Cyclist Attacked

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Graham, Feb 20, 2004.

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  1. Graham

    Graham Guest

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    #1 Graham, Feb 20, 2004
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  2. Pk

    Pk Guest

    #2 Pk, Feb 20, 2004
  3. Vernon Levy

    Vernon Levy Guest

    "PK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Graham wrote:
    > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3495901.stm
    >
    >
    > the headline could equally well have been:
    >
    > Cyclists ignore man attacked by thugs
    >
    Thirty youths - two cyclists/witnesses would you intervene?

    As someone who found himself between two warring factions of school kids/young adults last Friday
    evening, the odds of 100 kids to three adults was not favourable. The fact that I was with two
    colleagues who taught/knew the majority of them was in our favour. It was a tad scary nevertheless.
    I would not have fancied the chances of a public spirited member (or two) of the public.

    It's easy to condemn form afar but you simply have to sample the environment/situation to understand
    the reluctance to get involved.
     
    #3 Vernon Levy, Feb 20, 2004
  4. Stephen \

    Stephen \ Guest

    PK wrote:
    > Graham wrote:
    >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3495901.stm
    >
    >
    > the headline could equally well have been:
    >
    > Cyclists ignore man attacked by thugs
    >
    Or "Man attacked by 30 strong gang" - he wasn't attacked for his bike or for cycling it seems.
    Terrible event though.
     
    #4 Stephen \, Feb 20, 2004
  5. Pk

    Pk Guest

    vernon levy wrote:
    > "PK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> Graham wrote:
    >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3495901.stm
    >>
    >>
    >> the headline could equally well have been:
    >>
    >> Cyclists ignore man attacked by thugs
    >>
    > Thirty youths - two cyclists/witnesses would you intervene?
    >

    No, but it is just as relevant as focussing on the cyclist as victim.

    Thugs attacked someone in a park. Why pick it up and post it to a cycling news group?

    pk
     
    #5 Pk, Feb 20, 2004
  6. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    vernon levy wrote:
    > "PK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> Graham wrote:
    >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3495901.stm
    >>
    >>
    >> the headline could equally well have been:
    >>
    >> Cyclists ignore man attacked by thugs
    >>
    > Thirty youths - two cyclists/witnesses would you intervene?
    >

    There was a time when the answer would have been an unequivocable yes. People would intervene
    wherever someone was in danger without thought of risk to themselves whether it be being attacked or
    drowning in the sea. Increasingly now the atttitude is walk on by or stop and watch.

    Tony
     
    #6 Tony Raven, Feb 20, 2004
  7. Pk

    Pk Guest

    Stephen (aka steford) wrote:
    > PK wrote:
    >> Graham wrote:
    >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3495901.stm
    >>
    >>
    >> the headline could equally well have been:
    >>
    >> Cyclists ignore man attacked by thugs
    >>
    > Or "Man attacked by 30 strong gang" - he wasn't attacked for his bike or for cycling it seems.
    > Terrible event though.

    quite so.

    pk
     
    #7 Pk, Feb 20, 2004
  8. Dwb

    Dwb Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > There was a time when the answer would have been an unequivocable yes.

    There was also a time where the odds of being stabbed/seriously hurt for almost no reason
    were lower.
     
    #8 Dwb, Feb 20, 2004
  9. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    "PK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Thugs attacked someone in a park. Why pick it up and post it to a cycling news group?

    You don't think it's relevant to cyclists when other cyclists appear to be coming under
    random attack?

    --
    Dave...
     
    #9 Dave Kahn, Feb 20, 2004
  10. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    dwb wrote:
    > "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > berlin.de...
    >> There was a time when the answer would have been an unequivocable yes.
    >
    > There was also a time where the odds of being stabbed/seriously hurt for almost no reason
    > were lower.

    Maybe but the shift in attitude is that people now think of their personal safety first and helping
    someone second where it used to be the reverse.

    Tony
     
    #10 Tony Raven, Feb 20, 2004
  11. Pk

    Pk Guest

    Dave Kahn wrote:
    > "PK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >> Thugs attacked someone in a park. Why pick it up and post it to a cycling news group?
    >
    > You don't think it's relevant to cyclists when other cyclists appear to be coming under
    > random attack?

