Cyclist Safety - Submissions to the Victorian Government

[cfsmtb]

From the Audax list, please read,

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please read the two messages below.

It regards the acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government re: the safety of cyclists on the road.
For some of us this is 2,000kms away... But the movement has to start from somewhere!
You may be inspired...
Regards,

Steve Smith

P.S.
Pass on to any other cyclists you may know.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, 10 June 2004 1:58 PM

<email addresses removed>

Subject: Action - road rage an cyclists

Road rage against cyclists (or at the very least a misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of the rights of cyclists on roads), is an area of concern for anyone who rides. Not only for the sake of safety, but also for the sake of reducing the stress of riding, if all road users were aware of cyclists, and their status as legitimate road users.

The email below, initiated by Mark Higginbotham of the Victorian Police Prosecutions Division, identifies an opportunity for any road users, and in the above context specifically cyclist, to confirm that this is an important issue, and that some changes and actions are required.

Please read the email below, respond to Sand Cook (Executive officer of the review), and indicate your opinion on any safety issues related to cyclist,In particular is the issue of minimum distances that vehicles should have to adhere to when passing cyclists. Many of you would have been in a situation of not only being hit, but having the whit's scared out of you by a vehicle passing too close. These close calls do not help to encourage cycling, nor
make it as pleasant an experience that it could be.

Please send in any submission OR at the very least forward this email to AT LEAST 3 other cyclists you know so that they may have the chance to contribute, and get a few stories off their chests.

Go for it, let the Govt know that it is an issue, and we need some changes.
Cheers,

Paul


Subject: From Mark Higginbotham

There is a parliamentary committee looking into law reform that may reduce road rage.
This is an opportunity to improve the status of cyclists on Victorian roads.
I strongly suggest that you all make a submission, urgently, to Sandy Cook, Executive Officer of the Drugs and Crime Prevention Committee.
There is a committee meeting being held on the 21/6 and the discussion paper has already been published.

The agenda of this committee will be more difficult to expand very soon. Email: [email protected]

I spoke with her this morning and she has had 5 submissions statewide. This will suggest to the government that it is a non-issue and nothing will happen.

In most of the states of the US and in most of the countries of Europe there are prescribed minimum distances that must exist when a motor vehicle passes a bicycle.

My experience is that impatient drivers who resent the presence of bicycles on roads take chances by forcing their way past when there is insufficient space.
Please tap out an email and send it to Sandy. The committee wants some sense of the measure of the problem of road rage and also to design strategies to reduce it. At the very least let her know, should you agree,that cyclists are commonly the victims of road rage that is an expression of the lack of status given to them by many motorists.

Forward this to anyone you think has something to add.
Mark S Higginbotham
Leading Senior Constable
Prosecutions Division
Research and Training Unit
Level 2 456 Lonsdale Street
Melbourne 3000
Phone 86283280 Fax 96707563

 

[Unkey Munkey]

In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons
or SS commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards road
rage against cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I
also saw some statistics that this is the most common type
of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels. Is there a link
between the two?

- UM

 

[Theo Bekkers]

"Unkey Munkey" wrote
> I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
> type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels.

Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and
accessories?

Theo

 

[hippy]

>Originally posted by Unkey Munkey
>In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons
>or SS commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards
>road rage against cyclists, especially overtaking too close.

My experience is similar to this, plus the habit of women
driving large four-wheel-drive vehicles turning left across my
path, presumably because they cannot judge my speed or
don't care?

>I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
>type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels. Is there a
>link between the two?

You'd think they'd be all chilled out after a visit?!?

hippy

 

[Unkey Munkey]

Theo Bekkers wrote:
> "Unkey Munkey" wrote
>
>> I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
>> type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels.
>
>
> Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and
> accessories?
>
> Theo
>
>
Yes, somebody stood outside a brothel (in Sydney I believe!)
and recorded makes of cars. I read it in some journal, a
sociology research project. The conclusion was that (a) guys
who drive flash cars like to spend money on themselves, or
to gratify their egos (duh!) and (b) tradesmen have access
to cash income plus a fluctuating income stream, so it is
harder for their wives to work out that they have been
spending money on prostitutes (harder than say, I guy on a
fixed salary that goes straight into the bank).

- UM

Many stranger things have been done in the name of social
science ...

http://www.ithaca.edu/beins/methods/demos/tearoom.htm

TEAROOM TRADE How ethical is this study?

activity in a public place, that is, their personal
characteristics and

observation of such activity in a public restroom in a
park within a large city; these places were known as
"tearooms." The general pattern was for the men to drive
to the park, enter the public restroom, and engage in the
desired behavior.

