"Cycling is not a sport"

[Joseph Cipale]

bladewalkerusa wrote:
>
> John Riley wrote:
> > So says SF Gate columnist:
> > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/22-
> > /fool227.DTLhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archiv-
> > e/2003/07/22/fool227.DTL
>
> What do you expect from a guy who calls himself a fool. Only a fool would state this fact:
>

While we are at it, here is my tome to this jag-off: "Many of us who have read your 'work', don't
think you are a writer. At least a very good one. Oh sure.. you write for an 'alternative' newspaper
in a region of CA where one is a few quick pedal strokes away from some of the best cycling in the
world. But, you are not a writer.

You make random scribbles on your notepad, which you then rely upon your pet simian to translate
(obviously better than you can write). Who then turns the work into your editor (who for obvious
reasons, WAS a good writer at some point in time). But, your ability to put together tiresome rants
does NOT make you a writer. Now, if a position in the Republican National Committee opens up for a
'speech writer', I am sure you would fit in very nicely. You have all the requisite tools:
* inability to form a coherent argument
* inability to observe viewpoints other than your own
* ideolgical blinders.

That is okay... it must be tough knowing that there are pet monkeys who are smarter than you are.
Along with bicyclists who can kick your whiny ass at any time. But, hey, they are not athletes.. and
cycling is not a sport.

And you, are not a writer."

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[TbosS]

Do other countries have to deal with guys like this?

Oh of course, ignorance is not an American invention. This guy basically makes a stupid argument about cycling being no sport, while everybody, who has ever practiced it or watched it, realizes it is. But behind this stupid column of the Fool, there is of course a real subject.

When is an activity a sport? I have never been able to give a suitable definition.

Cyclists usually aren't in the position that they have to defend their activity as a sport. Other sports are less fortunate (badminton, table tennis -when disputed called ping-pong-, figure skating, cricket, perhaps soccer in the US)

And there are sports that are truely in the grey area.
Pool has been mentioned already, snooker, darts (basically all bar-related sports). Other sports that at least feature on TV under the header sport like chess, or checkers (Think sport).

Let's try to name a few basic features of sport. And try to seriously come to some kind of definition.

Basic features of sport:
- competition (there is no other goal than being better than the other) essential: you compete against somebody else.
- strategy
the feature of sport that distinguishes it from a play:
- athletic training (in one way or the other)

As long as your excellence in an activity is only based on the fact that you have a talent, the brains, or that you can do the trick, without doing some athletic/physical training, I don't think we should call it a sport.

Please react, and let's get this straight once and for all. We can mail it to the Fool of SF Gate, and any other stupid columnist in the future.

 

[Clovis Lark]

TbosS <[email protected]> wrote:
> wrote:
> > Do other countries have to deal with guys like this?

> Oh of course, ignorance is not an American invention. This guy basically

Ah... But we have refined it into an art!

> makes a stupid argument about cycling being no sport, while everybody, who has ever practiced it
> or watched it, realizes it is. But behind this stupid column of the Fool, there is of course a
> real subject.

> When is an activity a sport? I have never been able to give a suitable definition.

Perhaps Stanford can now offer a new discipline Recreational Metaphysics?

> Cyclists usually aren't in the position that they have to defend their activity as a sport. Other
> sports are less fortunate (badminton, table tennis -when disputed called ping-pong-, figure
> skating, cricket, perhaps soccer in the US)

According to the OED... Hmmmm, perhaps the author was correct? First definition "a. Pleasant
pastime; entertainment or amusement; recreation, diversion." Since Sherwin insists that they are
really suffering, then, by this definition, cycling is no sport. But be of good cheer, (d) redeems
cycling: "d. Participation in games or exercises, esp. those of an athletic character or pursued in
the open air; such games or amusements collectively."

> And there are sports that are truely in the grey area. Pool
has been
> mentioned already, snooker, darts (basically all bar-related sports). Other sports that at least
> feature on TV under the header sport like chess, or checkers (Think sport).

> Let's try to name a few basic features of sport. And try to seriously come to some kind of
> definition.

> Basic features of sport:
> - competition (there is no other goal than being better than the other) essential: you compete
> against somebody else.
> - strategy the feature of sport that distinguishes it from a play:
> - athletic training (in one way or the other)

> As long as your excellence in an activity is only based on the fact that you have a talent, the
> brains, or that you can do the trick, without doing some athletic/physical training, I don't think
> we should call it a sport.

> Please react, and let's get this straight once and for all. We can mail it to the Fool of SF Gate,
> and any other stupid columnist in the future.

> --
> www.weblock.tk

> Enjoy the Tour de France LIVE on your Desktop!

> "La Grande WEBlock Boucle Bar" http://weblock.webuildit.nl/index.php?itemid=1246

>>--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what kind
>of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log with a
>chain saw?

Auto racing requires a lot of physical effort as well as excellent hand eye coordination. Hunters
and fisherman require a different set of skills.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

 

[Daniel S. Lieb]

I don't want to start the NASCAR debate again. I will say that it must take a lot of physical effort
to control a 1200 pound thoroughbred racing at near-full to full speed.

