Cyclist Safety - Submissions to the Victorian Government

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by cfsmtb, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    From the Audax list, please read,

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Please read the two messages below.

    It regards the acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government re: the safety of cyclists on the road.
    For some of us this is 2,000kms away... But the movement has to start from somewhere!
    You may be inspired...
    Regards,

    Steve Smith

    P.S.
    Pass on to any other cyclists you may know.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: [email protected] [mailto:p[email protected]]
    Sent: Thursday, 10 June 2004 1:58 PM

    <email addresses removed>

    Subject: Action - road rage an cyclists

    Road rage against cyclists (or at the very least a misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of the rights of cyclists on roads), is an area of concern for anyone who rides. Not only for the sake of safety, but also for the sake of reducing the stress of riding, if all road users were aware of cyclists, and their status as legitimate road users.

    The email below, initiated by Mark Higginbotham of the Victorian Police Prosecutions Division, identifies an opportunity for any road users, and in the above context specifically cyclist, to confirm that this is an important issue, and that some changes and actions are required.

    Please read the email below, respond to Sand Cook (Executive officer of the review), and indicate your opinion on any safety issues related to cyclist,In particular is the issue of minimum distances that vehicles should have to adhere to when passing cyclists. Many of you would have been in a situation of not only being hit, but having the whit's scared out of you by a vehicle passing too close. These close calls do not help to encourage cycling, nor
    make it as pleasant an experience that it could be.

    Please send in any submission OR at the very least forward this email to AT LEAST 3 other cyclists you know so that they may have the chance to contribute, and get a few stories off their chests.

    Go for it, let the Govt know that it is an issue, and we need some changes.
    Cheers,

    Paul


    Subject: From Mark Higginbotham

    There is a parliamentary committee looking into law reform that may reduce road rage.
    This is an opportunity to improve the status of cyclists on Victorian roads.
    I strongly suggest that you all make a submission, urgently, to Sandy Cook, Executive Officer of the Drugs and Crime Prevention Committee.
    There is a committee meeting being held on the 21/6 and the discussion paper has already been published.

    The agenda of this committee will be more difficult to expand very soon. Email: [email protected]

    I spoke with her this morning and she has had 5 submissions statewide. This will suggest to the government that it is a non-issue and nothing will happen.

    In most of the states of the US and in most of the countries of Europe there are prescribed minimum distances that must exist when a motor vehicle passes a bicycle.

    My experience is that impatient drivers who resent the presence of bicycles on roads take chances by forcing their way past when there is insufficient space.
    Please tap out an email and send it to Sandy. The committee wants some sense of the measure of the problem of road rage and also to design strategies to reduce it. At the very least let her know, should you agree,that cyclists are commonly the victims of road rage that is an expression of the lack of status given to them by many motorists.

    Forward this to anyone you think has something to add.
    Mark S Higginbotham
    Leading Senior Constable
    Prosecutions Division
    Research and Training Unit
    Level 2 456 Lonsdale Street
    Melbourne 3000
    Phone 86283280 Fax 96707563
     
    Tags:


  2. Unkey Munkey

    Unkey Munkey Guest

    In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons
    or SS commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards road
    rage against cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I
    also saw some statistics that this is the most common type
    of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels. Is there a link
    between the two?

    - UM
     
  3. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    "Unkey Munkey" wrote
    > I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
    > type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels.

    Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and
    accessories?

    Theo
     
  4. hippy

    hippy New Member

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    >Originally posted by Unkey Munkey
    >In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8 falcons
    >or SS commodores) seem to have a predisposition towards
    >road rage against cyclists, especially overtaking too close.

    My experience is similar to this, plus the habit of women
    driving large four-wheel-drive vehicles turning left across my
    path, presumably because they cannot judge my speed or
    don't care?

    >I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
    >type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels. Is there a
    >link between the two?

    You'd think they'd be all chilled out after a visit?!? :)

    hippy
     
  5. Unkey Munkey

    Unkey Munkey Guest

    Theo Bekkers wrote:
    > "Unkey Munkey" wrote
    >
    >> I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
    >> type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels.
    >
    >
    > Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and
    > accessories?
    >
    > Theo
    >
    >
    Yes, somebody stood outside a brothel (in Sydney I believe!)
    and recorded makes of cars. I read it in some journal, a
    sociology research project. The conclusion was that (a) guys
    who drive flash cars like to spend money on themselves, or
    to gratify their egos (duh!) and (b) tradesmen have access
    to cash income plus a fluctuating income stream, so it is
    harder for their wives to work out that they have been
    spending money on prostitutes (harder than say, I guy on a
    fixed salary that goes straight into the bank).

