Cyclist killed at South Brisbane

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Barry, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. Barry

    Barry Guest

    Hit by a bus apparently, anyone know more about this ?
     
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  2. Greenboy

    Greenboy New Member

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    When, today?
     
  3. @(none)

    @(none) Guest

    more details:
    http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17750134%5E3102,00.html

    it still doesn't explain how it really happened, but the council says
    the driver "acted within the law". it implies that just because the
    driver had just been through a green light, he did nothing wrong.


    Absent Husband wrote:
    > Here is a link from the News Ltd website.
    >
    > http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17744360-421,00.html
    >
    > The bit about the cyclist is right at the bottom. A male cyclist, hit
    > by a bus on teh corner of Grey & Melbourne Streets at South Brisbane,
    > just after midday.......
    >
    > :(
    >
    > Abby
    >
     
  4. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet be 'driving within the law'.
    I'm guessing Bus has changed lanes/sideswiped cyclist, altho far too little info to make any realworld assessment/assumption
     
  5. justme

    justme Guest

    On 2006-01-07 08:26:29 +1000, flyingdutch
    <[email protected]> said:

    >
    > seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet
    > be 'driving within the law'.
    > I'm guessing Bus has changed lanes/sideswiped cyclist, altho far too
    > little info to make any realworld assessment/assumption


    Very bloody strange report in the CourierMail.

    If a pedestrian staggers onto the road, drunk, not at a crossing, a car
    driver is still at fault for not paying due care and attention. But if
    a bus clips a cyclist, and kills him, after passing through a green
    light the bus driver is not at fault.

    There was a recent case decided by the courts where a truck driver ran
    over a drunk who had fallen asleep on the road, (and if I am not
    mistaken wearing dark clothes!), where the judge ruled against the
    truck driver. The truck driver had been distracted by another drunk
    behaving erratically on the edge of the road, and failed to see the
    sleeping drunk. The court ruled the truckie was not paying due care and
    attention! I’d like to see the same argument dished up to this BCC bus
    driver!
     
  6. MikeyOz

    MikeyOz New Member

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    oh great, so bus drivers can basically go out and just mow people down, fantastic, as long as "they acted within the law", WTF ?

    I think I know that section of road though, I avoided it by all possible means as it is a bit of a bus thorough-fare, now excussing the negligence, I just personally avoided it all costs.

    *sigh*
     
  7. dewatf

    dewatf Guest

    On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:26:29 +1100, flyingdutch
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet
    >be 'driving within the law'.


    Likely though no matter what that the council would be putting out
    spin to try and manage the media and look after its and the drivers
    interests.

    If the bus had right of way and didn't see or couldn't avoid the
    cyclist then that would be the case. Or the cyclist may have illegally
    tried to cut up the side of the bus already changing lanes.
    Then again the description is vague enough to allow for the
    possibility that the cyclist ran a red light and rode into the back of
    the bus.

    As you say we await an accident report and coroners investigation.

    dewatf.
     
  8. maikkeli

    maikkeli Guest

    On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 09:26:29 +1100, flyingdutch wrote:

    > seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet
    > be 'driving within the law'.
    > I'm guessing Bus has changed lanes/sideswiped cyclist, altho far too
    > little info to make any realworld assessment/assumption


    Mmm.. beware, people -- "If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you."
    should be read as "Even if it's midday and you can clearly see my face in
    my mirrors then I probably won't bother looking for you before I turn
    across you".

    I've lost a bike this way, luckily i could unclip and jump off in time.

    - m.
     
  9. adam85

    adam85 Guest

    "flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    >
    > seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet
    > be 'driving within the law'.
    > I'm guessing Bus has changed lanes/sideswiped cyclist, altho far too
    > little info to make any realworld assessment/assumption
    >
    >
    > --
    > flyingdutch


    if he was cycling past the museum as the report mentioned, perhaps he was
    heading straight ahead and the bus was turning left to cross the victoria
    bridge. There is a turn left lane there but I often see cyclists sitting in
    this lane when they are intending to go straight past the cultural centre.
    But who knows....poor bloke.

    Adam
     
  10. @(none)

    @(none) Guest

    Yeap there is a left turn lane there, but there is also a bizarre cycle
    lane along that bit which I suppose we are legally obliged to use. I
    don't use it though, I do have a vision of buses trying to turn left
    into the bus lane while I have to go straight to get to the lights
    (where I can turn left).

