Cycling on pavements

[franklen]

Originally posted by Dee
Here, we gotta. Either that or give up and drive. Oh, or we could die on the bike; there's always that option.

We don't have to stay on the sidewalks long; just long enough to get outta the congested part of town. And we have NO pedestrians (in a study, this state was the least likely out of all 50 for people to walk somewhere); the sidewalks are empty. The sidewalks run beside the streets; there are no shopfronts; all the shopfronts are in shopping centers or malls set far back from the streets. Get in line here at a busy intersection and you won't soon do it again; cars full of enraged rednecks will "explain" it to you as soon as the light turns green.

I think the situation Dee described is pretty typical these days. The main streets are congested beyond belief with traffic, storefronts are few or none, replaced by deep set shopping centers and no one walks. I think people deliberately don't walk in these setups unless absolutely necessary because they are afraid of traffic too, at intersections, parking lots, etc. And the continuity of sidewalks in any case is limited, there is no guarantee that you can go from point A to point B on a sidewalk without having to traverse an open parking lot, or a sidewalk that time forgot. Where I bike on the sidewalk, I have encountered (not kidding here) only 5-6 pedestrians during the past 6 months. This is not a business district though, but it contributes to the point trying to be made.

Walking your bike through congested ped areas is the best bet of course, but when the walks are empty (say during morning rush hour), I say be careful, but go ahead if you feel the need for your safety and ability level, and glide along at a safe pace where you can react easily to an opening shop door or such (or just ride far enough out from the shop door).

Another option are the side streets. I do this sometimes, but it severely adds to your time committment for riding, as they are usually littered with stop signs every block as opposed to Main St, and they are usually less engineered for casual grades and such, so you are often moving up the valley for instance, from Main St on the valley floor, and encountering steeper, more difficult rides.

BTW, what state are you in Dee that has so few peds on record?

 

[kwv]

Originally posted by franklen
I think the situation Dee described is pretty typical these days. The main streets are congested beyond belief with traffic, storefronts are few or none, replaced by deep set shopping centers and no one walks. I think people deliberately don't walk in these setups unless absolutely necessary because they are afraid of traffic too, at intersections, parking lots, etc. And the continuity of sidewalks in any case is limited, there is no guarantee that you can go from point A to point B on a sidewalk without having to traverse an open parking lot, or a sidewalk that time forgot. Where I bike on the sidewalk, I have encountered (not kidding here) only 5-6 pedestrians during the past 6 months. This is not a business district though, but it contributes to the point trying to be made.

Walking your bike through congested ped areas is the best bet of course, but when the walks are empty (say during morning rush hour), I say be careful, but go ahead if you feel the need for your safety and ability level, and glide along at a safe pace where you can react easily to an opening shop door or such (or just ride far enough out from the shop door).

Another option are the side streets. I do this sometimes, but it severely adds to your time committment for riding, as they are usually littered with stop signs every block as opposed to Main St, and they are usually less engineered for casual grades and such, so you are often moving up the valley for instance, from Main St on the valley floor, and encountering steeper, more difficult rides.

BTW, what state are you in Dee that has so few peds on record?

Just like Dee I am wondering where you are franklen to say "but when the walks are empty (say during morning rush hour), I say be careful".

Also in reality franklen it doesn't matter what level of safety and ability you are at don't you think things do and could happen.

For example drivers say they have safe cars, there are safe roads there is no one else is around as they say have a high level of safety and ability etc etc but they still crash.

 

[kwv]

Originally posted by kwv
Another cyclist breaking the law thanks to Queensland Transport:

Female Cyclist wearing white helmet, Black Top and Brownish pants riding straight of the footpath into the crossing Boundary and Vulture St West End Monday 20/10/2003 around 11.45am.

