I
Cyclists need good manners
- Thread starter [email protected]
- Start date
J
John Tserkezis
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> Cyclists need good manners slow
> down and you'll get there on time.
I'm sorry, is your accelerator foot getting itchy?
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>
> Cyclists need good manners slow
> down and you'll get there on time.
I'm sorry, is your accelerator foot getting itchy?
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>
A
Adrian
Guest
[email protected] writes:
> Cyclists need good manners slow down and you'll get there on time.
*shrug*, Cyclists are people, people need good manners.
As I get older I keep slowing down, any slower and I'll be going as
slowly as the parked cars I pass every day on the way to work.
Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
in cars have.
Adrian
> Cyclists need good manners slow down and you'll get there on time.
*shrug*, Cyclists are people, people need good manners.
As I get older I keep slowing down, any slower and I'll be going as
slowly as the parked cars I pass every day on the way to work.
Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
in cars have.
Adrian
T
Terryc
Guest
Adrian wrote:
> As I get older I keep slowing down, any slower and I'll be going as
> slowly as the parked cars I pass every day on the way to work.
Beep, beep. {
.
> As I get older I keep slowing down, any slower and I'll be going as
> slowly as the parked cars I pass every day on the way to work.
Beep, beep. {
.
Z
Zebee Johnstone
Guest
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
> able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
> in cars have.
All people sitting in cars?
Even stopped ones?
PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
Zebee
Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
> able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
> in cars have.
All people sitting in cars?
Even stopped ones?
PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
Zebee
D
Donga
Guest
On Jan 10, 6:13 am, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
>
> Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
> > able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
> > in cars have.
>
> All people sitting in cars?
>
> Even stopped ones?
>
> PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
>
> Zebee
You are still falling for a troll.
The real Donga
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
>
> Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
> > able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
> > in cars have.
>
> All people sitting in cars?
>
> Even stopped ones?
>
> PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
>
> Zebee
You are still falling for a troll.
The real Donga
Z
Zebee Johnstone
Guest
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 6:13 am, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
>>
>> Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
>> > able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
>> > in cars have.
>>
>> All people sitting in cars?
>>
>> Even stopped ones?
>>
>> PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
>>
>> Zebee
>
> You are still falling for a troll.
>
Oh I *know* the original was a troll. But examining prejudices is
always useful.
"You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
Zebee
Zebee
Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 6:13 am, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
>>
>> Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
>> > able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people sitting
>> > in cars have.
>>
>> All people sitting in cars?
>>
>> Even stopped ones?
>>
>> PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
>>
>> Zebee
>
> You are still falling for a troll.
>
Oh I *know* the original was a troll. But examining prejudices is
always useful.
"You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
Zebee
Zebee
T
Theo Bekkers
Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Oh I *know* the original was a troll. But examining prejudices is
> always useful.
>
> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
That's deep. Thanks for that.
> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
Sadly, yes. Even car drivers are only car drivers for a couple of hours or
less a day, < 10%.
Theo
> Oh I *know* the original was a troll. But examining prejudices is
> always useful.
>
> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
That's deep. Thanks for that.
> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
Sadly, yes. Even car drivers are only car drivers for a couple of hours or
less a day, < 10%.
Theo
Z
Zebee Johnstone
Guest
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:29:15 +0900
Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> Oh I *know* the original was a troll. But examining prejudices is
>> always useful.
>>
>> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
>
> That's deep. Thanks for that.
Thank American writer James Baldwin. Can't recall where I read it but
it really stuck with me.
>> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
>> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
>
> Sadly, yes. Even car drivers are only car drivers for a couple of hours or
> less a day, < 10%.
Some people do change when they get into a car. BUt then some people
do change when they get onboard a bicycle too...
Or into a football guernsey or any kind of identifying uniform.
Others don't change much, don't put emotions into a constructed
identity to that level.
There seems to be a lot of emotion bound up in the identity "cyclist"
for some people. Just as there is in "motorcyclist" or "biker' for
some people.
Most folk don't identify with the mode of transport enough to demonise
those who don't use it. Some do.... I think it's a bad idea myself.
Zebee
Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> Oh I *know* the original was a troll. But examining prejudices is
>> always useful.
>>
>> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
>
> That's deep. Thanks for that.
Thank American writer James Baldwin. Can't recall where I read it but
it really stuck with me.
>> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
>> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
>
> Sadly, yes. Even car drivers are only car drivers for a couple of hours or
> less a day, < 10%.
Some people do change when they get into a car. BUt then some people
do change when they get onboard a bicycle too...
Or into a football guernsey or any kind of identifying uniform.
Others don't change much, don't put emotions into a constructed
identity to that level.
There seems to be a lot of emotion bound up in the identity "cyclist"
for some people. Just as there is in "motorcyclist" or "biker' for
some people.
Most folk don't identify with the mode of transport enough to demonise
those who don't use it. Some do.... I think it's a bad idea myself.
Zebee
A
Adrian
Guest
Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> writes:
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
> Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
>> able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people
>> sitting in cars have.
> All people sitting in cars?