    - UM

    Many stranger things have been done in the name of social
    science ...

    http://www.ithaca.edu/beins/methods/demos/tearoom.htm

    TEAROOM TRADE How ethical is this study?

    activity in a public place, that is, their personal
    characteristics and

    observation of such activity in a public restroom in a
    park within a large city; these places were known as
    "tearooms." The general pattern was for the men to drive
    to the park, enter the public restroom, and engage in the
    desired behavior.

    The researcher often served as what was called the "watch
    queen," that is, a lookout to prevent individuals who might
    cause trouble from

    activity occurred due to the presence of local teenagers or
    police. This activity was technically illegal when the study
    was done (in the 1960s), so it would have been troublesome
    if the police arrived on the scene.

    over 100 men. Then he obtained personal information about
    these individuals. He copied down their license plate
    numbers, went to the police and, giving a false cover story,
    obtained names and addresses based on the license plates,
    and subsequently interviewed the men. He informed them that
    it was part of a marketing research project.

    Analysis of responses to the interview revealed that "when
    the characteristics of the participants were compared with
    those of typical males from the same urban area, no striking
    differences in terms of occupations, marital status,
    socioeconomic characteristics, and the like

    activity, there was little to distinguish these men from
    typical adult males" (Reynolds, 1982, p. 68).
     
  6. amirm

    amirm New Member

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    Sorry cfsmtb, this thread was almost killed instantly by this tasty topic. Gotta add some input here ;)

    One way of analysing these observations, and relating them, could be:

    - those ute drivers visit brothels frequently
    - those ute drivers drive passed bikes with close distance

    therefore, visiting brothel and passing by a rider at close distance would have the same effect on ute drivers.

    mmm, has tight lycra got something to do here? or other things like shaved legs, riding position etc.? eeeww! that's why I see them smile as they just pass... :D:D
     
  7. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    I don't know about making changes - rule 144 of the Australian Road rules seems to be the relevant one for overtaking any vehicle, including bicycles.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking
    A driver overtaking a vehicle:
    (a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a
    collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the
    vehicle; and
    (b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where
    the vehicle is travelling until the driver is a sufficient
    distance past the vehicle to avoid a collision with the
    vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle.
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule. In other words, I don't think that changing the rule will help very much if drivers ignore it anyway. I'd rather spend more effort in convincing motorists (and cyclists) to just observe the rules as they already are!

    Ritch
     
  8. amirm

    amirm New Member

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    Some mind-blowing discoveries (as itemised). Thanks to these studies now I know my conduct in public toilets follows the general pattern! Who funds these sort of research???

    I thought it would be normal for ANY one (regardless of gender) to try to spend as least time as possible in smelly public toilets. Apparently this was not clear in '60s.
     
  9. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    Born out of frustration and territorial behaviour, me thinks

    I see so many drivers scowl at you if you pass (god forbid you do it on the right as this must be the ultimate putdown for them;) )

    I couldnt remember the amount of times that cars have accelerated by me, just to acclerate by me and them come to a very abrupt halt 10-50m metres later up the butt of the car in front cos of the basic principle of e = mc2

    ( Eeediot = motorcar squared )

    Your right re the tradey's tho
    (sorry guys. lerv yor Utes. want one.
    dont wanna drive like you tho!)
    But they do tend to 'muscel' you more.
    Inevitably 16yr olds get influenced by the 20-something gut they work for and ride with (and eat pies and coffee BigM's with:D )
    and learn from an idiot, and hence become a crap driver

    As mentioned in many other threads, you gotta stand up for your rights, dont give up the fight!
    Ride confidentally. in the left-centre of the lane. not gutter-crawl.
    Signal clearly (when you physically can) etc

    Off th write an email to Higgy-baby now...
     