The researcher often served as what was called the "watch
queen," that is, a lookout to prevent individuals who might
cause trouble from

activity occurred due to the presence of local teenagers or
police. This activity was technically illegal when the study
was done (in the 1960s), so it would have been troublesome
if the police arrived on the scene.

over 100 men. Then he obtained personal information about
these individuals. He copied down their license plate
numbers, went to the police and, giving a false cover story,
obtained names and addresses based on the license plates,
and subsequently interviewed the men. He informed them that
it was part of a marketing research project.

Analysis of responses to the interview revealed that "when
the characteristics of the participants were compared with
those of typical males from the same urban area, no striking
differences in terms of occupations, marital status,
socioeconomic characteristics, and the like

activity, there was little to distinguish these men from
typical adult males" (Reynolds, 1982, p. 68).

 

[amirm]

Originally posted by Unkey Munkey
In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons
or SS commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards road
rage against cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I
also saw some statistics that this is the most common type
of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels. Is there a link
between the two?

- UM

Sorry cfsmtb, this thread was almost killed instantly by this tasty topic. Gotta add some input here

One way of analysing these observations, and relating them, could be:

- those ute drivers visit brothels frequently
- those ute drivers drive passed bikes with close distance

therefore, visiting brothel and passing by a rider at close distance would have the same effect on ute drivers.

mmm, has tight lycra got something to do here? or other things like shaved legs, riding position etc.? eeeww! that's why I see them smile as they just pass...

 

[ritcho]

Originally posted by cfsmtb
From the Audax list, please read,

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please read the two messages below.

It regards the acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government re: the safety of cyclists on the road.

[snip]

I don't know about making changes - rule 144 of the Australian Road rules seems to be the relevant one for overtaking any vehicle, including bicycles.

---------------------------------------------------------
144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking
A driver overtaking a vehicle:
(a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a
collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the
vehicle; and
(b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where
the vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient
distance past the vehicle to avoid a collision with the
vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle.
---------------------------------------------------------

I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule. In other words, I don't think that changing the rule will help very much if drivers ignore it anyway. I'd rather spend more effort in convincing motorists (and cyclists) to just observe the rules as they already are!

Ritch

 

[amirm]

Originally posted by Unkey Munkey


(snip)

(a) guys
who drive flash cars like to spend money on themselves, or
to gratify their egos (duh!) and

(b) tradesmen have access
to cash income plus a fluctuating income stream, so it is
harder for their wives to work out that they have been
spending money

(snip)

(c) The general pattern was for the men to drive
to the park, enter the public restroom, and engage in the
desired behavior.

(snip)

Some mind-blowing discoveries (as itemised). Thanks to these studies now I know my conduct in public toilets follows the general pattern! Who funds these sort of research???

I thought it would be normal for ANY one (regardless of gender) to try to spend as least time as possible in smelly public toilets. Apparently this was not clear in '60s.

 

[flyingdutch]

Born out of frustration and territorial behaviour, me thinks

I see so many drivers scowl at you if you pass (god forbid you do it on the right as this must be the ultimate putdown for them )

I couldnt remember the amount of times that cars have accelerated by me, just to acclerate by me and them come to a very abrupt halt 10-50m metres later up the butt of the car in front cos of the basic principle of e = mc2

( Eeediot = motorcar squared )

Your right re the tradey's tho
(sorry guys. lerv yor Utes. want one.
dont wanna drive like you tho!)
But they do tend to 'muscel' you more.
Inevitably 16yr olds get influenced by the 20-something gut they work for and ride with (and eat pies and coffee BigM's with )
and learn from an idiot, and hence become a **** driver

As mentioned in many other threads, you gotta stand up for your rights, dont give up the fight!
Ride confidentally. in the left-centre of the lane. not gutter-crawl.
Signal clearly (when you physically can) etc

Off th write an email to Higgy-baby now...

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Theo Bekkers wrote:
>
> "Unkey Munkey" wrote
> > I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
> > type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels.
>
> Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and
> accessories?
>
> Theo

As a postgrad research student I can say that almost
certainly someone has stood outside a brothel and noted car
makes and accessories and if not, someone will soon after
reading these posts. And then you can call them doctor.

T

 

[warrwych]

---------------------------------------------------------
144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking
A driver overtaking a vehicle:
(a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a
collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the
vehicle; and
(b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where
the vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient
distance past the vehicle to avoid a collision with the
vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle.
---------------------------------------------------------

I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule. In other words, I don't think that changing the rule will help very much if drivers ignore it anyway. I'd rather spend more effort in convincing motorists (and cyclists) to just observe the rules as they already are!