    Ok that sounds a bit complex, but if you know the area you'll know what
    I mean.

    I rode through there a few hours ago, felt quite sad, and scared. But I
    have ridden through there for 4 years now without incident, it really
    isn't such a bad area (sorry to contradict MikeyOz). I'm not sure what
    possible excuse there could be for this accident - it's either the
    driver paying no attention or the cyclist doing something dangerous/illegal.

    daniel.


    adam85 wrote:
    > "flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]
    >
    >>seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet
    >>be 'driving within the law'.
    >>I'm guessing Bus has changed lanes/sideswiped cyclist, altho far too
    >>little info to make any realworld assessment/assumption
    >>
    >>
    >>--
    >>flyingdutch

    >
    >
    > if he was cycling past the museum as the report mentioned, perhaps he was
    > heading straight ahead and the bus was turning left to cross the victoria
    > bridge. There is a turn left lane there but I often see cyclists sitting in
    > this lane when they are intending to go straight past the cultural centre.
    > But who knows....poor bloke.
    >
    > Adam
    >
    >
     
  11. MikeyOz

    MikeyOz New Member

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    ehhhh dont worry about contradicting me! :) as everything its all personal... when I lived up there, I avoided it like the plague....
     
  12. Euan

    Euan Guest

    [email protected] (dewatf) writes:


    > If the bus had right of way


    No such thing as a right of way in Australia. Road users have a duty of
    care to each other, a road user approaching a stop sign has a duty to
    stop at the stop sign but there is no right of way.

    > and didn't see or couldn't avoid the
    > cyclist then that would be the case. Or the cyclist may have illegally
    > tried to cut up the side of the bus already changing lanes.


    A cyclist can quite legally overtake another vehicle on the left as you
    well know. Not always the safest course and a course that should be
    exercised with caution. The overtaking vehicle, in this hypothetical
    case the cyclist, has the higher duty of care in this situation.
    --
    Cheers | ~~ [email protected]
    Euan | ~~ _-\<,
    Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
     
  13. Plodder

    Plodder Guest

    --
    Frank
    [email protected]
    Drop DACKS to reply
    "justme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 2006-01-07 08:26:29 +1000, flyingdutch
    > <[email protected]> said:
    >
    > >
    > > seems strange that a bus can 'clip him with the rear of the bus' and yet
    > > be 'driving within the law'.
    > > I'm guessing Bus has changed lanes/sideswiped cyclist, altho far too
    > > little info to make any realworld assessment/assumption

    >
    > Very bloody strange report in the CourierMail.
    >
    > If a pedestrian staggers onto the road, drunk, not at a crossing, a car
    > driver is still at fault for not paying due care and attention. But if
    > a bus clips a cyclist, and kills him, after passing through a green
    > light the bus driver is not at fault.
    >
    > There was a recent case decided by the courts where a truck driver ran
    > over a drunk who had fallen asleep on the road, (and if I am not
    > mistaken wearing dark clothes!), where the judge ruled against the
    > truck driver. The truck driver had been distracted by another drunk
    > behaving erratically on the edge of the road, and failed to see the
    > sleeping drunk. The court ruled the truckie was not paying due care and
    > attention! I'd like to see the same argument dished up to this BCC bus
    > driver!


    The drunk on the road case was here in WA and got quite a bit of attention.
    At first I thought it was bloody ridiculous too, but one of the regular
    journos (Collen Egan, perhaps) wrote that it could have been a person who
    was sick, a fallen cyclist or many other reasons for a person lying on the
    road. That got my attention and I understand better why court ruled against
    the driver. Let's face it, every time anyone does almost anything (driving
    in particular, in this case) there's a risk involved. Sometimes the risk is
    being in a situation where there are too many variables to cope with and an
    accident occurs through the variable that wasn't noted.

    I'm still peeved that the drunk got a substantial payout, though. The
    driving without due care and attention I can understand, but I would have
    thought the reason for lying on the road (drunken irresponsibility) would
    have reduced the compensation payout substantially more than it did (close
    to bugger all payment, if I was the judge!).

    Cheers,

    Frank
     
  14. Greenboy

    Greenboy New Member

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    We still don't have many details given somebody was killed - anybody have any ideas as to how we can get some details this week.
     
