D-A chain noise (?) and correct chain length

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Derk, Jul 23, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Hi!

    I hear an irritating noise when being out of the saddle and moving the bike from left to right to
    accelerate by pulling on the steer while going up a hill. I removed everything I can think of and
    put fat on it (wheels, cranks, bolts, stem etc etc.) I am beginning to think the chain itself is to
    blame. I have 2 questions:

    1) Can a chain itself be the cause of irritating noise? (I once had a Connex 9S chain that did this
    after 500km's)

    2) What is the best way to determine chain length?

    TIA! Derk
     
    Tags:


  2. > I removed everything I can think of and put fat on it (wheels, cranks, bolts, stem etc etc.)

    I'm hoping "fat" is your slang for grease or lube. A freind of mine used "I cant believe it's not
    butter" for repacking the bearings in his rear wheel once. interesting mess to clean up.

    > 2) What is the best way to determine chain length?

    loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure, match
    the ends up and add one link.
     
  3. Derk

    Derk Guest

    slartibartfast wrote:

    > I'm hoping "fat" is your slang for grease or lube.
    As soon as I typed it I realized the English word is Grease. The Dutch word for it is "vet", which
    is similar to the English "fat". I meant grease, though.

    > loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
    > match the ends up and add one link.
    Thanks!, Derk
     
  4. Derk

    Derk Guest

    slartibartfast wrote:

    > loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
    > match the ends up and add one link.
    Today I did exactly this after buying a new D-A chain at my LBS. I showed this to a mechanic and he
    said that is I would take the length I found using this method, it would definately be too short. I
    folllowed his advice, since I am sure he knows more about this then I do and left it longer.

    I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
    this method. According to them 1 inch=2 rivets.

    So are the Parks people right? The length found by using the Parks method corresponds to what my
    mechanic advised me. He used another method, by looking at how low the chain was below the
    derailleur cage and checked it by using the jockey wheel alignment method........

    Greets, Derk
     
  5. On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:05:11 +0200, Derk wrote:

    > slartibartfast wrote:
    >
    >> loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
    >> match the ends up and add one link.
    > Today I did exactly this after buying a new D-A chain at my LBS. I showed this to a mechanic
    > and he said that is I would take the length I found using this method, it would definately be
    > too short. I folllowed his advice, since I am sure he knows more about this then I do and left
    > it longer.
    >
    > I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
    > this method. According to them 1 inch=2
    rivets.

    2 rivets is one link -- one full link. What is different about this method from what you first
    described? Or do you mean an _extra_ inch?

    Bottom line is that the chain has to be long enough to shift into and out of the big-big
    combination. Shorter than that is asking for disaster. On the other side, you should have enough
    take-up so that the small-small comination works without slack, but that is not as critical, since
    if the first fails, something breaks.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
    Tomlin (_)/ (_) |
     
  6. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Werehatrack wrote:

    > First, a piece of unrelated advice: spam.nl is a valid domain, owned by rdweb.nl; they'd probably
    > appreciate it if you didn't use an address that caused their spam load to go up by that much more.
    > The domain invalid.com is guaranteed to be just that; invalid.
    OK, thanks. I didn't know that and I changed it immedaitely. I'll explain to you why I don't put my
    real email address here: I was so foolish to do so a few months ago B4 changing providers. I got
    tens of mails from Africa on a daily basis, written by sons-in-law of former kings, presidents,
    dictators etc etc. I got SO sick of this, that I decided not to publish it anymore. On top of that,
    since we're writing in an open forum, it's better to post messenges in this newsgroup, than emailing
    someone, so that everybody can benefit from the experience other readers (as yourself) have.

    > shift without leaving the chain untensioned. If there's a slack problem, try cleaning the der
    > before making any assumptions about capability to handle the slack; it may just be a case of crud
    > buildup keeping it from going where it needs to go...and if there's *that* much crud, it needed
    > cleaning pretty desperately anyway.
    My D-A group is EXTREMELY clean (I clean it twice a week and don't ride this bike in or after rain),
    so that can't be the cause. My mechanic just told me that this option was out of the question,
    because the derailleur cage was pointing to much forward........

    Thanks for your answer!

    Greets, Derk
     
  7. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Hi Mike,

    MikeYankee wrote:

    > [email protected] isn't winning you any friends. We hate spam, too,
    I'll repeat what I just wrote another reader of this newsgroup:

    I'll explain to you why I don't put my real email address here:

    1)I was so foolish to do so a few months ago B4 changing providers. I got tens of mails from Africa
    on a daily basis, written by sons-in-law of former kings, presidents, dictators etc etc. I got SO
    sick of this, that I decided not to publish it anymore.

    > you want people to help you it's inconsiderate not to post your address -- end of lecture.
    2)since we're writing in an open forum, I feel it's better anyway to post messenges in this
    newsgroup, than emailing someone directly, so that everybody can benefit from the expertise other
    readers (as yourself) have.

    Thanks for your answer btw!

    Greets, Derk
     
  8. A noted fiord designer wrote:

    >>loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
    >>match the ends up and add one link.

    Derk wrote:

    > Today I did exactly this after buying a new D-A chain at my LBS. I showed this to a mechanic
    > and he said that is I would take the length I found using this method, it would definately be
    > too short. I folllowed his advice, since I am sure he knows more about this then I do and left
    > it longer.
    >
    > I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
    > this method. According to them 1 inch=2 rivets.

    That's exactly what slartibartfarst said, also what I recommend at
    http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html.