Nope, never said that. However in my experience I've been subjected to
far more instances of road-rage and suffered more injuries from people
in cars than from people on bikes.
There are a few psychological aspects of putting a person in a box that
physically matches their perceived personal space (eg a car) that makes
for them firstly strongly identifying with their vehicle and secondly
believing that they are invisible and invulnerable. On a bicycle or
motorbike this doesn't apply, but I think you know that already.
> Even stopped ones?
They'd be the ones who throw the doors open without looking :-(
> PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
True, my original comment was a flippant response to a probable troll.
> Zebee
Adrian
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:39:21 GMT
> Adrian <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Funny, but no matter how slow I go, people on bikes don't seem to be
>> able to match the level of aggression or lethality that people
>> sitting in cars have.
> All people sitting in cars?
Nope, never said that. However in my experience I've been subjected to
far more instances of road-rage and suffered more injuries from people
in cars than from people on bikes.
There are a few psychological aspects of putting a person in a box that
physically matches their perceived personal space (eg a car) that makes
for them firstly strongly identifying with their vehicle and secondly
believing that they are invisible and invulnerable. On a bicycle or
motorbike this doesn't apply, but I think you know that already.
> Even stopped ones?
They'd be the ones who throw the doors open without looking :-(
> PRejudice is ugly no matter who displays it.
True, my original comment was a flippant response to a probable troll.
> Zebee
Adrian
P
PeteSig
Guest
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>
> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
swung at my back by a cyclist.
But I have by car drivers. So there is something seriously misguided about
this particular group of humanity, in their attitudes to me as a cyclist.
Not sub-human at all, just misguided, in general.
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*) P.S. I don't get this sort of treatment when I
am driving my car
>
> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
swung at my back by a cyclist.
But I have by car drivers. So there is something seriously misguided about
this particular group of humanity, in their attitudes to me as a cyclist.
Not sub-human at all, just misguided, in general.
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*) P.S. I don't get this sort of treatment when I
am driving my car
Z
Zebee Johnstone
Guest
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:41:23 GMT
PeteSig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>>
>> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
>> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
>> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
>
> So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
> swung at my back by a cyclist.
You don't know that.
All you know is that someone in a car did that. YOu don't know they
don't also own a bicycle.
You also call them "car drivers", not "people". That's the point.
Zebee
PeteSig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>>
>> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
>> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
>> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
>
> So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
> swung at my back by a cyclist.
You don't know that.
All you know is that someone in a car did that. YOu don't know they
don't also own a bicycle.
You also call them "car drivers", not "people". That's the point.
Zebee
R
Resound
Guest
"PeteSig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>>
>> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
>> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
>> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
>
> So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
> swung at my back by a cyclist.
>
> But I have by car drivers. So there is something seriously misguided
> about this particular group of humanity, in their attitudes to me as a
> cyclist. Not sub-human at all, just misguided, in general.
>
As someone who drives on a reasonably regular basis, I rather object to
being lumped in with the sociopaths you describe. Cultivating an us versus
them mentality is worse than useless, it's actively counterproductive.
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>>
>> "You think of me as black, you force me to think of you as white".
>> Every time cyclists see car drivers as some kind of faceless bogeyman
>> or a distinct subhuman species, they feed the problem.
>
> So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
> swung at my back by a cyclist.
>
> But I have by car drivers. So there is something seriously misguided
> about this particular group of humanity, in their attitudes to me as a
> cyclist. Not sub-human at all, just misguided, in general.
>
As someone who drives on a reasonably regular basis, I rather object to
being lumped in with the sociopaths you describe. Cultivating an us versus
them mentality is worse than useless, it's actively counterproductive.
P
PeteSig
Guest
"Resound" wrote:
>
> As someone who drives on a reasonably regular basis,
As do I, my friend, as do I.
> I rather object to being lumped in with the sociopaths you describe.
> Cultivating an us versus them mentality is worse than useless, it's
> actively counterproductive.
I did say, "in general". There may not be too many who practice this sort of
behaviour, I'd agree, and far be it for me to accuse you of this. But, in
talking to different people, otherwise reasonable people who are drivers, I
am frequently amazed at the antagonism in their attitudes to cyclists on the
roads, and so often the abject falsehoods that they perpetrate about my
right to travel or exist as a bike rider. I do take a very reasonable
approach, and *attempt* to make them more aware of the actual rules, and
actual road conditions. I believe more people than we think hold quite
anti-social attitudes to yours and my right to ride my bike on the roads.
But again, as I said earlier, some people, while driving cars, have done
these things to me (mostly men in their twenties). NO cyclists have done
anything like this to me. And while driving I have had other people driving
cars do some similar things, including one actual assault.
While I am aware of the thread by Andrew J about the tool on St Kilda Rd,
can you say that cyclists do these sorts of things to you?
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
>
> As someone who drives on a reasonably regular basis,
As do I, my friend, as do I.
> I rather object to being lumped in with the sociopaths you describe.
> Cultivating an us versus them mentality is worse than useless, it's
> actively counterproductive.
