Dancing with trucks

[Zebee Johnstone]

Given Leszek Wereszka's sad death... How should cyclists deal with
trucks?

We don't know what happened, so can't say anything about that crash,
but we can talk about general cases.

I don't ride on high speed or main truck-infested roads, so don't have
much experience with them.

The only thing I do know - via a friend's misfortune - is "don't go up
the left of a truck stopped in the left hand lane at the lights even
if it isn't signalling to go left because it might go left anyway and
squash you, and the truckie will swear blind the indicator was on."


Zebee

 

[MikeyOz]

"don't go up
the left of a truck stopped in the left hand lane at the lights even
if it isn't signalling to go left because it might go left anyway and
squash you, and the truckie will swear blind the indicator was on."

I apply this to anything I ride up on the left of and always move up to and ahead of the vehicle, so that they can physically see me, car, van, truck ... anything.

 

[cfsmtb]

I apply this to anything I ride up on the left of and always move up to and ahead of the vehicle, so that they can physically see me, car, van, truck ... anything.

Very similar to tips I was given by several truck drivers back when commuting down to Webb Dock, ie: keep a predictable line, stay visible and please don't ride on a major road if you're not sure of the conditions. That last point may sound a tad condescending but that was from a longhaul truckie who's advice I respected.

Another piece of advice was to have reflective clothing/material and also lights, lights and lights (did we say lights?), especially a red one on the helmet as most rear lights tend to get foreshortened and the driver can't see them.

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:05:31 +1000
MikeyOz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>> "don't go up
>> the left of a truck stopped in the left hand lane at the lights even
>> if it isn't signalling to go left because it might go left anyway and
>> squash you, and the truckie will swear blind the indicator was on."
>>
>
> I apply this to anything I ride up on the left of and always move up to
> and ahead of the vehicle, so that they can physically see me, car, van,
> truck ... anything.

The problem with a big truck is that it takes time to pass.

My friend was hit on his way past, as the lights changed and the truck
moved before he could get to the front.

So unless you are dead sure you can get all the way there, or you have
no kerbing and you are sure you can get sideways rapidly, don't go up
the inside of a truck at the lights.

Zebee

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:04:29 +1000
cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Another piece of advice was to have reflective clothing/material and
> also lights, lights and lights (did we say lights?), especially a red
> one on the helmet as most rear lights tend to get foreshortened and the
> driver can't see them.

Yeah - angle of view. The rear flasher on the bent is dodgy that way,
it's fine for cars but not for trucks (or tall wedgie riders
apparently). I need to find a light I can put on my helmet that's large
enough to be useful but light enough that it doesn't drag the helmet
down to interfere with the headrest.

Maybe a few of those single LED things might do it.

Reflective stuff is majorly effective as a truck's lights are usually
good. Tape on the helmet is a good idea.

Zebee

 

[EuanB]

Given Leszek Wereszka's sad death... How should cyclists deal with
trucks?

Not much more to add other than ride 0.5M ~ 1.0M from the kerb / parked cars.

 

[Bleve]

On Aug 20, 10:23 am, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:04:29 +1000
>
> cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Another piece of advice was to have reflective clothing/material and
> > also lights, lights and lights (did we say lights?), especially a red
> > one on the helmet as most rear lights tend to get foreshortened and the
> > driver can't see them.
>
> Yeah - angle of view. The rear flasher on the bent is dodgy that way,
> it's fine for cars but not for trucks (or tall wedgie riders
> apparently). I need to find a light I can put on my helmet that's large
> enough to be useful but light enough that it doesn't drag the helmet
> down to interfere with the headrest.
>
> Maybe a few of those single LED things might do it.
>

I have a single red LED light in the back of my helmet. Works a
charm, weighs nothing.

 

[Theo Bekkers]

EuanB wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:

>> Given Leszek Wereszka's sad death... How should cyclists deal with
>> trucks?

> Not much more to add other than ride 0.5M ~ 1.0M from the kerb /
> parked cars.

There are no kerbs on the Port Wakefield road where Leszek died. For 100 kms
out of Adelaide, which is where Pt Wakefield is, the road is a divided,
limited access road with two 3.5 metre lanes in each direction seperated by
at least ten metres. The speed limit is 110 and there is a 2 metre sealed
shoulder. It bypasses four or five little townships on the way that used to
be on the main road. I always thought it a very safe road.