    This is also what Shimano recommends, except that their translator got confused between complete
    links and half links.

    > So are the Parks people right? The length found by using the Parks method corresponds to what my
    > mechanic advised me. He used another method, by looking at how low the chain was below the
    > derailleur cage and checked it by using the jockey wheel alignment method........

    That's not the best way to go, but since it gave the same result in this instance, where's
    the problem?

    Sheldon "Plus One" Brown +--------------------------------------------+
    | Never worry about theory as long as the | machinery does what it's supposed to do. | --Robert A.
    | Heinlein |
    +--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  9. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Bonsoir l'expert cycliste qui s'est rase la barbe depuis quelque temps! Sheldon Brown wrote:

    > That's not the best way to go, but since it gave the same result in this instance, where's the
    > problem?
    Well, I have 4 bikes and I was looking for a fool proof method that I can use quickly and reliably
    on all my bikes.

    I told my mechanic the following: put the chain over the biggest cog and big chainwheel without
    passing through the derailleur. Then, add 1 link to the shortest way to connect the chain. He did
    this and said: "it's too short"!

    The problem for me was the difference between links and rivets. I thought 2 rivets equalled 2 links,
    but I understand that's not the case.

    Anyway, I couldn't convince him to make the chain shorter, though I think the chain is too long,
    because I hear the chain rattling when I go over bumps. I think it hits the big chainring when I'm
    on the smaller chainring. I ride a 42/53 13-23 D-A group and I'm one of those people who go crazy of
    moises while riding, so I mounted a brand new D-A chain just to find out if the chain's length is to
    blame for the noise, or that something else is causing it.

    BTW: when he judged it using the method recommended by Shimano, I find that the jockey wheels are
    not aligned, but that the lower one is behind the upper one, but according to him one mustn't watch
    the center of the cage bolts, but the wheels themselves, which makes a difference IMHO.

    Sinceres amities, Derk
     
  10. Art Harris

    Art Harris Guest

    Derk wrote:
    > > loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
    > > match the ends up and add one link.

    > I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
    > this method. According to them 1 inch=2 rivets.
    >
    > So are the Parks people right?

    1 link = 1 inch

    A complete link consists of an "inny" and an "outy"

    Art Harris
     
  11. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >it's inconsiderate not to post your address

    You're not getting enough spam yet. Wait a few months....

    I'm up to a consistant 500-600 per day - but mostly for another reason.

    Still, I wouldn't even *think* of posting my legitimate address in a newsgroup any more than I'd put
    my telephone number up and ask strangers to make sales calls to it.
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  12. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Bonsoir l'expert cycliste qui s'est rase la barbe depuis quelque temps!

    > Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > > That's not the best way to go, but since it gave the same result in this instance, where's the
    > > problem?
    > Well, I have 4 bikes and I was looking for a fool proof method that I can use quickly and reliably
    > on all my bikes.

    (derk)> I told my mechanic the following: put the chain over the biggest cog and big
    > chainwheel without passing through the derailleur. Then, add 1 link to the shortest way to connect
    > the chain. He did this and said: "it's too short"!
    >
    > The problem for me was the difference between links and rivets. I thought
    2
    > rivets equalled 2 links, but I understand that's not the case.
    >
    > Anyway, I couldn't convince him to make the chain shorter, though I think the chain is too long,
    > because I hear the chain rattling when I go over bumps. I think it hits the big chainring when I'm
    > on the smaller
    chainring.
    > I ride a 42/53 13-23 D-A group and I'm one of those people who go crazy of moises while riding, so
    > I mounted a brand new D-A chain just to find out
    if
    > the chain's length is to blame for the noise, or that something else is causing it.
    >
    > BTW: when he judged it using the method recommended by Shimano, I find
    that
    > the jockey wheels are not aligned, but that the lower one is behind the upper one, but according
    > to him one mustn't watch the center of the cage bolts, but the wheels themselves, which makes a
    > difference IMHO.

    The chain dragging on the outer ring when in your small one is unrelated to chain length. Annoying,
    but not part of that issue.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  13. Derk

    Derk Guest

    A Muzi wrote:
    > The chain dragging on the outer ring when in your small one is unrelated to chain length.
    > Annoying, but not part of that issue.
    I think I didn't describe this clearly, since I'm no Englsih native speaker: it doesn't make a
    continuous noise because the chain touches the big ring all the time when the chain is on the small
    ring, but it seems to touch the big chainring only when I go over bumps in the street, due to
    lateral flex which I think is caused by it's length. (lack of tension).

    Could that be the case?

    Greets, Derk
     
  14. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    MikeYankee <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Derk --
    >
    > [email protected] isn't winning you any friends. We hate spam, too, but if
    you
    > want people to help you it's inconsiderate not to post your address -- end
    of
    > lecture.
    >
    > Anyhow... >> loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on
    the
    > rear bypassing the derailiure, match the ends up and add one link.
    >
    > This is correct, but it assumes the rider will be smart enough not to
    shift
    > onto the longest cog while on the big ring; or to change to a larger
    cassette
    > without lengthening the chain.

    Why? - I don't see that it assumes any such thing. If your chain is measured long enough to span the
    big-big combo, plus one extra complete link, then shifting to this combo will do no harm outside of
    pulling the chain at an angle it isn't designed to be pulled at (and the reason big-big and
    small-small combos are a 'no-no')

    Shaun aRe - it has never given me, nor anyone I know of, any problem whatsoever.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...