Cycling Pro's and Drug use

[ewep]

I recently bought the book written by ***** Voet (the first "link" of the Festina Affair), and was shocked (to say the least!) at what he had to say. In all honesty I must confess that I don't know if he is just being nasty (which he says he isn't), or, even worse, he's telling the truth!

If he is telling the truth, the whole setup of all pro tours/races will be turned into a general farce as, according to him, all pro cyclists use drugs, but in such a way as not to get caught (lift levels to just below max, etc, etc).

Do you think that the pros use drugs to help them finish something like the Tour De France (remeber, 3000km+ over 3 weeks)?

 

[never_doped]

Without a doubt. The entire peloton is doped. Look at the logic of it. At this level of competition the difference between the winner and the last loser is just a few percent. We know from studies that a single doping substance or procedure can produce a gain as much as 8%. We also know that riders are still being caught yet the doping advantage that they had placed them in the middle of the pack when their natural ability plus the doping should have placed them way in front. The only logical conclusion is that all cyclists are doping up to the limits allowed by UCI. As long as your hematocrit and testosterone are within limits it's not considered doping when in fact it is. UCI is helpless to stay ahead of the cheaters.

We are no longer, (and may have never been) watching a race of the best athletes but of the best cheaters.

Cycling is not the only sport suffering from this. It is almost every sport and every top level participant in those sports.

 

[BaCardi]

You are soooooo naive if you don't think that a majority of the pro peloton is on drugs.

 

[lazysegall]

Originally posted by never_doped
Without a doubt. The entire peloton is doped. Look at the logic of it. At this level of competition the difference between the winner and the last loser is just a few percent. We know from studies that a single doping substance or procedure can produce a gain as much as 8%. We also know that riders are still being caught yet the doping advantage that they had placed them in the middle of the pack when their natural ability plus the doping should have placed them way in front. The only logical conclusion is that all cyclists are doping up to the limits allowed by UCI. As long as your hematocrit and testosterone are within limits it's not considered doping when in fact it is. UCI is helpless to stay ahead of the cheaters.

We are no longer, (and may have never been) watching a race of the best athletes but of the best cheaters.

Cycling is not the only sport suffering from this. It is almost every sport and every top level participant in those sports.

I am not going to comment on Doping really. Clearly you have a personal issue about doping. You are more than a bit biased, but you have so much more first hand experience and you have done so much more research that I can't really refute anything you say. I do want to make two points however. First, you propose no resolution. You are a no different than someone telling me about all the suffering people in the world. Yes, I know people are suffering, but what can I do about it. If there is no solutiong then you must just be wasting your time. Second, what is this 8% nonsense. A gain of 8% what? 8% faster? 8% improvement in UCI rankings? 8% better acceleration? 8% better VO2 max? Hemocrit levels. Certainly Doping helps, but I wouldn;t sit around quantifying how much. If you to prove that doping helps preformance then there are plenty of great examples. Ben Johnson, Pantani, Barry Bonds, many olympic cross country skiers. Overall, I would just advise you to have a goal. You are bitter and I don;t blame you, but have something in mind or just say I don;t have a solution, what should we do?

 

[never_doped]

I'm not bitter as much as I feel cheated out of the time and effort I spent on an unfair playing field and my admiration for a sport that is tainted and has most likely always been.

I guess I would like to see doping out of cycling once and for all.

Getting people to realize the issue remains is the first step.

Very few people have an open mind when the group 'doped cyclists' includes their favorite rider.

 

[CycleSteve]

But what exactly is doping anyway? If it's an illegal drug, sure, regardless of any benefit. But what about increasing your protein intake thru a change in diet or thru a protein supplement? What about moving to the mountains part of the year to increase oxygen capacity, or sleeping in an altitude tent at night? And hey, everybody loads up on caffeine and flat Coke before / during a race. What about a shot of Gu or honey?

 

[aeon16]

Ah! Never-doped! As soon as I saw this thread I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. :-D

 

[Jim's ride]

Originally posted by ewep
I recently bought the book written by ***** Voet (the first "link" of the Festina Affair), and was shocked (to say the least!) at what he had to say. In all honesty I must confess that I don't know if he is just being nasty (which he says he isn't), or, even worse, he's telling the truth!

If he is telling the truth, the whole setup of all pro tours/races will be turned into a general farce as, according to him, all pro cyclists use drugs, but in such a way as not to get caught (lift levels to just below max, etc, etc).

Do you think that the pros use drugs to help them finish something like the Tour De France (remeber, 3000km+ over 3 weeks)?

