cyclism scandal will make it harder for armstrong

[ZeMascouflatte]

the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
which begs the question:
how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
drugs?
if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
that it went public, a lot of people may have a hard time to believe it,
with or without proof.
when the top athletes in a sport are all involved, at this level of
fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.
--
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[dgk]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:23:16 -0500, ZeMascouflatte <[email protected]> wrote:

>the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
>the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
>it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
>investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
>de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
>which begs the question:
>how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
>drugs?
>if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
>that it went public, a lot of people may have a hard time to believe it,
>with or without proof.
>when the top athletes in a sport are all involved, at this level of
>fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
>in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.

But if everyone else was doing it then LA was still the best even if
he was doing it. And if he wasn't then he really is qute the specimen.

 

[Will]

ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
> the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...

If this is all true, Armstrong's status is the least of the TdF's
worries. They have no race worth watching and soon, the cycling teams
will have no sponsors.

 

[ZeMascouflatte]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Will" <[email protected]> wrote:

> They have no race worth watching and soon

i disagree with that. the tour is more than the leaders. world class
cyclists are there, as domestiques or teammates, and this year they may
have a chance to shine on their own. without the big names, there is a
chance that it will be a very open race, where any good rider will try
to take a chance and make a name for himself.
with all due respect, your thinking is a reflexion of what's wrong with
this sport: the football and baseball mentality applied to a sport
that's not an american staple to begin with. between lemond and
armstrong nobody cared about cyclism in the states, at least in the
media, hence the readers got not fed everyday. just look at this year:
just days before the start of the race no network or papers had any
coverage. last year we were eating armstrong and the tour 5 times a day.
the pro cyclism, in my opinion, will ultimately benefit of all that, and
so the fans looking at the sport as a sport, not shobiz or entertainment
hollywood-tainted style.
as for the sponsors, their bas of customers is still there, and any
major brand will not leave the field to competitors.
my two cents (of dollar, 1.3 cent of euro).

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[ZeMascouflatte]

In article <[email protected]>,
dgk <[email protected]> wrote:

> then LA was still the best even if
> he was doing it.

exactly what i said in a post 4 days ago. all things being equal,
armstrong still shines as an athlete. no contest.
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[R Brickston]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:23:16 -0500, ZeMascouflatte <[email protected]> wrote:

>the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
>the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
>it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
>investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
>de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
>which begs the question:
>how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
>drugs?
>if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
>that it went public, a lot of people may have a hard time to believe it,
>with or without proof.
>when the top athletes in a sport are all involved, at this level of
>fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
>in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.
--
--A theory bandied about by the pundits in last years Tour: LA has the
advantage due to the cancer trimming his body down in a way that was
very conducive to cycling and especially after he built it back up.
Perhaps the steroid use he took legally prescribed prior, because of
the emaciation caused by the cancer, gave him a body that was simply
superior to the other competitors, even when they were using
performance enhancers.

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:23:16 -0500, ZeMascouflatte <[email protected]> wrote:

>how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
>drugs?

IMP, (in my paranoia) he became a gene doping guinea pig and quite
possibly hasn't used performance enhancing drugs since 2001 when it
became possible to test for EPO.

That **** Pound mentioned two years ago the challenge gene doping
presents to WADA leaves me suspecting they're looking for ways to
close the barn door after the horses/hackers have gone.
--
zk

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:23:16 -0500, ZeMascouflatte wrote:

> the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
> the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
> it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
> investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
> de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
> which begs the question:
> how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
> drugs?

Maybe all these others felt they had no option but to dope in order to
keep up with Armstrong, who was just flat-out better than them.

> if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
> that it went public,

There is a lot of politics in that decision, too.

> fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
> in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.

He was, and is, an usual person. Casting aspersions really is not
justified.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

 

[LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m]

ZeMascouflatte wrote:

> how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite
> who didn't do drugs?

That's simple: he didn't need 'em. He's been tested hundreds of times,
all negative. Deal with it.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

 

[Kevan Smith]

I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is one of the
dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
just some made up marketing ********. I wonder how many Escalade
commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.