Ritch [/B]

Ritcho - I totally agree. Had an interesting encounter a few mths back where I was passed by an older ford sedan (getting into the theme of car = personality type ;-)) with a guy being held by the lower legs so he could hand out the rear passenger window and take a swipe at me - tried to collect my by the shoulder of the jersey but instead just managed to brush me with his finger tips. This was on an open rural road so they were doing a fair speed. (Unfortunately they were going at a speed and rounding a corner that I didnt get a number plate...)

In this case, they managed to keep the car at would have been called a "safe distance' ;-). Just not the bodies in the car.... Unfortunately in this case, a bunch of young guys killing time on a Sunday afternoon in a small country town - how do you change mentality in those situations????

 

[warrwych]

Originally posted by warrwych
Ritcho - I totally agree. Had an interesting encounter a few mths back where I was passed by an older ford sedan (getting into the theme of car = personality type ;-)) with a guy being held by the lower legs so he could hand out the rear passenger window

?

sorry .. that should be hang out .. not hand out (wouldnt have minded one of those ;-))

 

[flyingdutch]

Now, where can I store one of these on my bike???

and if youre reading this, write to that email address too

http://home.iprimus.com.au/adenhollander/Anti-Road_Rage_1.wmv

 

[amirm]

Originally posted by flyingdutch
Now, where can I store one of these on my bike???

and if youre reading this, write to that email address too

http://home.iprimus.com.au/adenhollander/Anti-Road_Rage_1.wmv

You'd need a tandem...

 

[ritcho]

Originally posted by warrwych


[snip story of young louts]

In this case, they managed to keep the car at would have been called a "safe distance' ;-). Just not the bodies in the car.... Unfortunately in this case, a bunch of young guys killing time on a Sunday afternoon in a small country town - how do you change mentality in those situations????

Aha! Maybe not violating rule 144, but they violated rule 268 concerning travel in a vehicle. The relevant subsections are (3) and (4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule 268: How persons must travel in or on a motor vehicle
...
(3) A person must not travel in or on a motor vehicle with any part
of the person’s body outside a window or door of the vehicle,
unless the person is the driver of the vehicle and is giving a
hand signal:
(a) for changing direction to the right in accordance with
rule 50; or
(b) for stopping or slowing in accordance with rule 55.
Offence provision.
(4) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus) must not drive
with a passenger if any part of the passenger’s body is outside a
window or door of the vehicle.
Offence provision.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those pesky louts!

Ritch

 

[Drs]

"amirm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Unkey Munkey wrote:
> > In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8
> > falcons or SS commodores) seem to have a
> > predisposition towards road rage
> against > cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I
> also saw some statistics > that this is the most common
> type of vehicle driven by men who visit > brothels. Is
> there a link between the two?
>
> Sorry cfsmtb, this thread was almost killed instantly by
> this tasty topic. Gotta add some input here
>
> One way of analysing these observations, and relating
> them, could be:
>
> - those ute drivers visit brothels frequently
> - those ute drivers drive passed bikes with close distance
>
> therefore, visiting brothel and passing by a rider at
> close distance would have the same effect on ute drivers.

Actually, what it means is that bike riders who don't want
ute drivers passing them too closely should stop riding past
so many brothels, eh?

--

A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[cfsmtb]

This thread originally took off calmly, then a flukey gust lifted it's little wings and made it flutter off to strange places....reading through this has been a seriously surreal experience....

 

[Megan Webb]

Yeah, Except 'a safe distance' is defined as ' I didn't hit them' :-(

ritcho <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> cfsmtb wrote:
> > From the Audax list, please read,
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Please read the two messages below. It regards the
> > acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government
> > re: the safety of cyclists on the road. [snip]
>
>
>
> I don't know about making changes - rule 144 of the
> Australian Road rules seems to be the relevant one for
> overtaking any vehicle, including bicycles.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking A driver
> overtaking a vehicle:
> (a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to
> avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the
> path of the vehicle; and
> (b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic
> where the vehicle is travelling until the driver is a
> sufficient distance past the vehicle to avoid a
> collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of
> the vehicle.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule.
> In other words, I don't think that changing the rule will
> help very much if drivers ignore it anyway. I'd rather
> spend more effort in convincing motorists (and cyclists)
> to just observe the rules as they already are!
>
> Ritch
>
>
>
> --

 

[warrwych]

Originally posted by Megan Webb
Yeah, Except 'a safe distance' is defined as ' I didn't hit them' :-(

r

or in my case - bugger I missed!! lolol