Damned loose crank arm.....

[Shaun Rimmer]

So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a pill, had a hot bath and
climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a lot better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7
miles to my g/f's house to spend the w/e.

Set off, and no probs, hit the first bit of tarmac, and the nice people have 'installed' some 1.5 -
2 metre long, but not very high, speed control ramps all down the (steep) hill. Wooo-hooo! Well,
this means I get to launch off them at 25 + mph, see if I can clean the distance. No probs, and I
clean a couple.

another 3 miles-ish down the road, and notice my r/h crank arm is loose, very clunky loose. ****! -
I still got about 3 1/2 miles to go, and don't have the big allen key in my tool pack. Tried to
tighten the best I could, then ride with a dominant left leg (taking it easy).

Got there eventually, but the crank is all loose again, I figured it would be toast, or at least
need the old clean up and beer can shim-job. Got a lift home with the bike Sunday, got the allen key
out, cranked real hard on it (stood and bounced on the bugger), re-adjusted the mech. (yup - still
in the range it can cover), and took a quick ride up to the shop. So far so good. On the way back
down, I did a couple of drops (one that's a couple of feet with a bunny hop immediately on landing
to clear a ledge), generally bounced on the pedals etc. - still OK.

Same thing on the way to work this morning.

So far, it looks like I may have got away with it - I feckin' hope so.

These cranks have been on for some time, were well tightened when first installed (and
subsequently), and I don't understand why it should ave come loose when it did. They've taken much
more punishment than this before.....

Oh well........

Shaun aRe - Just felt like posting on topic, because apparently, I never
do..... ',;~}

 

[Michael Dart]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a
pill,
> had a hot bath and climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a
lot
> better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7 miles to my g/f's house to spend the w/e.
>
> Set off, and no probs, hit the first bit of tarmac, and the nice people
have
> 'installed' some 1.5 - 2 metre long, but not very high, speed control
ramps
> all down the (steep) hill. Wooo-hooo! Well, this means I get to launch off them at 25 + mph, see
> if I can clean the distance. No probs, and I clean a couple.
>
> another 3 miles-ish down the road, and notice my r/h crank arm is loose, very clunky loose. ****!
> - I still got about 3 1/2 miles to go, and don't have the big allen key in my tool pack. Tried to
> tighten the best I could, then ride with a dominant left leg (taking it easy).
>
> Got there eventually, but the crank is all loose again, I figured it would be toast, or at least
> need the old clean up and beer can shim-job. Got a lift home with the bike Sunday, got the allen
> key out, cranked real hard
on
> it (stood and bounced on the bugger), re-adjusted the mech. (yup - still
in
> the range it can cover), and took a quick ride up to the shop. So far so good. On the way back
> down, I did a couple of drops (one that's a couple
of
> feet with a bunny hop immediately on landing to clear a ledge), generally bounced on the pedals
> etc. - still OK.
>
> Same thing on the way to work this morning.
>
> So far, it looks like I may have got away with it - I feckin' hope so.
>
> These cranks have been on for some time, were well tightened when first installed (and
> subsequently), and I don't understand why it should ave
come
> loose when it did. They've taken much more punishment than this
before.....
>
>
> Oh well........
>
> Shaun aRe - Just felt like posting on topic, because apparently, I never
> do..... ',;~}
>
>
>

If you want to get technical about it you could invest in a 'beam' type torque wrench and torque
that bolt to about 55 newton meters. (about 35-40 foot/pounds) Which is a heck of a lot more force
that I could put on it with a hex key. You should be able to get one for about 20 bucks. Unless the
crank is already fooked it shouldn't come loose after that.

