Cyclist Safety - Submissions to the Victorian Government

[cfsmtb]

From the Audax list, please read

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please read the two messages below

It regards the acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government re
the safety of cyclists on the road. For some of us this is 2,000km
away... But the movement has to start from somewhere! You may b
inspired... Regards

Steve Smit

P.S.Pass on to any other cyclists you may know

-----Original Message----- From: [email protected].a
[mailto[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 10 June 2004 1:5
P

<email addresses removed

Subject: Action - road rage an cyclist

Road rage against cyclists (or at the very least a misunderstanding an
lack of knowledge of the rights of cyclists on roads), is an area o
concern for anyone who rides. Not only for the sake of safety, but als
for the sake of reducing the stress of riding, if all road users wer
aware of cyclists, and their status as legitimate road users

The email below, initiated by Mark Higginbotham of the Victorian Polic
Prosecutions Division, identifies an opportunity for any road users, an
in the above context specifically cyclist, to confirm that this is a
important issue, and that some changes and actions are required

Please read the email below, respond to Sand Cook (Executive officer o
the review), and indicate your opinion on any safety issues related t
cyclist,In particular is the issue of minimum distances that vehicle
should have to adhere to when passing cyclists. Many of you would hav
been in a situation of not only being hit, but having the whit's scare
out of you by a vehicle passing too close. These close calls do no
help to encourage cycling, nor make it as pleasant an experience tha
it could be

Please send in any submission OR at the very least forward this email t
AT LEAST 3 other cyclists you know so that they may have the chance t
contribute, and get a few stories off their chests

Go for it, let the Govt know that it is an issue, and we need som
changes. Cheers

Pau

Subject: From Mark Higginbotha

There is a parliamentary committee looking into law reform that ma
reduce road rage. This is an opportunity to improve the status o
cyclists on Victorian roads. I strongly suggest that you all make
submission, urgently, to Sandy Cook, Executive Officer of the Drugs an
Crime Prevention Committee. There is a committee meeting being held o
the 21/6 and the discussion paper has already been published

The agenda of this committee will be more difficult to expand very soon
Email: [email protected].a

I spoke with her this morning and she has had 5 submissions statewide
This will suggest to the government that it is a non-issue and nothin
will happen

In most of the states of the US and in most of the countries of Europ
there are prescribed minimum distances that must exist when a moto
vehicle passes a bicycle

My experience is that impatient drivers who resent the presence o
bicycles on roads take chances by forcing their way past when there i
insufficient space. Please tap out an email and send it to Sandy. Th
committee wants some sense of the measure of the problem of road rag
and also to design strategies to reduce it. At the very least let he
know, should you agree,that cyclists are commonly the victims of roa
rage that is an expression of the lack of status given to them by man
motorists

Forward this to anyone you think has something to add. Mark
Higginbotham Leading Senior Constable Prosecutions Division Research an
Training Unit Level 2 456 Lonsdale Street Melbourne 3000 Phone 8628328
Fax 9670756


-

 

[Unkey Munkey]

In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons or SS
commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards road rage against
cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I also saw some statistics
that this is the most common type of vehicle driven by men who visit
brothels.
Is there a link between the two?

- UM

 

[Theo Bekkers]

"Unkey Munkey" wrote
> I also saw some statistics
> that this is the most common type of vehicle driven by men who visit
> brothels.

Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and accessories?

Theo

 

[hippy]

>Originally posted by Unkey Munkey In my experience, tradesmen in hotte
>up utes (XR8 falcons or SS commodores) seem to have a predispositio
>towards road rage against cyclists, especially overtaking too close

My experience is similar to this, plus the habit of women driving larg
four-wheel-drive vehicles turning left across my path, presumabl
because they cannot judge my speed or don't care

>I also saw some statistics that this is the most common type of vehicl
>driven by men who visit brothels. Is there a link between the two

You'd think they'd be all chilled out after a visit?!? :-

hipp


-

 

[Unkey Munkey]

Theo Bekkers wrote:
> "Unkey Munkey" wrote
>
>> I also saw some statistics
>>that this is the most common type of vehicle driven by men who visit
>>brothels.
>
>
> Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and accessories?
>
> Theo
>
>
Yes, somebody stood outside a brothel (in Sydney I believe!) and
recorded makes of cars. I read it in some journal, a sociology research
project. The conclusion was that (a) guys who drive flash cars like to
spend money on themselves, or to gratify their egos (duh!) and (b)
tradesmen have access to cash income plus a fluctuating income stream,
so it is harder for their wives to work out that they have been spending
money on prostitutes (harder than say, I guy on a fixed salary that goes
straight into the bank).

