Cycling to school - draft.

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Jon Senior, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. Jon Senior

    Jon Senior Guest

    Tags:


  2. soup

    soup Guest

    Jon Senior wrote:
    > www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/cycling_to_school_3.pdf


    All very impresive Jon wish I could put stuff together half as good.
    One thought did strike me though the only adult cyclist we saw didn't
    have a h*lm*t whilst all the children did, was this a conscious decision
    or just the way it worked out.
    --
    This post contains no hidden meanings, no implications and certainly no
    hidden agendas so it should be taken at face value. The wrong words
    may be used this is due to my limitations with the English language .
     
  3. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    soup wrote:

    > All very impresive Jon wish I could put stuff together half as good.
    > One thought did strike me though the only adult cyclist we saw didn't
    > have a h*lm*t whilst all the children did, was this a conscious decision
    > or just the way it worked out.


    Just the way it worked out. On the front cover Rachel wanted to
    wear hers, Roos doesn't actually own one, for Tom's interior shots
    he's somewhat got his hands tied with the school insisting the kids
    wear them for the training. A mix of helmets/heads would be better
    but I think the idea at the moment is something workable now is
    better than a perfect document that never gets finished.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  4. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    soup wrote:
    > Jon Senior wrote:
    > > www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/cycling_to_school_3.pdf

    >
    > All very impresive Jon wish I could put stuff together half as good.
    > One thought did strike me though the only adult cyclist we saw didn't
    > have a h*lm*t whilst all the children did, was this a conscious decision
    > or just the way it worked out.


    All the pics except the front one are apparently due to be replaced. I
    quite liked the cycle maintenance one that appears to have been
    dropped.

    It should also be bourne in mind that permission will need to be
    obtained from the parents of the children for use of pictures featuring
    their little darlings.

    ...d
     
  5. Jon Senior

    Jon Senior Guest

    On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:01:44 +0000, soup wrote:
    > All very impresive Jon wish I could put stuff together half as good.
    > One thought did strike me though the only adult cyclist we saw didn't
    > have a h*lm*t whilst all the children did, was this a conscious decision
    > or just the way it worked out.


    Very kind of you, but it was nothing to do with me, I'm just hosting it
    for the purposes of making the drafting easier for those involved. TBH I
    haven't actually looked at it yet (How's that for responsible hosting?).

    Jon
     
  6. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Peter Clinch wrote:
    >
    > Just the way it worked out. On the front cover Rachel wanted to wear
    > hers, Roos doesn't actually own one, for Tom's interior shots he's
    > somewhat got his hands tied with the school insisting the kids wear them
    > for the training. A mix of helmets/heads would be better but I think
    > the idea at the moment is something workable now is better than a
    > perfect document that never gets finished.
    >
    > Pete.


    Couple here on the Transport 2k and Life Cycle UK sites that they would
    probably allow to be used if asked
    http://www.transport2000.org.uk/learningzone/Briefing-Cycling.htm
    http://www.lifecycleuk.org.uk/active_children.php

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham
     
  7. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On 23 Apr 2006 06:32:44 -0700, "David Martin"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It should also be bourne in mind that permission will need to be
    >obtained from the parents of the children for use of pictures featuring
    >their little darlings.


    I have consent for all those children identifiable. I assume it's
    given for Roos and Rachel.
     
  8. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Tom Crispin wrote:
    > On 23 Apr 2006 06:32:44 -0700, "David Martin"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >It should also be bourne in mind that permission will need to be
    > >obtained from the parents of the children for use of pictures featuring
    > >their little darlings.

    >
    > I have consent for all those children identifiable. I assume it's
    > given for Roos and Rachel.


    I'll happily give it for Rachel, written if needs be. Roos is big
    enought to deal with it herself ;-)

    I'll see if I can persuade the other model ^H^H^H^H^H child to pose for
    some mechanicals type pics (still thinking about those). I do think
    your puncture repairing picture was much stronger than the 'milling
    around' one.

    ...d
     
  9. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:31:40 +0100, Peter Clinch
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >soup wrote:
    >
    >> All very impresive Jon wish I could put stuff together half as good.
    >> One thought did strike me though the only adult cyclist we saw didn't
    >> have a h*lm*t whilst all the children did, was this a conscious decision
    >> or just the way it worked out.

    >
    >Just the way it worked out. On the front cover Rachel wanted to
    >wear hers, Roos doesn't actually own one, for Tom's interior shots
    >he's somewhat got his hands tied with the school insisting the kids
    >wear them for the training. A mix of helmets/heads would be better
    >but I think the idea at the moment is something workable now is
    >better than a perfect document that never gets finished.