Mike

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Michael Dart <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a
> pill,
> > had a hot bath and climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a
> lot
> > better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7 miles to my g/f's house to
spend
> > the w/e.
> >
> > Set off, and no probs, hit the first bit of tarmac, and the nice people
> have
> > 'installed' some 1.5 - 2 metre long, but not very high, speed control
> ramps
> > all down the (steep) hill. Wooo-hooo! Well, this means I get to launch
off
> > them at 25 + mph, see if I can clean the distance. No probs, and I clean
a
> > couple.
> >
> > another 3 miles-ish down the road, and notice my r/h crank arm is loose, very clunky loose.
> > ****! - I still got about 3 1/2 miles to go, and
don't
> > have the big allen key in my tool pack. Tried to tighten the best I
could,
> > then ride with a dominant left leg (taking it easy).
> >
> > Got there eventually, but the crank is all loose again, I figured it
would
> > be toast, or at least need the old clean up and beer can shim-job. Got a lift home with the bike
> > Sunday, got the allen key out, cranked real hard
> on
> > it (stood and bounced on the bugger), re-adjusted the mech. (yup - still
> in
> > the range it can cover), and took a quick ride up to the shop. So far so good. On the way back
> > down, I did a couple of drops (one that's a couple
> of
> > feet with a bunny hop immediately on landing to clear a ledge),
generally
> > bounced on the pedals etc. - still OK.
> >
> > Same thing on the way to work this morning.
> >
> > So far, it looks like I may have got away with it - I feckin' hope so.
> >
> > These cranks have been on for some time, were well tightened when first installed (and
> > subsequently), and I don't understand why it should ave
> come
> > loose when it did. They've taken much more punishment than this
> before.....
> >
> >
> > Oh well........
> >
> > Shaun aRe - Just felt like posting on topic, because apparently, I never
> > do..... ',;~}
> >
> >
> >
>
> If you want to get technical about it you could invest in a 'beam' type torque wrench and torque
> that bolt to about 55 newton meters.

Cheers MD - We have one kicking about already....

> (about 35-40 foot/pounds) Which is a heck of a lot more force that I could put on it
with
> a hex key.

You'd be surprised - long arm hex, booted foot putting 160 lb on it, then add the force of bouncing
up and down (rinse and repeat) - it should be OK ',;~}

> You should be able to get one for about 20 bucks. Unless the crank is already fooked it shouldn't
> come loose after that.

When I've done the above before, I've never had one come loose - I tend to over tighten if anything
(put a g/f's wheel back on, using the short brace the car came with, and it took them half an hour
with the air thingy at the garage to get it off again, and the guys were cursing me all the way). If
it is fooked (like the old set the same), I'm sure I can file/clean the tapers and shim (must be
beer can - soda can just doesn't cut it.....) successfully, again, like I did with the old set I put
on the SS.

I guess I'm just bugged that I can't see how/why it came loose, that the bike hasn't had any
trouble for so long, I just recently lightened the tool kit I carry in my pack, and that it
happened mid journey.

Shaun aRe frequently used to strip bolts the same size with shorter hex keys (scaffolding pipe makes
a handly extension, but can be overkill......heh....).

 

[Michael Dart]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You'd be surprised - long arm hex, booted foot putting 160 lb on it, then add the force of
> bouncing up and down (rinse and repeat) - it should be OK ',;~}

<Cringe> Yeah that'd to it. By my calcs that's about 80-90ft/lbs (given a 7in hex), about twice as
much as you need.

> I guess I'm just bugged that I can't see how/why it came loose, that the bike hasn't had any
> trouble for so long, I just recently lightened the
tool
> kit I carry in my pack, and that it happened mid journey.

I think you just answered your own question. You "just recently lightened the tool kit".
Murphy's law.

>
> Shaun aRe frequently used to strip bolts the same size with shorter hex
keys
> (scaffolding pipe makes a handly extension, but can be overkill......heh....).
>

Yes, more isn't always better. ;^)

Cheers, Mike

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Michael Dart <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > You'd be surprised - long arm hex, booted foot putting 160 lb on it,
then
> > add the force of bouncing up and down (rinse and repeat) - it should be
OK
> > ',;~}
>
> <Cringe> Yeah that'd to it. By my calcs that's about 80-90ft/lbs (given a 7in hex), about twice as
> much as you need.

I like my parts to be as comfortable as my guests, so I make sure they are well seated.....

(I'd have put less force on for a normal primary instalation, but these had probably chewed a bit -
figure it'd help settle them a bit...)..

> > I guess I'm just bugged that I can't see how/why it came loose, that the bike hasn't had any
> > trouble for so long, I just recently lightened the
> tool
> > kit I carry in my pack, and that it happened mid journey.
>
> I think you just answered your own question. You "just recently lightened the tool kit".
> Murphy's law.

Yeah - it sucks, even more than carrying 7 or so pounds of tools and spares........

> > Shaun aRe frequently used to strip bolts the same size with shorter hex
> keys
> > (scaffolding pipe makes a handly extension, but can be overkill......heh....).
> >
>
> Yes, more isn't always better. ;^)

Well, the general rule I follow is: more bad stuff = badder, more good stuff up to the naturally
existing maximum limit (where aplicable) = gooder.

Shaun aRe - it's an exact science, like picking apples.

 

[Bill Wheeler]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:25:01 -0000, "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a pill, had a hot bath and
>climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a lot better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7
>miles to my g/f's house to spend the w/e.

