luxembourg to Koblenz

The whole of the Mosel, Rhein and Danube is very easy cycling the only hilly
bit is going into the Swarzwald ( Black Forest ) going from the Rhein to
the Danube which can be a bit of hard work but there is a route round that
to a certain extent

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
 
In rec.travel.europe Bill-Dorset-UK <[email protected]> wrote:
> Király basically said that GPS is no good. I can understand its
> limitations, but would have thought that if the unit used had a
> pre-loaded map on it with detail down to secondary and minor roads,
> this, in conjunction with maps, would be ok? I've had a look at some of
> the products made by Magellan and would have thought one of these would
> work ok, but can't seem to find what maps are pre-loaded and what you
> would have to purchase as well


A GPS is okay if used *with* good paper maps, but I would never rely on
one *instead* of maps. I'd be very, very surprised if a GPS can show the
amount of detail in a place like Romania than can a good map. A GPS is
just one more thing to break or lose. A map is pretty hard to break and
can be more easily replaced on the way if lost. When you are done with
each map you can give it away or mail it home along the way.

A map can be folded and clipped to the top of your handlebar bag and you
can just look down at it while riding. I'd be leery of trying to do that
with a GPS, I'd be too worried about it falling off and crashing to the
road.

If you really want the GPS, by all means bring it, but if you are
intending to use it as your primary navigation device and eschewing
good proper paper maps, you are making a big mistake, IMO.

K.
 
In rec.travel.europe Bill-Dorset-UK <[email protected]> wrote:
> (Europe won't be on holiday). But I think the time that I had free in
> June would be better used to get my butt (and other bits identified by
> iakobski) used to sitting on a saddle for many hours a day.


Have you thought about what kind of saddle you intend to take along?
Many long-distance touring cyclists (myself included) prefer a
traditional leather saddle made by Brooks in England. Unlike a foam
padded plastic saddle, leather ones break in to fit the shape of your
butt, much like a pair of leather gloves will conform to your hands. I
have gone on over 10,000km worth of bike tours on my Brooks B17 and have
no complaint with it.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html
http://sheldonbrown.com/leather.html

--
K.
 
Király wrote:
> In rec.travel.europe Bill-Dorset-UK <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Király basically said that GPS is no good. I can understand its
>> limitations, but would have thought that if the unit used had a
>> pre-loaded map on it with detail down to secondary and minor roads,
>> this, in conjunction with maps, would be ok? I've had a look at some
>> of the products made by Magellan and would have thought one of these
>> would work ok, but can't seem to find what maps are pre-loaded and
>> what you would have to purchase as well


I would expect that you have to purchase a secondary mapping product from
either Garmin or Magellan.
Or search out the public domain data available for either (there is lots of
public domain stuff for Garmin, and some for Magellan).


> A GPS is okay if used *with* good paper maps, but I would never rely
> on one *instead* of maps. I'd be very, very surprised if a GPS can
> show the amount of detail in a place like Romania than can a good
> map. A GPS is just one more thing to break or lose. A map is pretty
> hard to break and can be more easily replaced on the way if lost.
> When you are done with each map you can give it away or mail it home
> along the way.


Agreed, and also a GPS needs batteries, which means either lots of
disposables, or a source of electricity and a charger.

However, if you know how to use a GPS and how to pre-program, a GPS is
surprisingly useful as a navigation aid on the handlebars of a bike. One
with all the villages and towns as "spots" on the screen, and no roads
between, will quickly give you a position fix which you can relate to a
paper map. If you've set the location of your day's destination, it will
tell you the distance to travel, estimate the time of arival, etc...

I've used such an arrangement when touring in France (the position of all
French communes, which equates to most towns and villages, are available as
a public domain POI file for Garmin).

> A map can be folded and clipped to the top of your handlebar bag and
> you can just look down at it while riding. I'd be leery of trying to
> do that with a GPS, I'd be too worried about it falling off and
> crashing to the road.


A decent GPS mount, and the backup of a lanyard tied to the bike is
sufficient for moderately rough off-roading (worse than I'd take my 531
tourer over, selecting instead the front suspension mountain bike). Make
sure the lanyard is sufficiently short that the GPS cannot end up in the
spokes of the front wheel.