  15. "Euan" wrote:
    > [email protected] (dewatf) writes:
    >
    >
    >> If the bus had right of way

    >
    > No such thing as a right of way in Australia. Road users have a duty of
    > care to each other, a road user approaching a stop sign has a duty to
    > stop at the stop sign but there is no right of way.


    Stop and give way. So this de facto gives an intended safe passage to other
    vehicles.

    >> and didn't see or couldn't avoid the
    >> cyclist then that would be the case. Or the cyclist may have illegally
    >> tried to cut up the side of the bus already changing lanes.

    >
    > A cyclist can quite legally overtake another vehicle on the left as you
    > well know. Not always the safest course and a course that should be
    > exercised with caution.


    Neither legal nor safe if the vehicle being overtaken is a left-turning bus,
    which it sounds like may have been the case here.

    Cheers
    Peter
     
  16. Euan

    Euan Guest

    "Peter Signorini" <[email protected]> writes:

    > "Euan" wrote:
    >> [email protected] (dewatf) writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>> If the bus had right of way

    >>
    >> No such thing as a right of way in Australia. Road users have a duty of
    >> care to each other, a road user approaching a stop sign has a duty to
    >> stop at the stop sign but there is no right of way.

    >
    > Stop and give way. So this de facto gives an intended safe passage to other
    > vehicles.


    De facto does not mean that it's correct. There is no such thing as a
    right of way in the Australian road rules, just duty of care.

    >> A cyclist can quite legally overtake another vehicle on the left as you
    >> well know. Not always the safest course and a course that should be
    >> exercised with caution.

    >
    > Neither legal nor safe if the vehicle being overtaken is a left-turning bus,
    > which it sounds like may have been the case here.


    That depends entirely on when the bus a) indicated and b) commenced the
    maneuver. Seems to me that for Australians indicating occurs after the
    maneuver has started.

    You don't know, nor do I so there's little fruit in debating further.
    --
    Cheers | ~~ [email protected]
    Euan | ~~ _-\<,
    Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
     
  17. "Euan" wrote:
    > "Peter Signorini" writes:


    >> Stop and give way. So this de facto gives an intended safe passage to
    >> other
    >> vehicles.

    >
    > De facto does not mean that it's correct. There is no such thing as a
    > right of way in the Australian road rules, just duty of care.


    Oh, I agree antirely. Just wish more people would do it.

    >> Neither legal nor safe if the vehicle being overtaken is a left-turning
    >> bus,
    >> which it sounds like may have been the case here.

    >
    > That depends entirely on when the bus a) indicated and b) commenced the
    > maneuver. Seems to me that for Australians indicating occurs after the
    > maneuver has started.
    >
    > You don't know, nor do I so there's little fruit in debating further.


    'Sokay! I just meant that there are all manner of possibilities in this
    tragic incident. Don't want to tar the cyclist, nor the bus driver, who's no
    doubt suffering plenty of angst and regrets.

    Cheers
    Peter
     
  18. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Absent Husband wrote:
    >
    > Here is a link from the News Ltd website.
    >
    > http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17744360-421,00.html
    >
    > The bit about the cyclist is right at the bottom. A male cyclist, hit
    > by a bus on teh corner of Grey & Melbourne Streets at South Brisbane,
    > just after midday.......
    >
    > :(
    >
    > Abby


    I see a lot of cyclists through there on old deadly treddlies, no
    helmets, carrying shopping bags, etc... I hope it's not one of those
    cases where people are going to stand up and b!tch about how unsafe the
    cyclists are.

    Tam
     
  19. dewatf

    dewatf Guest

    On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 21:49:55 GMT, Euan <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[email protected] (dewatf) writes:
    >
    >
    >> If the bus had right of way

    >
    >No such thing as a right of way in Australia. Road users have a duty of
    >care to each other, a road user approaching a stop sign has a duty to
    >stop at the stop sign but there is no right of way.


    The road rules clearly set out who has to give way. The other vehicle
    thus has right of way. Give way is never specifically defined, the
    laws refer to the dictionary for meaning and state that slowing down
    or stopping so as to avoid a collision is required in certain
    circumstances.

    >A cyclist can quite legally overtake another vehicle on the left as you
    >well know. Not always the safest course and a course that should be
    >exercised with caution. The overtaking vehicle, in this hypothetical
    >case the cyclist, has the higher duty of care in this situation.


    A cyclist can only overtake a stationary vehicle that is not
    indicating it is turning left on leff.

    dewatf.
     
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