Hiding in the woods like a militia member and shooting at a duck with a high-powered scope requires
no physical effort and barely any skills. Bring back rocks and spears to hunting. I say that if your
hands are good enough for bears, that are good enough for human fishermen.

Dan

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >
> >
> >Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what kind
> >of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log with a
> >chain saw?
>
> Auto racing requires a lot of physical effort as well as excellent hand eye coordination. Hunters
> and fisherman require a different set of skills.
> -----------------
> Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

 

[Patrick O'Grady]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what kind
>of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log with a
>chain saw?

Ever tried cutting a winter's worth of wood with a chain saw, loading it into the truck,
unloading it back at the house and stacking it? It may not make you a "sportsman," but it
qualifies as "athletic," according to Webster. So does proper hunting, which I define as stalking
one's prey through the high country as opposed to jacklighting a deer from an F-150 parked on the
side of the road.

Cheers,

Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog Media

 

[Michael]

"Daniel S. Lieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I don't want to start the NASCAR debate again. I will say that it must
take a
> lot of physical effort to control a 1200 pound thoroughbred racing at
near-full
> to full speed.

Yeah, they must have some awesome workouts during the winter to keep the foot in shape to press down
on the accelerator.

M.

 

[Clovis Lark]

Daniel S. Lieb <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't want to start the NASCAR debate again. I will say that it must take a lot of physical
> effort to control a 1200 pound thoroughbred racing at near-full to full speed.

> Hiding in the woods like a militia member and shooting at a duck with a high-powered scope
> requires no physical effort and barely any skills. Bring back rocks and spears to hunting. I say
> that if your hands are good enough for bears, that are good enough for human fishermen.

According to the OED, it is defined as sport.

> Dan

> Alex Rodriguez wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> >
>> >
>> >Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what
>> >kind of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log
>> >with a chain saw?
>>
>> Auto racing requires a lot of physical effort as well as excellent hand eye coordination. Hunters
>> and fisherman require a different set of skills.
>> -----------------
>> Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

 

[Enoch]

[email protected] (Mike Krueger) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> << And what kind of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through
> a log with a chain saw? I think we just need separate words to describe people who actually expend
> energy when they compete and those who just sit on their asses. >>
>
> I am no fan of auto racing, but I do think that maintaining utter concentration while encased in a
> hot Nomex suit and full face helmet while steering a race car at 200mph for 3 hrs straight
> requires some athletic skill and endurance. I wouldn't describe it as just sitting on one's ass.

I'd say that since above average "fitness" is relativly easy to gain, compared to other efforts one
has to invest to compete in *anything* on a professional level, and since it's probably an advantage
in any of these competions, "fitness" automatically becomes a factor which can decide between
winning and loosing. Even a chess player like Kramnik talks about how he became a better tournament
player after doing some sport (erm, and drinking less vodka).

Formula 1, as an example for racing, is an extremly demanding sport. Back in the 70s (I think),
rules had to be changed because the acceleration in fast corners caused drivers to pass out. If you
see old videos of Nigel Mansell being totally shot, unable to stand after a two hours race, you see
that racing demands a lot. Compare that to todays drivers, seemingly unaffected after a race, one
can conclude that they have to be quite fit.

Here's some (somewhat dumbed down) article about fitness & f1
http://www.health24.co.za/fitness/Specific_sports/16-476-491,13779.asp

They claim Coulthard to have a resting HR of 40.

 

[Daniel S. Lieb]

Well, mowing the lawn (except for a riding mower) in a hot summer's day is a *workout* but when
competetive grass cutting comes on espn 16, i'm getting rid of cable.

Dan

Patrick O'Grady wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >
> >
> >Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what kind
> >of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log with a
> >chain saw?
>
> Ever tried cutting a winter's worth of wood with a chain saw, loading it into the truck,
> unloading it back at the house and stacking it? It may not make you a "sportsman," but it
> qualifies as "athletic," according to Webster. So does proper hunting, which I define as stalking
> one's prey through the high country as opposed to jacklighting a deer from an F-150 parked on the
> side of the road.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog Media

 

[Peter L]

[email protected] (Mike Krueger) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> << And what kind of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through
> a log with a chain saw? I think we just need separate words to describe people who actually expend
> energy when they compete and those who just sit on their asses. >>
>
> I am no fan of auto racing, but I do think that maintaining utter concentration while encased in a
> hot Nomex suit and full face helmet while steering a race car at 200mph for 3 hrs straight
> requires some athletic skill and endurance. I wouldn't describe it as just sitting on one's ass.
> However, standing in a field for three hrs chewing tobacco, spitting, and scratching my nuts while
> waiting for someone to maybe hit a baseball in my direction, picking it up, and throwing it to
> someone else does not necessarily qualify me as a great athelete, does it?

Having a baseball thrown at you at 90 mph, does that qualify?

 

[B. Lafferty]

If it has balls, it's a sport. I assume this is why Cycle Sport and ProCycling only cover
men's cycling.