- UM

Many stranger things have been done in the name of social science ...

http://www.ithaca.edu/beins/methods/demos/tearoom.htm

TEAROOM TRADE
How ethical is this study?
A researcher was interested in the men who participated in sexual
activity in a public place, that is, their personal characteristics and
the nature of the sexual activity. His first step was to engage in
observation of such activity in a public restroom in a park within a
large city; these places were known as "tearooms." The general pattern
was for the men to drive to the park, enter the public restroom, and
engage in the desired behavior.

The researcher often served as what was called the "watch queen," that
is, a lookout to prevent individuals who might cause trouble from
interrupting the sexual activity. In general, interruptions of the
activity occurred due to the presence of local teenagers or police. This
activity was technically illegal when the study was done (in the 1960s),
so it would have been troublesome if the police arrived on the scene.

He gathered his information on 50 sex acts (mostly oral sex) involving
over 100 men. Then he obtained personal information about these
individuals. He copied down their license plate numbers, went to the
police and, giving a false cover story, obtained names and addresses
based on the license plates, and subsequently interviewed the men. He
informed them that it was part of a marketing research project.

Analysis of responses to the interview revealed that "when the
characteristics of the participants were compared with those of typical
males from the same urban area, no striking differences in terms of
occupations, marital status, socioeconomic characteristics, and the like
were found. Aside from their participation in clandestine homosexual
activity, there was little to distinguish these men from typical adult
males" (Reynolds, 1982, p. 68).

 

[amirm]

Unkey Munkey wrote:
> In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons or SS
> commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards road rage against
> cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I also saw some statistics
> that this is the most common type of vehicle driven by men who visit
> brothels. Is there a link between the two?
> - UM


Sorry cfsmtb, this thread was almost killed instantly by this tast
topic. Gotta add some input here ;

One way of analysing these observations, and relating them, could be

- those ute drivers visit brothels frequentl
- those ute drivers drive passed bikes with close distanc

therefore, visiting brothel and passing by a rider at close distanc
would have the same effect on ute drivers

mmm, has tight lycra got something to do here? or other things lik
shaved legs, riding position etc.? eeeww! that's why I see them smile a
they just pass... :


-

 

[ritcho]

cfsmtb wrote:
> From the Audax list, please read,
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Please read the two messages below.
> It regards the acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government re:
> the safety of cyclists on the road.
> [snip]


I don't know about making changes - rule 144 of the Australian Roa
rules seems to be the relevant one for overtaking any vehicle
including bicycles

--------------------------------------------------------
144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking A driver overtaking
vehicle
(a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a collisio
with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle; an
(b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where th
vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient distance pas
the vehicle to avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing th
path of the vehicle
--------------------------------------------------------

I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule. In other words
I don't think that changing the rule will help very much if driver
ignore it anyway. I'd rather spend more effort in convincing motorist
(and cyclists) to just observe the rules as they already are

Ritc


-

 

[flyingdutch]

Born out of frustration and territorial behaviour, me think

I see so many drivers scowl at you if you pass (god forbid you do it o
the right as this must be the ultimate putdown for them

I couldnt remember the amount of times that cars have accelerated by me
just to acclerate by me and them come to a very abrupt halt 10-50
metres later up the butt of the car in front cos of the basic principl
of e = mc

( Eeediot = motorcar squared

Your right re the tradey's tho (sorry guys. lerv yor Utes. want one
dont wanna drive like you tho!) But they do tend to 'muscel' you more
Inevitably 16yr olds get influenced by the 20-something gut they wor
for and ride with (and eat pies and coffee BigM's with ) and lear
from an idiot, and hence become a **** drive

As mentioned in many other threads, you gotta stand up for your rights
dont give up the fight! Ride confidentally. in the left-centre of th
lane. not gutter-crawl. Signal clearly (when you physically can) et

Off th write an email to Higgy-baby now..


-

 

[amirm]

Unkey Munkey wrote:
> (snip)
> (a) guys who drive flash cars like to spend money on themselves, or to
> gratify their egos (duh!) and
> (b) tradesmen have access to cash income plus a fluctuating income
> stream, so it is harder for their wives to work out that they have
> been spending money
> (snip)
> (c) The general pattern was for the men to drive to the park, enter the
> public restroom, and engage in the desired behavior.
> (snip)




Some mind-blowing discoveries (as itemised). Thanks to these studies now
I know my conduct in public toilets follows the general pattern! Who
funds these sort of research???

I thought it would be normal for ANY one (regardless of gender) to try
to spend as least time as possible in smelly public toilets. Apparently
this was not clear in '60s.



--

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Theo Bekkers wrote:
>
> "Unkey Munkey" wrote
> > I also saw some statistics
> > that this is the most common type of vehicle driven by men who visit
> > brothels.
>
> Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and accessories?
>
> Theo

As a postgrad research student I can say that almost certainly someone
has stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and accessories and if
not, someone will soon after reading these posts. And then you can call
them doctor.