I did say, "in general". There may not be too many who practice this sort of
behaviour, I'd agree, and far be it for me to accuse you of this. But, in
talking to different people, otherwise reasonable people who are drivers, I
am frequently amazed at the antagonism in their attitudes to cyclists on the
roads, and so often the abject falsehoods that they perpetrate about my
right to travel or exist as a bike rider. I do take a very reasonable
approach, and *attempt* to make them more aware of the actual rules, and
actual road conditions. I believe more people than we think hold quite
anti-social attitudes to yours and my right to ride my bike on the roads.
But again, as I said earlier, some people, while driving cars, have done
these things to me (mostly men in their twenties). NO cyclists have done
anything like this to me. And while driving I have had other people driving
cars do some similar things, including one actual assault.
While I am aware of the thread by Andrew J about the tool on St Kilda Rd,
can you say that cyclists do these sorts of things to you?
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
P
PeteSig
Guest
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>> So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
>> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
>> swung at my back by a cyclist.
>
> You don't know that.
I don't know *what*??
That that driver didn't point a rifle at me? As I stared down the barrel? Or
that some cyclist *has* thrown beer cans at me? Sheesh!!!!
>
> All you know is that someone in a car did that. YOu don't know they
> don't also own a bicycle.
Hehehe! Good joke
> You also call them "car drivers", not "people". That's the point.
Ok, people driving a car pointed a rifle at people riding bikes. They are
still tools as far as I'm concerned, even 20 years on!
No people riding bikes have done such things to me.
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
>> So far I haven't had a rifle pointed at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a
>> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
>> swung at my back by a cyclist.
>
> You don't know that.
I don't know *what*??
That that driver didn't point a rifle at me? As I stared down the barrel? Or
that some cyclist *has* thrown beer cans at me? Sheesh!!!!
>
> All you know is that someone in a car did that. YOu don't know they
> don't also own a bicycle.
Hehehe! Good joke
> You also call them "car drivers", not "people". That's the point.
Ok, people driving a car pointed a rifle at people riding bikes. They are
still tools as far as I'm concerned, even 20 years on!
No people riding bikes have done such things to me.
--
Cheers
Peter
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
T
Theo Bekkers
Guest
PeteSig wrote:
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>> All you know is that someone in a car did that. YOu don't know they
>> don't also own a bicycle.
>
> Hehehe! Good joke
No, As there were more bicycles than cars sold in Oz in the last ten years,
it is almost a dead cert that the person in the car owns a bicycle. Maybe he
doesn't wear lycra and is thus excluded from 'cyclists'.
Theo
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>> All you know is that someone in a car did that. YOu don't know they
>> don't also own a bicycle.
>
> Hehehe! Good joke
No, As there were more bicycles than cars sold in Oz in the last ten years,
it is almost a dead cert that the person in the car owns a bicycle. Maybe he
doesn't wear lycra and is thus excluded from 'cyclists'.
Theo
Z
Zebee Johnstone
Guest
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:37:26 GMT
PeteSig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>>> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
>>> swung at my back by a cyclist.
>>
>> You don't know that.
>
> I don't know *what*??
That a cyclist didn't do it. You know someone in a car did, you have
no way to know what other things that person does when not in a car.
Or is there some strange natural law that no one who is not perfectly
polite and pleasant can swing a leg over a bicycle?
Were you a cyclist when you typed that message?
Zebee
PeteSig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>>> beer can thrown at me by a cyclist. I haven't had a lengthy tree branch
>>> swung at my back by a cyclist.
>>
>> You don't know that.
>
> I don't know *what*??
That a cyclist didn't do it. You know someone in a car did, you have
no way to know what other things that person does when not in a car.
Or is there some strange natural law that no one who is not perfectly
polite and pleasant can swing a leg over a bicycle?
Were you a cyclist when you typed that message?
Zebee
T
Theo Bekkers
Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Some people do change when they get into a car. BUt then some people
> do change when they get onboard a bicycle too...
>
> Or into a football guernsey or any kind of identifying uniform.
>
> Others don't change much, don't put emotions into a constructed
> identity to that level.
>
> There seems to be a lot of emotion bound up in the identity "cyclist"
> for some people. Just as there is in "motorcyclist" or "biker' for
> some people.
>
> Most folk don't identify with the mode of transport enough to demonise
> those who don't use it. Some do.... I think it's a bad idea myself.
Totally agree. I walk, ride, motor and drive but don't class myself as a
pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, or driver.
Theo
> Some people do change when they get into a car. BUt then some people
> do change when they get onboard a bicycle too...
>
> Or into a football guernsey or any kind of identifying uniform.
>
> Others don't change much, don't put emotions into a constructed
> identity to that level.
>
> There seems to be a lot of emotion bound up in the identity "cyclist"
> for some people. Just as there is in "motorcyclist" or "biker' for
> some people.
>
> Most folk don't identify with the mode of transport enough to demonise
> those who don't use it. Some do.... I think it's a bad idea myself.
Totally agree. I walk, ride, motor and drive but don't class myself as a
pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, or driver.
Theo
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