    It was nothing to do with him being a cyclist - it was random thuggery against someone who happened
    to be on a bike. To focus on the victim-as-cyclist reinforces the paranoia some here seem to feel
    about the whole world except other cyclists being out to get them because they are cyclists.

    pk
     
    #11 Pk, Feb 20, 2004
  12. Vic

    Vic Guest

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:54:35 -0000, "dwb" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >berlin.de...
    >> There was a time when the answer would have been an unequivocable yes.
    >
    >There was also a time where the odds of being stabbed/seriously hurt for almost no reason
    >were lower.
    >

    When was that time?

    Vic.

    a) Top posting.
    b) What's the worst thing about UseNet?
     
    #12 Vic, Feb 20, 2004
  13. Graeme

    Graeme Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Maybe but the shift in attitude is that people now think of their personal safety first and
    > helping someone second where it used to be the reverse.
    >

    For understandable reasons.

    I've never walked by in such a case because I have, luckily, never come across such a situation.
    Unluckily, however, I have been on the receiving end of such an event three times; twice with
    knives, once with a revolver (which turned out to be a replica when the police caught the guy, but
    it had me fooled!). In each of the events I am pretty certain that if I had been a passer by, I
    would have done just that; passed by. I would have then alerted the police as soon as possible, but
    I would certainly not have got involved with what would have appeared to be a very dangerous
    situation.

    I was lucky in all three situations and the only physical injury sustained was a small cut to the
    back of my neck when someone tried to slash me with a knife as I bent down to pick up my spectacles
    which he'd just punched off my face.

    Graeme
     
    #13 Graeme, Feb 20, 2004
  14. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:27:57 -0000, "Tony Raven"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> There was also a time where the odds of being stabbed/seriously hurt for almost no reason
    >> were lower.
    >
    >Maybe but the shift in attitude is that people now think of their personal safety first and helping
    >someone second where it used to be the reverse.

    Difficult to say for sure without actually being there, but, if I was the passer by it's very
    probable I'd have intervened.

    My main fear however would not be the risk of personal physical harm, but rather what the police and
    courts would likely do to me afterwards.

    Stepping into a situation like this is a shortcut to an almighty kicking not from the thugs but from
    our nations " justice" system.
    --

    "Bob"

    'The people have spoken, the bastards'

    Email address is spam trapped.
    To reply directly remove the beverage.
     
    #14 Call Me Bob, Feb 20, 2004
  15. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    PK wrote:
    >
    > It was nothing to do with him being a cyclist - it was random thuggery against someone who
    > happened to be on a bike. To focus on the victim-as-cyclist reinforces the paranoia some here seem
    > to feel about the whole world except other cyclists being out to get them because they are
    > cyclists.
    >

    Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you ;-)

    Tony
     
    #15 Tony Raven, Feb 20, 2004
  16. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Tony Raven wrote:

    > Maybe but the shift in attitude is that people now think of their personal safety first and
    > helping someone second where it used to be the reverse.

    Perhaps that is a rational response to the change in the risk.

    James
     
    #16 James Annan, Feb 20, 2004
  17. Adrian Boliston

    Adrian Boliston Guest

    "Graeme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > I've never walked by in such a case because I have, luckily, never come across such a situation.
    > Unluckily, however, I have been on the receiving end of such an event three times; twice with
    > knives, once with a revolver.....

    Phew! Where on *earth* do you live??
     
    #17 Adrian Boliston, Feb 20, 2004
  18. Graeme

    Graeme Guest

    "Adrian Boliston" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]
    111900.news.uni-berlin.de:

    > Phew! Where on *earth* do you live??
    >

    These all happened over several years when I lived in, err, hmmm, don't know if I should tell you, I
    mean I don't want to give the wrong impression, it's a really nice place, I just had a long run of
    bad luck....

    Okay, it was Edinburgh, yep, same place as the attack that started this thread. A couple of the
    incidents were near to one of the nicer areas, Cramond, but I assure you the assailants were riff-
    raff from outside the area, Glasgow most likely ;o)

    Whereas Perth, where I live now, only has the odd car-jacking, theft of babies from hospitals,
    serial murderer etc. If you look in the right (or rather, wrong) place you can find the unpleasant
    side of the most pleasant place. I just had a knack of looking in the wrong places, but I look on it
    now as having given me the experience to avoid similar situations and to be able to cope better with
    them if they are unavoidable.

    Graeme
     
    #18 Graeme, Feb 20, 2004
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