T

 

[warrwych]

wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking A driver overtaking a
> vehicle:
> (a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a collision
> with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle; and
> (b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where the
> vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient distance past
> the vehicle to avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the
> path of the vehicle.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule. In other words,
> I don't think that changing the rule will help very much if drivers
> ignore it anyway. I'd rather spend more effort in convincing motorists
> (and cyclists) to just observe the rules as they already are!
> Ritch



Ritcho - I totally agree. Had an interesting encounter a few mths back
where I was passed by an older ford sedan (getting into the theme of car
= personality type ;-)) with a guy being held by the lower legs so he
could hand out the rear passenger window and take a swipe at me - tried
to collect my by the shoulder of the jersey but instead just managed to
brush me with his finger tips. This was on an open rural road so they
were doing a fair speed. (Unfortunately they were going at a speed and
rounding a corner that I didnt get a number plate...)

In this case, they managed to keep the car at would have been called a
"safe distance' ;-). Just not the bodies in the car.... Unfortunately in
this case, a bunch of young guys killing time on a Sunday afternoon in a
small country town - how do you change mentality in those situations????



--

 

[warrwych]

warrwych wrote:
> Ritcho - I totally agree. Had an interesting encounter a few mths back
> where I was passed by an older ford sedan (getting into the theme of car
> = personality type ;-)) with a guy being held by the lower legs so he
> could hand out the rear passenger window
> ?


sorry .. that should be hang out .. not hand out (wouldnt have minde
one of those ;-)


-

 

[flyingdutch]

Now, where can I store one of these on my bike??

and if youre reading this, write to that email address too:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/adenhollander/Anti-Road_Rage_1.wm


-

 

[amirm]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Now, where can I store one of these on my bike???
> and if youre reading this, write to that email address too
> http://home.iprimus.com.au/adenhollander/Anti-Road_Rage_1.wmv


You'd need a tandem... :


-

 

[ritcho]

warrwych wrote:
> [snip story of young louts]
> In this case, they managed to keep the car at would have been called a
> "safe distance' ;-). Just not the bodies in the car.... Unfortunately in
> this case, a bunch of young guys killing time on a Sunday afternoon in a
> small country town - how do you change mentality in those situations????


Aha! Maybe not violating rule 144, but they violated rule 268 concernin
travel in a vehicle. The relevant subsections are (3) and (4

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Rule 268: How persons must travel in or on a motor vehicle ..
(3) A person must not travel in or on a motor vehicle with any part o
the person’s body outside a window or door of the vehicle, unles
the person is the driver of the vehicle and is giving a hand signal
(a) for changing direction to the right in accordance with rule 50; o
(b) for stopping or slowing in accordance with rule 55. Offenc
provision
(4) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus) must not drive with
passenger if any part of the passenger’s body is outside a window o
door of the vehicle. Offence provision
------------------------------------------------------------------
---------

Those pesky louts

Ritc


-

 

[DRS]

"amirm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Unkey Munkey wrote:
> > In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons or SS
> > commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards road rage
> against > cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I also saw
> some statistics > that this is the most common type of vehicle
> driven by men who visit > brothels. Is there a link between the two?
>
> Sorry cfsmtb, this thread was almost killed instantly by this tasty
> topic. Gotta add some input here
>
> One way of analysing these observations, and relating them, could be:
>
> - those ute drivers visit brothels frequently
> - those ute drivers drive passed bikes with close distance
>
> therefore, visiting brothel and passing by a rider at close distance
> would have the same effect on ute drivers.

Actually, what it means is that bike riders who don't want ute drivers
passing them too closely should stop riding past so many brothels, eh?

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[cfsmtb]

This thread originally took off calmly, then a flukey gust lifted it's little wings and made it flutter off to strange places....reading through this has been a seriously surreal experience....



--

 

[Megan Webb]

Yeah, Except 'a safe distance' is defined as ' I didn't hit them' :-(

ritcho <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> cfsmtb wrote:
> > From the Audax list, please read,
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Please read the two messages below.
> > It regards the acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government re:
> > the safety of cyclists on the road.
> > [snip]
>
>
>
> I don't know about making changes - rule 144 of the Australian Road
> rules seems to be the relevant one for overtaking any vehicle,
> including bicycles.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking A driver overtaking a
> vehicle:
> (a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a collision
> with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle; and
> (b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where the
> vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient distance past
> the vehicle to avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the
> path of the vehicle.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule. In other words,
> I don't think that changing the rule will help very much if drivers
> ignore it anyway. I'd rather spend more effort in convincing motorists
> (and cyclists) to just observe the rules as they already are!
>
> Ritch
>
>
>
> --

 

[warrwych]

Megan Webb wrote:
> Yeah, Except 'a safe distance' is defined as ' I didn't hit them' :-(
> r



or in my case - bugger I missed!! lolol



--