--
*Help Animals, the Earth and Your Health! *
*Find out how:* www.VeganStarterPack.com <http://www.veganstarterpack.com/>

 

[Bill]

Kevan Smith wrote:
> I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is one of the
> dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
> just some made up marketing ********. I wonder how many Escalade
> commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.
>
Bad words aside, I notice that reference has been made to the Spanish
being in charge of drug testing. Did any of them get kicked out?
With Ullrich and some of the other favorites out I may not even watch it
this year.
Bill Baka

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is one of the
> dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
> just some made up marketing ********. I wonder how many Escalade
> commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.

Kevan is an idiot (beside being a scoundrel and a jackass) and you listen to
him/her at your peril. Only cyclist is correct; anything else is bonkers.
Bicyclism - what an asshole! Kevan is the biggest bull shitter ever to
infect RBM.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[wafflycat]

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kevan Smith wrote:
>> I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is one of the
>> dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
>> just some made up marketing ********. I wonder how many Escalade
>> commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.
>>
> Bad words aside, I notice that reference has been made to the Spanish
> being in charge of drug testing. Did any of them get kicked out?
> With Ullrich and some of the other favorites out I may not even watch it
> this year.
> Bill Baka

Many a Spanish rider will not be riding the Tour this year as quite a few
have been implicated. However, perhaps the main Spanish podium possibility,
Valverde, is still riding.

Cheers, helen s

 

[Pat in TX]

"Kevan Smith" <>I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is
one of the
> dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
> just some made up marketing ********. I wonder how many Escalade
> commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.

I was in Spain in May and a Dutch tourist asked me what I thought about
"cyclism." I had no idea what he was talking about, but it sounded like
cataclysm to me.

Pat in TX

 

[[email protected]]

Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:

>> how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't
>> do drugs?

> IMP, (in my paranoia) he became a gene doping guinea pig and quite
> possibly hasn't used performance enhancing drugs since 2001 when it
> became possible to test for EPO.

> That **** Pound mentioned two years ago the challenge gene doping
> presents to WADA leaves me suspecting they're looking for ways to
> close the barn door after the horses/hackers have gone.

If you read the accounts in the press, you'll find that testing for
these drugs and blood doping has become increasingly difficult, and
that police work searching for evidence in laboratories has been more
successful. In fact most of what just came out in this respect was
from just such police work. Because French and Spanish police do not
operate in the USA, they found no incriminating evidence in Lance's
medical support lab.

You can draw your own conclusions but a rider of such extraordinary
performance, who does not compete in other races except the TdF,
remaining secretive about his bicycling, raises suspicion with any but
the staunchest US flag wavers.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:23:16 -0500, ZeMascouflatte <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
> >drugs?
>
> IMP, (in my paranoia) he became a gene doping guinea pig and quite
> possibly hasn't used performance enhancing drugs since 2001 when it
> became possible to test for EPO.
>
> That **** Pound mentioned two years ago the challenge gene doping
> presents to WADA leaves me suspecting they're looking for ways to
> close the barn door after the horses/hackers have gone.
> --
> zk

Yeah, gene doping.

Here's an interesting sci-am article on the topic. Worth
a look, lots of into on how muscles work too.

http://scientificamerican.com/artic...86-10CF-94EB83414B7F0000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

-Eric B

 

[[email protected]]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is one of the
> > dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
> > just some made up marketing ********. I wonder how many Escalade
> > commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.
>
> Kevan is an idiot (beside being a scoundrel and a jackass) and you listen to
> him/her at your peril. Only cyclist is correct; anything else is bonkers.
> Bicyclism - what an asshole! Kevan is the biggest bull shitter ever to
> infect RBM.