Feck the crank arm...go see a doc. about the back pain. Taking meds just covers up the problem.

Peace, Bill The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind
should give an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
:-]

 

[Mark Hickey]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You'd be surprised - long arm hex, booted foot putting 160 lb on it, then add the force of bouncing
>up and down (rinse and repeat) - it should be OK ',;~}
>
>> You should be able to get one for about 20 bucks. Unless the crank is already fooked it shouldn't
>> come loose after that.
>
>When I've done the above before, I've never had one come loose - I tend to over tighten if anything
>(put a g/f's wheel back on, using the short brace the car came with, and it took them half an hour
>with the air thingy at the garage to get it off again, and the guys were cursing me all the way).
>If it is fooked (like the old set the same), I'm sure I can file/clean the tapers and shim (must be
>beer can - soda can just doesn't cut it.....) successfully, again, like I did with the old set I
>put on the SS.
>
>I guess I'm just bugged that I can't see how/why it came loose, that the bike hasn't had any
>trouble for so long, I just recently lightened the tool kit I carry in my pack, and that it
>happened mid journey.

One of the things you'll notice if you get a torque wrench is that by the time you get to about
half the torque you need, you STILL have to rotate the bolt at least one full turn (very different
than a non-tapered application, where just a small fraction of a turn will require dramatically
more torque).

>Shaun aRe frequently used to strip bolts the same size with shorter hex keys (scaffolding pipe
>makes a handly extension, but can be overkill......heh....).

No thanks, I'll work on my own bike... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Lone Wolf]

my haro has a cracked crank arm... on the drive side... getting a new crank set and bottom bracket
for about $100 this weekend

 

[Bill Wheeler]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:40:05 -0800 (PST), [email protected] (lone wolf) wrote:

>my haro has a cracked crank arm... on the drive side... getting a new crank set and bottom bracket
>for about $100 this weekend

Put it on and ride Elle Dubya!

Peace, Bill The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind
should give an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
:-]

 

[Bomba]

Bill Wheeler wrote:

>>So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a pill, had a hot bath and
>>climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a lot better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7
>>miles to my g/f's house to spend the w/e.
>
>
> Feck the crank arm...go see a doc. about the back pain. Taking meds just covers up the problem.

Good point. If you're in the UK, these people are miracle workers: http://www.mctimoney.net/

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> >When I've done the above before, I've never had one come loose - I tend
to
> >over tighten if anything (put a g/f's wheel back on, using the short
brace
> >the car came with, and it took them half an hour with the air thingy at
the
> >garage to get it off again, and the guys were cursing me all the way). If
it
> >is fooked (like the old set the same), I'm sure I can file/clean the
tapers
> >and shim (must be beer can - soda can just doesn't cut it.....) successfully, again, like I did
> >with the old set I put on the SS.
> >
> >I guess I'm just bugged that I can't see how/why it came loose, that the bike hasn't had any
> >trouble for so long, I just recently lightened the
tool
> >kit I carry in my pack, and that it happened mid journey.
>
> One of the things you'll notice if you get a torque wrench is that by the time you get to about
> half the torque you need, you STILL have to rotate the bolt at least one full turn (very different
> than a non-tapered application, where just a small fraction of a turn will require dramatically
> more torque).

Already know this, firstly it's obvious to a practically minded person like me (truth!) just
thinking about it, and can be confirmed just by 'feel' when doing the task to anyone who has any
nerves left ',;~}

> >Shaun aRe frequently used to strip bolts the same size with shorter hex
keys
> >(scaffolding pipe makes a handly extension, but can be overkill......heh....).
>
> No thanks, I'll work on my own bike... ;-)

I don't strip threads on bike bolts, unless they are **** bike bolts - I usually check any new bolts
on bikes/bike parts for toughness when I get them, and replace them with a good grade stainless from
the local fastener specialists a.s.a.p, if they are weak/mild steel etc.

I am a good mechanic - ask anyone who I've done any work for, but tell me before you ask so I have
time to buy them beer.

Shaun aRe

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Bill Wheeler <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:25:01 -0000, "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a
pill,
> >had a hot bath and climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a
lot
> >better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7 miles to my g/f's house to
spend
> >the w/e.
>
> Feck the crank arm...go see a doc. about the back pain.

If it persists now that I'm off the SS icebike, I will, but I think that bike was the cause, and
once it'd started, lesser strains caused the problem to re-surface.

> Taking meds just covers up the problem.