A GPS can be easily mounted on a detachable bar bag, which means a valuable
GPS comes off bike with the quick-release of the bar bag (good home for
wallet, passport, maps and other valuables). Putting the mount on the
bar-bag frame increases the isolation from road vibrations. It works just
fine in the wet; any decent GPS is waterproof. See photos at:

http://www.nigelcliffe.photobook.org.uk/c844879.html


> If you really want the GPS, by all means bring it, but if you are
> intending to use it as your primary navigation device and eschewing
> good proper paper maps, you are making a big mistake, IMO.


In general, I would only recommend using a GPS alongside conventional paper
mapping.



- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
 
Király wrote:

>In rec.travel.europe Bill-Dorset-UK <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>(Europe won't be on holiday). But I think the time that I had free in
>>June would be better used to get my butt (and other bits identified by
>>iakobski) used to sitting on a saddle for many hours a day.
>>
>>

>
>Have you thought about what kind of saddle you intend to take along?
>Many long-distance touring cyclists (myself included) prefer a
>traditional leather saddle made by Brooks in England. Unlike a foam
>padded plastic saddle, leather ones break in to fit the shape of your
>butt, much like a pair of leather gloves will conform to your hands. I
>have gone on over 10,000km worth of bike tours on my Brooks B17 and have
>no complaint with it.
>
>http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html
>http://sheldonbrown.com/leather.html
>
>
>

No. Not Brooks Get a real man's saddle.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************
 
In rec.travel.europe Chuck Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> No. Not Brooks Get a real man's saddle.
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html


From that link:
"Weight limit: The Real MAN saddle is not for use by riders weighing less
than 200 pounds."

The Real MAN is on my list of things to order, but I need to put on
another 50 pounds first before I can use it. Time to start hitting
McDonald's again. :D

K.
 
Le Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:49:23 -0700, Bill-Dorset-UK a écrit :

> (...) I'd try to shy away from mountains and stick roads
> rather than tracks.
>


I'm just back from a short week in Romania (no cycling), and what I saw
suggests one or two comments.

- Roads are in a very bad condition. Many potholes almost everywhere.
Minor roads might even be unpaved. Last week, "unpaved" meant "muddy".
Even when roads are paved, most local cyclists stick to the muddy zone at
the edge of the road. This is probably not what you expect to do when
riding 160 km a day, but I don't know whether our view of "vehicular"
cycling can be fully exercised there. If cycling in this country, I would
probably not chose to use a pure road bike, but rather a touring or even
a mountain bike with 35C or 1 1/2" tires.

- As elsewhere in Eastern Europe, major roads are overcrowded with traffic
including trucks, due to the absence of motorways. The density of traffic
is increasing much faster than the infrastructure is improving. If I judge
from the behavior of our bus driver, the policy is not to give extra space
to slow traffic. Instead, they seem to expect that bikes and horse
carriages will somehow pull to the right (muddy) edge of the road. You
should then try to stick to minor roads, but not so minor that they might
be unpaved.

- As for bike shops and spares, I would be surprised if you could easily
find decent bike parts in anything but major cities.

All these things considered, I would expect it to be difficult to maintain
the same 160 km daily average in Romania as you do at home in England.

It could however be that my present views are too much influenced by the
way I travelled in a little part of this country, which was by bus in a
group tour.

Have a good trip

Turtle
 
Yup, I concur with you on that. I spent 10 weeks in Romania teaching
English last summer and travelled around by every means with the
exception of cycling.

The romanian leg would be about 400mi of the 1800mi journey, so
hopefully the annoyances will be ones I can put up with. The biggest
vexation in the butt will be the hoards of (rabid) dogs which accompany
every city, town, street and house.

I think most reasonable sized towns will have a bike shop and every
reasonably sized village will have a garage where so long as there are
two alpha males, there'll be competition in successfully fixing any
problem.

The bike I propose to use is a touring bike.
 
Bill-Dorset-UK wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am thinking/planning of cycling from Dorset (United Kingdom) to
> Bucharest (Romania) at some point this (2006) summer.

<snipped>

Bill

I think you might find this blog interesting:

http://kenrussell.blogspot.com/

Ken cycled round Europe last year for about three months and writes very
well. He also gave a talk to our club about it (and is winning everything in
sight this season . . . grrr).

Tom.
 
It is good advice to always have a paper map as a backup for long
trips. A mapping GPS is still much more convenient than a paper map
since you can track your progress and reroute without having to make
frequent stops. One thing that you should be sure of is that your paper
maps have lattitude and longitude printed on the grid margins so its
easy to cross-reference with the GPS.
 

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