After reading Put Me Back On My Bike In search Of tom Simpson..
I think these men were one tough breed of people.
They trained hard and done whatever was needed to keep up with the Peleton.
I think the same would apply this day and age.
Jim's Ride

 

[gntlmn]

Originally posted by Jim's ride
After reading Put Me Back On My Bike In search Of tom Simpson..
I think these men were one tough breed of people.
They trained hard and done whatever was needed to keep up with the Peleton.
I think the same would apply this day and age.
Jim's Ride

I don't know if you have read any bodybuilding magazines, but you can tell by comparing the competitors in the Natural Bodybuilding magazine (where athletes are strictly tested for drugs) with the competitors in all the other magazines where testing is more lax, and you will see immediately the enormous difference. Clearly, drug use is rampant in that sport. It's amazing what people will do to themselves in the name of winning. I'd like to know more about the side effects these so called athletes experience but clearly are not going to talk about because they are not expected to be doing drugs in the first place.

 

[bryanquinn]

Well, after all this talk about drug use in pro cycling I have decided to hang up my shoes, helmet, and bike for good. It seems I have been naive to assume the great riders relied on their own natural abilities to perform at superhuman levels. I no longer have a reason to dream as I will not submit my health to such attrocities. My heros are fake their words but lies. It seems the time for me to grow up has long passed.

 

[limerickman]

Originally posted by bryanquinn
Well, after all this talk about drug use in pro cycling I have decided to hang up my shoes, helmet, and bike for good. It seems I have been naive to assume the great riders relied on their own natural abilities to perform at superhuman levels. I no longer have a reason to dream as I will not submit my health to such attrocities. My heros are fake their words but lies. It seems the time for me to grow up has long passed.

Bryan : why are you giving up ?
Did you have some wish to go professional ?

I think, on the balance of probabilities, that some of them are using illegal substances.
But this should not prevent you from taking part in the sport.
I can fully understand your reasoning in thinking about hanging up your bike.
But perhaps you need to consider that some cyclists competing in the professional peleton are clean.

If you look at other sports, look at the aussie swimmer Ian Thorpe, he says he's clean.
Not only that, he has donated his blood to the regulatory authorities.
He has told the authorities that they can retain his samples
indefinitely until such time as the authorities can come up
with testing procedures for every type of performance enhancing drug. so as to prove that what he does is totally clean.

There are some clean cyclists in the peleton and if you can focus
on them instead of looking at the other cheats, you'll be fine.

 

[bryanquinn]

Sorry, guess that last post was a bit much. I'm not really giving up. I'll be biking until it's my time to go. There are certainly too many benefits to cycling.
It's just that I hate to think about how many lives are shortened by the use of these drugs. Not to mention what it can do to our young athletes who aspire to compete. I just hope that they weigh the long term affects to their health.
No I'm beyond turning pro, too old.

 

[limerickman]

Originally posted by bryanquinn
Sorry, guess that last post was a bit much. I'm not really giving up. I'll be biking until it's my time to go. There are certainly too many benefits to cycling.
It's just that I hate to think about how many lives are shortened by the use of these drugs. Not to mention what it can do to our young athletes who aspire to compete. I just hope that they weigh the long term affects to their health.
No I'm beyond turning pro, too old.

Sorry my mistake - I picked you up incorrectly.

 

[sean_o]

I raced at a mid level in the U.S. and my own teammates were doping. I stopped racing when I had to ask myself, "why try and compete with these guys? And worse still, why work hard (and do it clean) for teammates who are shooting drugs in their butts?" Of course the majority of pros are doped up. I lost a lot of respect for those guys around the time of the festina scandal and it is only getting worse. To me, the problem goes al the way to the top, up to and including the u.s. domestic pro (at best) who just one his six consequtive tour de france. -the race has become a joke and I am afraid, the whole sport as well.

 

[Flyer]

Overall, I would just advise you to have a goal. You are bitter and I don;t blame you, but have something in mind or just say I don;t have a solution, what should we do?[/QUOTE]
Answer:
Do about what exactly? Human nature, greed, motivation to win and make money? My advice;

Move forward. Through denial, anger and bartering to "acceptance". Doping is not going away. Quite the reverse, it is getting more and more powerful each week.

You have an anemia drug market at $30,000,000 per year and growing. Muscular dystrophy, insulin, renal failure proteins all have monster cash-flow profit potential.

Lance Armstrong is sponsored by Bristol Meyers Squib, with a market capitalization of 50 Billion US Dollars. Do you think they wish to curtail drug use, research or sales????

No way. They want to expand markets and expand acceptance of lifetime and life-style doping as do Merk, Pfizer, and the biotechnology community.

Drugs are referred to as "medicine"---even if they do not work. It is a "mindset" centered in profit.

Sport is business---again focused on profit. Only results matter, not fairness or "level playing fields".

If you want "organic sport" stick to junior racing at the local level. That is as pure as it gets.

Corporate sponsored sport is about watching drug addicts compete in "gladiator style".

Little has changed since Roman times.