    I think I said right from the start that if I took the photos the
    children would be helmeted. There is an 8 year old and a 10 year old
    who cycle to school bare headed - I may be able to snap them as they
    arrive at school, but I cannot really ask them to cycle back and forth
    to get the right shot.

    On Tuesday and Thursday I'm taking groups into Greenwich Park to teach
    look-signal-manoeurve, and I have gerneral consent to use any
    photographs I take of many of those children. However, the ideal
    Cycle Training photo would be two children signalling right at a busy
    traffic light junction, followed by an instructor.

    I'll revert to the puncture repair photo for the back page - I love
    the cheeky eye looking through the wheel.
     
  10. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On 23 Apr 2006 07:33:14 -0700, "David Martin"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'll see if I can persuade the other model ^H^H^H^H^H child to pose for
    >some mechanicals type pics (still thinking about those). I do think
    >your puncture repairing picture was much stronger than the 'milling
    >around' one.


    I agree. It's a much nicer picture. I thought the 'milling around'
    one went quite nicely with the title "The Right Bike", but will change
    it and email to Jon with the latest batch of changes.
     
  11. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Tom Crispin wrote:

    > I think I said right from the start that if I took the photos the
    > children would be helmeted. There is an 8 year old and a 10 year old
    > who cycle to school bare headed - I may be able to snap them as they
    > arrive at school, but I cannot really ask them to cycle back and forth
    > to get the right shot.



    > On Tuesday and Thursday I'm taking groups into Greenwich Park to teach
    > look-signal-manoeurve, and I have general consent to use any
    > photographs I take of many of those children. However, the ideal
    > Cycle Training photo would be two children signalling right at a busy
    > traffic light junction, followed by an instructor.


    If you can look over the shoulder of the instructor with an appropriate
    length lens (probably wide angle, possibly middle of the zoom range,
    getting the instructors RHs of head and shoulder in, ideally catching
    part of the 'cycle training' or 'instructor' on the tabard, with the
    cyclists in the appropriate place. I'll try and get another sketch
    online soonish.



    > I'll revert to the puncture repair photo for the back page - I love
    > the cheeky eye looking through the wheel.


    Great. Can you crop it a bit tighter to the bottom right (just a
    little?)

    ...d
     
  12. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

  13. Jon Senior

    Jon Senior Guest

    A quick update (and some rapid hacking) produced:

    http://www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/urc_upload.php

    Tom has the password and can distribute it as needs be (Although I'll
    certainly field requests that are headed my way).

    You can now upload photos as well. Could someone remember to send me an
    email when it's done with so I can drop the page.

    Jon
     
  14. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:48:25 +0100, Jon Senior
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >OK. The draft PDF is currently available for view at:
    >
    >www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/cycling_to_school_3.pdf
    >
    >I'll try and put some kind of upload facility for this later today, but I
    >make no promises.


    Update uploaded.

    http://www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/urc_upload/cycling to school 6.pdf

    Changes:
    1. Capitalisation consistent for titles
    2. 'Fact sheet for parents' in italics
    3. Woolwich Ferry photo slightly cropped
    4. Clothing section replaced with maintenance section
    5. 'Facts:' section replaced with 'Cycling to school will:' section
    and expanded
    6. 'The right bike' photo changed.
     
  15. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On 23 Apr 2006 07:57:36 -0700, "David Martin"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> On Tuesday and Thursday I'm taking groups into Greenwich Park to teach
    >> look-signal-manoeurve, and I have general consent to use any
    >> photographs I take of many of those children. However, the ideal
    >> Cycle Training photo would be two children signalling right at a busy
    >> traffic light junction, followed by an instructor.

    >
    >If you can look over the shoulder of the instructor with an appropriate
    >length lens (probably wide angle, possibly middle of the zoom range,
    >getting the instructors RHs of head and shoulder in, ideally catching
    >part of the 'cycle training' or 'instructor' on the tabard, with the
    >cyclists in the appropriate place. I'll try and get another sketch
    >online soonish.


    Sorry! I should have added that I won't be doing traffic lights again
    until November or December.

    >> I'll revert to the puncture repair photo for the back page - I love
    >> the cheeky eye looking through the wheel.

    >
    >Great. Can you crop it a bit tighter to the bottom right (just a
    >little?)


    I'll email the original to you, plus another that I really like.
     
  16. Tim Hall

    Tim Hall Guest

    On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:34:49 +0100, Tom Crispin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:48:25 +0100, Jon Senior
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>OK. The draft PDF is currently available for view at:
    >>
    >>www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/cycling_to_school_3.pdf
    >>
    >>I'll try and put some kind of upload facility for this later today, but I
    >>make no promises.

    >
    >Update uploaded.
    >
    >http://www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/urc_upload/cycling to school 6.pdf
    >

    I've been following this, on and off, from the sidelines. It's an
    excellent project, an example of how this interweb thing can get
    people pooling their resources.