I'm not taking analgesics of any kind, I'm taking (occasionally) Diclofenac, an NSAID. NSAID's help
reduce the inflammation, and can speed actual recovery, rather than masking the problem.

Thanks for the concern though Bill - appreciated.

Shaun aRe

 

[Michael Dart]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I don't strip threads on bike bolts, unless they are **** bike bolts - I usually check any new
> bolts on bikes/bike parts for toughness when I get them, and replace them with a good grade
> stainless from the local fastener specialists a.s.a.p, if they are weak/mild steel etc.
>

I don't strip the threads on bolts either, it's the soft aluminium they are in that strips. ;^)

> I am a good mechanic - ask anyone who I've done any work for, but tell me before you ask so I have
> time to buy them beer.
>

Shaun is a good mechanic.

Mike - Cheers! ;^)

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Michael Dart <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > I don't strip threads on bike bolts, unless they are **** bike bolts - I usually check any new
> > bolts on bikes/bike parts for toughness when I get them, and replace them with a good grade
> > stainless from the local
fastener
> > specialists a.s.a.p, if they are weak/mild steel etc.
> >
>
> I don't strip the threads on bolts either, it's the soft aluminium they
are
> in that strips. ;^)

Aye - some stuff I just drill out and put a steel nut in instead - I ****ing _hate_ aluminium
threads unless there is a decent length to them. Should all be helicoiled anyhow......

> > I am a good mechanic - ask anyone who I've done any work for, but tell
me
> > before you ask so I have time to buy them beer.
> >
>
> Shaun is a good mechanic.
>
> Mike - Cheers! ;^)

Have a pint of Hopback Summer Lightning on me MD!

',;~}

Shaun aRe - After just one month in the training garage, I was put on duty teaching the other
trainees, 'cos I'm smart me.

 

[Supabonbon]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Bill Wheeler <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:25:01 -0000, "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >So, I left work early on Friday with bad back pain, went home, took a
> pill,
> > >had a hot bath and climbed into bed. After about 3 hours, I'm feeling a
> lot
> > >better, and I'm now up to pedalling the 7 miles to my g/f's house to
> spend
> > >the w/e.
> >
> > Feck the crank arm...go see a doc. about the back pain.
>
> If it persists now that I'm off the SS icebike, I will, but I think that bike was the cause, and
> once it'd started, lesser strains caused the problem to re-surface.
>
> > Taking meds just covers up the problem.
>
> I'm not taking analgesics of any kind, I'm taking (occasionally) Diclofenac, an NSAID. NSAID's
> help reduce the inflammation, and can speed actual recovery, rather than masking the problem.
>
> Thanks for the concern though Bill - appreciated.
>
>
> Shaun aRe

First the disclaimer: I'm not a trained physician. I'm not really a trained anything. And, from
previous experiences, I think chiros are bunk. Now the opinion: meds are good. Anything that gets
you upright and mobile without hunching over is good for your healing. And the 'solution': For my
lower back, the best thing I've found (other than yoga, situps, weights, etc) is simply hanging from
a bar for a little while. Take 20 or so seconds to relax your breathing and then start easy twists,
swinging your feet back and forth in a gentle circular motion. The motion should originate in your
hips, and can run up and through your shoulders. Don't try anything jarring, the key is relaxation,
letting your muscles elongate. Solution II: if that doesn't work, a good massage is a wonderful
thing as well. I'm not convinced that a good massage therapist knows any less about anatomy than
your average chiro, and their methods seem a lot less severe. Solution III: I once had accupressure
performed. It helped greatly for around 10 minutes. To be fair, this was when my back was really
fugged up, more than some nerve manipulation could fix. And the chiro's 'work' lasted for maybe half
that time. /s

 

[Bomba]

supabonbon wrote:

> First the disclaimer: I'm not a trained physician. I'm not really a trained anything. And, from
> previous experiences, I think chiros are bunk. Now the opinion: meds are good. Anything that gets
> you upright and mobile without hunching over is good for your healing. And the 'solution': For my
> lower back, the best thing I've found (other than yoga, situps, weights, etc) is simply hanging
> from a bar for a little while. Take 20 or so seconds to relax your breathing and then start easy
> twists, swinging your feet back and forth in a gentle circular motion. The motion should originate
> in your hips, and can run up and through your shoulders. Don't try anything jarring, the key is
> relaxation, letting your muscles elongate. Solution II: if that doesn't work, a good massage is a
> wonderful thing as well. I'm not convinced that a good massage therapist knows any less about
> anatomy than your average chiro, and their methods seem a lot less severe. Solution III: I once
> had accupressure performed. It helped greatly for around 10 minutes. To be fair, this was when my
> back was really fugged up, more than some nerve manipulation could fix. And the chiro's 'work'
> lasted for maybe half that time.