"Peter L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Mike Krueger) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > << And what kind of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping
> > through a log with a chain saw? I think we just need separate words to describe people who
> > actually
expend
> > energy when they compete and those who just sit on their asses. >>
> >
> > I am no fan of auto racing, but I do think that maintaining utter
concentration
> > while encased in a hot Nomex suit and full face helmet while steering a
race
> > car at 200mph for 3 hrs straight requires some athletic skill and
endurance. I
> > wouldn't describe it as just sitting on one's ass. However, standing in a field for three hrs
> > chewing tobacco, spitting,
and
> > scratching my nuts while waiting for someone to maybe hit a baseball in
my
> > direction, picking it up, and throwing it to someone else does not
necessarily
> > qualify me as a great athelete, does it?
>
>
> Having a baseball thrown at you at 90 mph, does that qualify?

 

[Raptor]

Peter L wrote:
> [email protected] (Mike Krueger) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>However, standing in a field for three hrs chewing tobacco, spitting, and scratching my nuts while
>>waiting for someone to maybe hit a baseball in my direction, picking it up, and throwing it to
>>someone else does not necessarily qualify me as a great athelete, does it?
>
>
>
> Having a baseball thrown at you at 90 mph, does that qualify?

Sorry, no. Requires no fitness, beyond the ability to stand.

My theory on baseball injuries is that the players spend so much time standing and sitting, only to
have to perform athletic feats without proper warmup. I think I do physical more work in the typical
volleyball rally, or a mile of riding, than Sammy Sosa does in the typical inning.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Cycling Potato]

Isn't this guy just pulling what the Mercury News columnist did last year? It generated a TON of
email to the editor, which I think is the whole point of the article.

Pretty cheap trick if you ask me. I'd write to the advertising entities with your complaints, as
publishers pay attention to issues affecting revenue.

Maureen

"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "TbosS" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> >> So says SF Gate columnist:
>
> >>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/22/fool227.DTL
>
> > I sure hope this isn't the "all-American" opinion. Else all hope is lost (for Americans that
> > is ;-)).
>
> Certainly not an "all-American" opinion, but definitely a "many-American male sports enthusiast"
> opinion. Before Lance Armstrong, I'd say it was a "90%-American male sports enthusiast" opinion.
> LA has done a lot of good for the sport in America. There will always be guys like this no-talent
> ass-clown "Betting Fool" that we'll have to deal with. Do other countries have to deal with guys
> like this? I would imagine so, but do they get to write and publish garbage like this in a what
> appears to be a reputable newspaper? Man, I'd love to see someone slam Tiger Woods and golf like
> this guy has slammed LA and bicycle racing.

 

[Edward Waffle]

Patrick O'Grady wrote in message ...
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>>
>>Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what kind
>>of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log with a
>>chain saw?
>
>
>Ever tried cutting a winter's worth of wood with a chain saw, loading it into the truck, unloading
>it back at the house and stacking it?

You must be in the target audience for some of the ads on the OLN coverage--the one promoting the
motorized cart for carrying logs would be just the thing.

 

[Patrick O'Grady]

In article <[email protected]>, "Edward Waffle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Patrick O'Grady wrote in message ...
> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >>
> >>
> >>Personally I am offended when hunters and fisherman are referred to as "sportsman". And what
> >>kind of athletic ability is required in auto-racing, horse racing, or chopping through a log
> >>with a chain saw?
> >
> >
> >Ever tried cutting a winter's worth of wood with a chain saw, loading it into the truck,
> >unloading it back at the house and stacking it?
>
> You must be in the target audience for some of the ads on the OLN coverage--the one promoting the
> motorized cart for carrying logs would be just the thing.

Naw,

That's what '83 Toyota longbeds are for, when they're not full of cyclo-cross bikes. Motorized carts
are for golf-playing sissies, porkers snuffling for truffles in the candy aisle at Wal-Mart and
yuppie nitwits who think manual labor is the name of their gardener.

Cheers,

Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog Media

 

[Didier A. Depir]

Daniel S. Lieb <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, mowing the lawn (except for a riding mower) in a hot summer's day is a *workout* but when
> competetive grass cutting comes on espn 16, i'm getting rid

Well, lawnmower racing _is_ a sport, http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/4077/group980.jpg

And how about the Monster Garage mower thing, where they modified a Mustang into a mower that could
mow at 60 mph?

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512

 

[Robert Chung]

"Didier A. Depireux" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Daniel S. Lieb <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Well, mowing the lawn (except for a riding mower) in a hot summer's day
is a
> > *workout* but when competetive grass cutting comes on espn 16, i'm
getting rid
>
> Well, lawnmower racing _is_ a sport, http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/4077/group980.jpg
>
> And how about the Monster Garage mower thing, where they modified a
Mustang
> into a mower that could mow at 60 mph?

Do they have an edger?

 

[Nick Burns]

"john riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So says SF Gate columnist:
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/22/fool
227.DTL

Put him in your kill file!