Now if I did this to you, you would accuse me of being a stalket, a
leech and a sponge, but you exempt yourself from the rules that you
expect others to play by

Jim McNamara

>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[[email protected]]

If Armstrong was doping, that just levels the playing field from my
perspective, but he was the most tested member of the pro peleton and
has never tested positive under controlled conditions. On the other
hand, since no one has yet mentioned a few things, I will. Lance is a
genetic freak of sorts. He has an extra long femur providing
additional leverage, a heart about 1/3 larger and lung capacity about 2
liters larger allowing for cirulation of more oxygenated blood volume,
and he produces less lactic acid (blood lactate) and disposes of it
more quickly than the average pro cyclist providing for a higher
performance threshold. In other words, Lance is a near perfect
biological specimen for his chosen profession. In addition, his
intense training ethic and regimen are legendary. Even without
performance enhancing drugs, these factors alone put the majority of
Lance's comeptitors at a distinct disadvantage. If one includes a
magic performance potino into the mix, would it be any wonder that
everyone else was racing for second place for 7 years?

Jim McNamara

ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
> the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
> it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
> investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
> de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
> which begs the question:
> how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
> drugs?
> if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
> that it went public, a lot of people may have a hard time to believe it,
> with or without proof.
> when the top athletes in a sport are all involved, at this level of
> fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
> in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.
> --
> Save the Planet! Kill yourself!
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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[Mike A Schwab]

If you go to http://www.lancearmstrong.com/ and click on about, he has
his biography.
He won a triathalon at age 13, turned pro at 16, long before he had any
money to pay for any treatments.

[email protected] wrote:
> If Armstrong was doping, that just levels the playing field from my
> perspective, but he was the most tested member of the pro peleton and
> has never tested positive under controlled conditions. On the other
> hand, since no one has yet mentioned a few things, I will. Lance is a
> genetic freak of sorts. He has an extra long femur providing
> additional leverage, a heart about 1/3 larger and lung capacity about 2
> liters larger allowing for cirulation of more oxygenated blood volume,
> and he produces less lactic acid (blood lactate) and disposes of it
> more quickly than the average pro cyclist providing for a higher
> performance threshold. In other words, Lance is a near perfect
> biological specimen for his chosen profession. In addition, his
> intense training ethic and regimen are legendary. Even without
> performance enhancing drugs, these factors alone put the majority of
> Lance's comeptitors at a distinct disadvantage. If one includes a
> magic performance potino into the mix, would it be any wonder that
> everyone else was racing for second place for 7 years?
>
> Jim McNamara
>
> ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> > the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
> > the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
> > it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
> > investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
> > de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
> > which begs the question:
> > how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
> > drugs?
> > if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
> > that it went public, a lot of people may have a hard time to believe it,
> > with or without proof.
> > when the top athletes in a sport are all involved, at this level of
> > fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
> > in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.
> > --
> > Save the Planet! Kill yourself!
> >
> > Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.usenet.com

 

[Bob]

ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> the scandal unfolding in europe right now involves he major riders of
> the last 8 years: ullrich, basso, sevilla etc...
> it seems that evidence and documents presented by the spanish
> investigators of 'operation puerto' and the people in charge of the tour
> de france were convincing enough for the teams to suspend their riders.
> which begs the question:
> how come armstrong would be the only one from the elite who didn't do
> drugs?
> if the fact are proven, and the spanish deprtment seems confident enougn
> that it went public, a lot of people may have a hard time to believe it,
> with or without proof.
> when the top athletes in a sport are all involved, at this level of
> fitness and preparation for the tour, that a single guy makes it 7 years
> in a row being clean will seem very strange, to say the least.

I think it's important to remember that the riders in question were
*not* ejected by the TdF officials. The riders were suspended by their
own teams in accordance with that section of the ProTour ethics code
that says riders who are the targets of criminal investigations may not
compete in ProTour sanctioned events. IMO such a "guilty until proven
innocent" clause has no place in something called an ethics code
because the chances of abuse are far too great but anyway, the TdF is
simply following their own rules by not allowing the teams to replace
those riders. BTW, the scandal is more aptly called the Operation
Puerto scandal. I believe "Cyclism" was coined by OLN to describe their
television coverage.

Regards,
Bob Hunt