Another cyclist Male rider Grey top and pants, Red, White and Blue Helmet Vulture Edmonstone St West End 22/10/2003 Tuesday 2003

 

[kwv]

Originally posted by kwv
Another 2 cyclists breaking the law thanks to QLD Transport by riding straight onto the crossing Male rider Grey top and pants, Red, White and Blue Helmet Vulture and Edmonstone St West End 22/10/2003 Tuesday 2003

Another cyclist: Male Rider, Purple Bike, Black Top and Pants with Orange Trim, White and Black Helmet, Cordelia and Glenelg St South Brisbane around 4.30pm 22/10/2003 Tuesday.

 

[franklen]

Originally posted by kwv
Just like Dee I am wondering where you are franklen to say "but when the walks are empty (say during morning rush hour), I say be careful".

Also in reality franklen it doesn't matter what level of safety and ability you are at don't you think things do and could happen.

For example drivers say they have safe cars, there are safe roads there is no one else is around as they say have a high level of safety and ability etc etc but they still crash.

I am in and around Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, the state capitol. Let me make a distinction here. Within Harrisburg itself, which is a small city by comparison to Philly, New York, or even Pittsburgh, the sidewalks are not empty of pedestrian traffic at any time usually. But the surrounding metropolitan areas made up of numerous boroughs, which I ride from and through, to get into downtown Harrisburg for work, are typical smallish main street business districts. When everyone is driving during morning rush hour to get into Harrisburg, or somewhre else besides main street where the jobs are, then the walks are empty. The shops that do manage there are not even opening until 9,10, or 11, lots of eateries for lunch, small specialty shops with off hours to catch people on lunch breaks, or on the drive home from a 9-5 job, and the cookie cutter shopping centers don't open until 9 or 10 either. These towns have all unfortunately become bedroom communities in a large sense, not communities unto themselves (except for the exception here or there), no town centers, no sense of place, etc. Just stopping or passing through points.

Of course I agree that bad things happen to good people (and even careful people), but we can't go by that as a rule. We would be captives in our own lives. It seems to me that there is no universal rule at this point, cause really all countries, states, provinces, territories, etc have thier own rules in regards to all this. So as long as you are not causing problems, as long as you are being safe in your mind, and taking control of your own safety, then I still feel that you need to go with the situation.

Seriously, when the day comes that bike riding is regulated as strictly as car driving, then we are in trouble. Same roads, same rules, same laws, but bicycles have the advantages of alternate ways and means, and that is a benefit of riding. Let me check one thing, if we ever do get to when bike riding is so regulated maybe that will be a good thing, because it will be for a reason, everyone is riding or wanting to ride bikes!! and the sidewalks must be kept off limits then due to the large numbers, the roadways must be enforced better because the bikes are a presence constantly, and the facilities must be upgraded, so then sidewalk riding won't even be necessary cause there will be nice shoulders, wide lanes, pathways and trails, and recognition. I guess alittle civil disobedience by riding the sidewalks might not be such a bad thing.

 

[kwv]

Originally posted by franklen
I am in and around Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, the state capitol. Let me make a distinction here. Within Harrisburg itself, which is a small city by comparison to Philly, New York, or even Pittsburgh, the sidewalks are not empty of pedestrian traffic at any time usually. But the surrounding metropolitan areas made up of numerous boroughs, which I ride from and through, to get into downtown Harrisburg for work, are typical smallish main street business districts. When everyone is driving during morning rush hour to get into Harrisburg, or somewhre else besides main street where the jobs are, then the walks are empty. The shops that do manage there are not even opening until 9,10, or 11, lots of eateries for lunch, small specialty shops with off hours to catch people on lunch breaks, or on the drive home from a 9-5 job, and the cookie cutter shopping centers don't open until 9 or 10 either. These towns have all unfortunately become bedroom communities in a large sense, not communities unto themselves (except for the exception here or there), no town centers, no sense of place, etc. Just stopping or passing through points.

Of course I agree that bad things happen to good people (and even careful people), but we can't go by that as a rule. We would be captives in our own lives. It seems to me that there is no universal rule at this point, cause really all countries, states, provinces, territories, etc have thier own rules in regards to all this. So as long as you are not causing problems, as long as you are being safe in your mind, and taking control of your own safety, then I still feel that you need to go with the situation.