  10. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Theo Bekkers wrote:
    >
    > "Unkey Munkey" wrote
    > > I also saw some statistics that this is the most common
    > > type of vehicle driven by men who visit brothels.
    >
    > Somebody stood outside a brothel and noted car makes and
    > accessories?
    >
    > Theo

    As a postgrad research student I can say that almost
    certainly someone has stood outside a brothel and noted car
    makes and accessories and if not, someone will soon after
    reading these posts. And then you can call them doctor.

    T
     
  11. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    Ritcho - I totally agree. Had an interesting encounter a few mths back where I was passed by an older ford sedan (getting into the theme of car = personality type ;-)) with a guy being held by the lower legs so he could hand out the rear passenger window and take a swipe at me - tried to collect my by the shoulder of the jersey but instead just managed to brush me with his finger tips. This was on an open rural road so they were doing a fair speed. (Unfortunately they were going at a speed and rounding a corner that I didnt get a number plate...)

    In this case, they managed to keep the car at would have been called a "safe distance' ;-). Just not the bodies in the car.... Unfortunately in this case, a bunch of young guys killing time on a Sunday afternoon in a small country town - how do you change mentality in those situations????
     
  12. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    sorry .. that should be hang out .. not hand out (wouldnt have minded one of those ;-))
     
  13. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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  14. amirm

    amirm New Member

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  15. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    Aha! Maybe not violating rule 144, but they violated rule 268 concerning travel in a vehicle. The relevant subsections are (3) and (4)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rule 268: How persons must travel in or on a motor vehicle
    ...
    (3) A person must not travel in or on a motor vehicle with any part
    of the person’s body outside a window or door of the vehicle,
    unless the person is the driver of the vehicle and is giving a
    hand signal:
    (a) for changing direction to the right in accordance with
    rule 50; or
    (b) for stopping or slowing in accordance with rule 55.
    Offence provision.
    (4) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus) must not drive
    with a passenger if any part of the passenger’s body is outside a
    window or door of the vehicle.
    Offence provision.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Those pesky louts!

    Ritch
     
  16. Drs

    Drs Guest

    "amirm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Unkey Munkey wrote:
    > > In my experience, tradesmen in hotted up utes (XR8
    > > falcons or SS commodores) seem to have a
    > > predisposition towards road rage
    > against > cyclists, especially overtaking too close. I
    > also saw some statistics > that this is the most common
    > type of vehicle driven by men who visit > brothels. Is
    > there a link between the two?
    >
    > Sorry cfsmtb, this thread was almost killed instantly by
    > this tasty topic. Gotta add some input here ;)
    >
    > One way of analysing these observations, and relating
    > them, could be:
    >
    > - those ute drivers visit brothels frequently
    > - those ute drivers drive passed bikes with close distance
    >
    > therefore, visiting brothel and passing by a rider at
    > close distance would have the same effect on ute drivers.

    Actually, what it means is that bike riders who don't want
    ute drivers passing them too closely should stop riding past
    so many brothels, eh?

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
     
  17. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    This thread originally took off calmly, then a flukey gust lifted it's little wings and made it flutter off to strange places....reading through this has been a seriously surreal experience....:D
     
  18. Megan Webb

    Megan Webb Guest

    Yeah, Except 'a safe distance' is defined as ' I didn't hit them' :-(

    ritcho <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > cfsmtb wrote:
    > > From the Audax list, please read,
    > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    > > Please read the two messages below. It regards the
    > > acceptance of submissions to the Victorian Government
    > > re: the safety of cyclists on the road. [snip]
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't know about making changes - rule 144 of the
    > Australian Road rules seems to be the relevant one for
    > overtaking any vehicle, including bicycles.
    >
    > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > 144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking A driver
    > overtaking a vehicle:
    > (a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to
    > avoid a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the
    > path of the vehicle; and
    > (b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic
    > where the vehicle is travelling until the driver is a
    > sufficient distance past the vehicle to avoid a
    > collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of
    > the vehicle.
    > ---------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > I'd be quite happy for people to simply follow the rule.
    > In other words, I don't think that changing the rule will
    > help very much if drivers ignore it anyway. I'd rather
    > spend more effort in convincing motorists (and cyclists)
    > to just observe the rules as they already are!
    >
    > Ritch
    >
    >
    >
    > --
     
  19. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    or in my case - bugger I missed!! lolol
     
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