    I'm not quite sure of the intended distribution for the finished
    document. Is it just at your school Tom, or a wider audience?

    Does it need some kind of "produced by the touchy feely urc workers
    co-operative" or other identifying mark?


    Tim
     
  17. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:08:53 +0100, Tim Hall
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've been following this, on and off, from the sidelines. It's an
    >excellent project, an example of how this interweb thing can get
    >people pooling their resources.
    >
    >I'm not quite sure of the intended distribution for the finished
    >document. Is it just at your school Tom, or a wider audience?


    I suggested the idea to bring to an end a bitter helmet flame war.

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    My target audience is parents of pupils at my school, simply because I
    have to have a target audience in mind to write the document - but it
    would have wider appeal, and be free to download, print and distribute
    by anyone.

    >Does it need some kind of "produced by the touchy feely urc workers
    >co-operative" or other identifying mark?


    I was thinking of "Badger, Badger, Badger Productions."
     
  18. Brian G

    Brian G Guest

    Tom Crispin wrote:
    > On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:48:25 +0100, Jon Senior
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> OK. The draft PDF is currently available for view at:
    >>
    >> www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/cycling_to_school_3.pdf
    >>
    >> I'll try and put some kind of upload facility for this later today, but I
    >> make no promises.

    >
    > Update uploaded.


    Tiny point of grammatical pedantry. Second last paragraph "you child"
    should read "your child".
    --
    Brian G
     
  19. John B

    John B Guest

    Tim Hall wrote:

    > >Update uploaded.
    > >
    > >http://www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/urc_upload/cycling to school 6.pdf
    > >

    > I've been following this, on and off, from the sidelines. It's an
    > excellent project, an example of how this interweb thing can get
    > people pooling their resources.
    >


    I've been following this with great interest to, its a *very* worthwhile
    project.
    The content is coming along brilliantly and I've been nodding with agreement
    at all the excellent points being made.

    However, from a designer's viewpoint though I'd look at the typography and
    would certainly advise going to two columns for readability.
    A generally accepted rule of thumb is to use 1.5 to 2 x the lower case
    alphabet for line length. This makes it easier for the eye to drop down to the
    following line. It's why some people will put down an otherwise interesting
    text in content terms and feel disinclined to continue reading, thus however
    good the content, the message may not be read. Readers may become
    uninterested as sub-conciously it becomes more difficult to read than
    necessary.

    At the moment it is about 80 characters per line which is perfect for two
    columns of 35 to 40 characters.

    Another point is use of underlining. In true typesetting this is generally a
    Big 'no no' and harps back to the days of the typewriter when styles and
    weights were not available. I'd advise avoiding it and replacing with a
    semi-bold or bold weight.

    some of the htyphens also need to be replaced with en-rules to give the ttext
    a more finished and professional feel.

    Just some thoughts.

    Keep up the brilliant work.

    John B
     
  20. Tom Crispin

    Tom Crispin Guest

    On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:25:52 +0100, John B <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >Tim Hall wrote:
    >
    >> >Update uploaded.
    >> >
    >> >http://www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/urc_upload/cycling to school 6.pdf
    >> >

    >> I've been following this, on and off, from the sidelines. It's an
    >> excellent project, an example of how this interweb thing can get
    >> people pooling their resources.
    >>

    >
    >I've been following this with great interest to, its a *very* worthwhile
    >project.
    >The content is coming along brilliantly and I've been nodding with agreement
    >at all the excellent points being made.
    >
    >However, from a designer's viewpoint though I'd look at the typography and
    >would certainly advise going to two columns for readability.
    >A generally accepted rule of thumb is to use 1.5 to 2 x the lower case
    >alphabet for line length. This makes it easier for the eye to drop down to the
    >following line. It's why some people will put down an otherwise interesting
    >text in content terms and feel disinclined to continue reading, thus however
    >good the content, the message may not be read. Readers may become
    >uninterested as sub-conciously it becomes more difficult to read than
    >necessary.
    >
    >At the moment it is about 80 characters per line which is perfect for two
    >columns of 35 to 40 characters.
    >
    >Another point is use of underlining. In true typesetting this is generally a
    >Big 'no no' and harps back to the days of the typewriter when styles and
    >weights were not available. I'd advise avoiding it and replacing with a
    >semi-bold or bold weight.
    >
    >some of the htyphens also need to be replaced with en-rules to give the ttext
    >a more finished and professional feel.
    >
    >Just some thoughts.
    >
    >Keep up the brilliant work.


    I've set it out in columns and removed the underlining, plus replaced
    some of the pictures with the same but cropped by David.

    http://www.hoovesofdestiny.co.uk/urc_upload/cycling to school 7.pdf
     
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