Seriously, when the day comes that bike riding is regulated as strictly as car driving, then we are in trouble. Same roads, same rules, same laws, but bicycles have the advantages of alternate ways and means, and that is a benefit of riding. Let me check one thing, if we ever do get to when bike riding is so regulated maybe that will be a good thing, because it will be for a reason, everyone is riding or wanting to ride bikes!! and the sidewalks must be kept off limits then due to the large numbers, the roadways must be enforced better because the bikes are a presence constantly, and the facilities must be upgraded, so then sidewalk riding won't even be necessary cause there will be nice shoulders, wide lanes, pathways and trails, and recognition. I guess alittle civil disobedience by riding the sidewalks might not be such a bad thing.

franklen please read previous comments because bad things do happen to good people but because what bad people have done to good people such as bad cyclists breaking the law by riding straight onto the crossing.

So on this basic franklen many cyclists in reality don't look at either their own safety and ability level or the safety of others if they do things like this.

Also just because there are no pedestrians on the walkway does not mean cyclists can break the law.

And I don't know what law you follow but in some states where I lived pushbikes are classifed as legal road vehicle so they have to follow same roads, same rules and same laws.

So on this basic since pushbike are legal road vehicles and are allow on footpath maybe should the laws should be change to make it legal for to drive on the walkway, footpath, sidewalk.

 

[franklen]

Originally posted by kwv
franklen please read previous comments because bad things do happen to good people but because what bad people have done to good people such as bad cyclists breaking the law by riding straight onto the crossing.

So on this basic franklen many cyclists in reality don't look at either their own safety and ability level or the safety of others if they do things like this.

Also just because there are no pedestrians on the walkway does not mean cyclists can break the law.

And I don't know what law you follow but in some states where I lived pushbikes are classifed as legal road vehicle so they have to follow same roads, same rules and same laws.

So on this basic since pushbike are legal road vehicles and are allow on footpath maybe should the laws should be change to make it legal for to drive on the walkway, footpath, sidewalk.

Yeah, I know what you mean about cyclists not looking out for themselves or others, it is unfortunate, but it should be expected of them. And this needs to be the way it is, otherwise we would have to go the route of licensing/registration/insurance/more regulations, which are what cars have to make sure they follow the regs, and I dont think anyone wants this. I don't think anyone would report 65 year old gramps who is coasting along the sidewalk, and being considerate of others, but hey, if racerboy comes along at high speeds on the sidewalk, if pushygirl comes along constantly wanting to move people out of her path, then report them to the police.

Where I am from (Pennsylvania, USA) it is illegal to ride sidewalks in the business districts, but it is legal to ride sidewalks everywhere else. And who really knows exactly where and when the business district legally starts and stops, not exactly common knowledge with all the sprawl and downtown drain that is going on.

 

[kwv]

Originally posted by kwv
Another cyclist: Male Rider, Purple Bike, Black Top and Pants with Orange Trim, White and Black Helmet, Cordelia and Glenelg St South Brisbane around 4.30pm 22/10/2003 Tuesday.

Friday 24/10/2003 11.30am Gladstone and Vulture St Male Rider White Top Black Pants straight onto the crossing.

Friday 24/10/2003 11.45am Brown Top Cream Pants Riding on No Riding side of Victoria Bridge and riding straight onto the crossing at North Quay Brisbane.

Friday 24/10/2003 12.50 pm Blue and White Clothing Male Rider Melbourne St straight onto the crossing on Mollison St in front of Commonwealth Bank.

 

[p9yto]

In Singapore, it is very dangerous to cycling on the main roads with lots of cars at high speed. I usually try to find smaller and quite roads. When come to the segment that I have no other choice, along the dangerous main roads, I will definitely use the pavement. It is not legal to ride on the pavement, but between risking my life and breaking the law for cycling, I am willing to break the law.
One advice, if anyone need to ride on the pavement (to not risk your life), then behave like a pedestrain, stop before crossing the road, slow down when approaching other pedestrain. Consider cyclist is "borrowing" the space from the pedestrain, so give them the "right of way" if necessary. People usually smile back at me with understanding.