I've had similar experiences with traditional chiros, but had fantastic results with a group I've
mentioned elsewhere in the thread. It's a sort of combination of chiro and massage that involves
gentle manipulation of the back (and other parts of the body). Within two sessions I was right as
rain, which, considering the damage I'd done to myself, was rather impressive.

 

[Gopherhockey]

Sorry, just a test. Apologize for the intrusion.

--
gopherhockey

*saturday, april 6, 2002*;- xcel energy center (att: 19,324)- 1st per: ballard 10 (riddle, angell),
7:18 (pp); 2nd per: pohl 27 (anthony, angell), 5:38; 3rd per: koalska 10 (riddle, pohl), 19:07; ot:
potulny 15 (pohl, leopold), 16:58 (pp)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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thread: http://www.mtbmndev.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=583

 

[Gabrielle]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:17:22 -0800, Bill Wheeler wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:40:05 -0800 (PST), [email protected] (lone wolf) wrote:
>
>>my haro has a cracked crank arm... on the drive side... getting a new crank set and bottom bracket
>>for about $100 this weekend
>
> Put it on and ride Elle Dubya!

Reminds me of a guy I overheard in the LBS last week. Something like "This new-fangled equipment is
for you pretty boys. It takes a real biker to hang in and ride the old broken-down equipment."

hee hee

gabrielle

 

[Bill Wheeler]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:45:40 -0800, gabrielle <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:17:22 -0800, Bill Wheeler wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:40:05 -0800 (PST), [email protected] (lone wolf) wrote:
>>
>>>my haro has a cracked crank arm... on the drive side... getting a new crank set and bottom
>>>bracket for about $100 this weekend
>>
>> Put it on and ride Elle Dubya!
>
>Reminds me of a guy I overheard in the LBS last week. Something like "This new-fangled equipment is
>for you pretty boys. It takes a real biker to hang in and ride the old broken-down equipment."
>
>hee hee
>
>gabrielle
D'oh!

bill

The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind should give
an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
:-]

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

supabonbon <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> > I'm not taking analgesics of any kind, I'm taking (occasionally)
Diclofenac,
> > an NSAID. NSAID's help reduce the inflammation, and can speed actual recovery, rather than
> > masking the problem.
> >
> > Thanks for the concern though Bill - appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Shaun aRe
>
> First the disclaimer: I'm not a trained physician. I'm not really a trained anything. And, from
> previous experiences, I think chiros are bunk. Now the opinion: meds are good. Anything that gets
> you upright and mobile without hunching over is good for your healing.

To a large extent, I agree here, and that is the traditional view of doctors also.

> And the 'solution': For my lower back, the best thing I've found (other than yoga, situps,
> weights, etc) is simply hanging from a bar for a little while. Take 20 or so seconds to relax your
> breathing and then start easy twists, swinging your feet back and forth in a gentle circular
> motion. The motion should originate in your hips, and can run up and through your shoulders. Don't
> try anything jarring, the key is relaxation, letting your muscles elongate.

This I know, and I would do, but I have nowhere with a bar ATM. I have however, used a curved padded
surface (couche arm, over the edge of the bed etc.) to help stretch the back a little - the problem
does appear to be caused by compression.

> Solution II: if that doesn't work, a good massage is a wonderful thing as well. I'm not convinced
> that a good massage therapist knows any less about anatomy than your average chiro, and their
> methods seem a lot less severe.

Heh - my girl freind is a fully qualified massge therapist - Swedish massage, reflexology,
aromatherapy - the works, so I've been getting the, errmmm, 'full treatment'....heh! (I'm one lucky
******* eh?). ',;~}

> Solution III: I once had accupressure performed. It helped greatly for around 10 minutes. To be
> fair, this was when my back was really fugged up, more than some nerve manipulation could fix. And
> the chiro's 'work' lasted for maybe half that time.

I'd say bad chiro then - my mum had been troubled by severe back problems for years on end, and
could be crippled for weeks by it sometimes. Her doc just gave her painkillers and advised rest.
Never got any better over time, so she went to a recommended chiro.

1st visit, no probls for 3 months, 2nd visit, 6 months, 3rd visit 2 years, 4th visit, she's never
been back. Although she still occasionally has back problems, they are never as severe as before,
and never last for very long.

Cheers!

Shaun aRe - mine is getting much better already.