Theo

 

[AndrewJ]

On Aug 20, 12:27 pm, EuanB <EuanB.2vl...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:> Given Leszek Wereszka's sad death... How should cyclists deal with
> > trucks?
>
> Not much more to add other than ride 0.5M ~ 1.0M from the kerb / parked
> cars.
>
> --
> EuanB


Ever since one day outside Gympie that I had a dance with a whole
series of garbage trucks, I have changed which roads I ride on.

It was the end of a tough day, and the garbage trucks were going past
me. They were getting closer and closer. They were seeing who could
get the closest to me without actually touching. If they were lucky
they might actually bounce me off.

The next day I decided to ride off the highway. Much more enjoyable.
You need to be more self-sufficient, but not so many trucks.

99.9% of truck drivers are true professionals. They will toot if they
need the room, and the smart thing to do is to get off the road real
quick. Unfortunately in these matters it only takes one mistake from
you, or one idiot driver and it's all over.

I thought to myself: what riding do I enjoy? The riding with minimal
traffic. So that is where I prefer to ride.

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:28:19 -0700
Bleve <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I have a single red LED light in the back of my helmet. Works a
> charm, weighs nothing.
>

How do you know it works? Obviously it shines a little red light, but
is that little red light enough to be noticed by someone who isn't
concentrating or already aware of you?

Zebee

 

[TimC]

On 2007-08-20, AndrewJ (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> 99.9% of truck drivers are true professionals. They will toot if they
> need the room, and the smart thing to do is to get off the road real
> quick. Unfortunately in these matters it only takes one mistake from
> you, or one idiot driver and it's all over.
>
> I thought to myself: what riding do I enjoy? The riding with minimal
> traffic. So that is where I prefer to ride.

I have a different philosophy. The riding I most enjoy is when I
leave behind a parted stream of smoking ruins

Spike, you are my hero.

--
TimC
Did you know that in German, Usenet bulletin boards are called
Gruppenareabrettecholistennetzs? - James "Kibo" Parry

 

[treadly&me]

Good topic Zebee, thanks.

There are no kerbs on the Port Wakefield road where Leszek died. For 100 kms
out of Adelaide, which is where Pt Wakefield is, the road is a divided,
limited access road with two 3.5 metre lanes in each direction seperated by
at least ten metres. The speed limit is 110 and there is a 2 metre sealed
shoulder. It bypasses four or five little townships on the way that used to
be on the main road. I always thought it a very safe road.

Theo

It probably is a relatively safe road--it certainly sounds like it--but that doesn't mean nothing bad is ever going to happen there.

On the other hand, all of that "space" can lull drivers into a false sense of security. Anyone care to hypothesise as to whether drivers are more cautious and alert when driving conditions are less favourable?

 

[Dorfus Dippintush]

treadly&me wrote:
> Good topic Zebee, thanks.
>
> Theo Bekkers Wrote:
>> There are no kerbs on the Port Wakefield road where Leszek died. For
>> 100 kms
>> out of Adelaide, which is where Pt Wakefield is, the road is a
>> divided,
>> limited access road with two 3.5 metre lanes in each direction
>> seperated by
>> at least ten metres. The speed limit is 110 and there is a 2 metre
>> sealed
>> shoulder. It bypasses four or five little townships on the way that
>> used to
>> be on the main road. I always thought it a very safe road.
>>
>> Theo
>
> It probably is a relatively safe road--it certainly sounds like it--but
> that doesn't mean nothing bad is ever going to happen there.
>
> On the other hand, all of that "space" can lull drivers into a false
> sense of security. Anyone care to hypothesise as to whether drivers are
> more cautious and alert when driving conditions are less favourable?
>
>

After that accident a few months ago where a truck slammed into the side
of a train I now believe that truck drivers drive around in automatic
mode and don't take any real notice of what's on the road. If they can
hit a train then they'll have no trouble running over a cyclist.

Dorfus

 

[Theo Bekkers]

Dorfus Dippintush wrote:

> After that accident a few months ago where a truck slammed into the
> side of a train I now believe that truck drivers drive around in
> automatic mode and don't take any real notice of what's on the road.
> If they can hit a train then they'll have no trouble running over a
> cyclist.

Agreed. WA railways just figured out last year that, once the engine has
passed the crossing at night in the country, the rest of the train is
invisible. They have now fitted reflectors to the sides of every goods
carriage.

Theo

 

[Theo Bekkers]

me wrote:

> It probably is a relatively safe road--it certainly sounds like
> it--but that doesn't mean nothing bad is ever going to happen there.

Agreed.

> On the other hand, all of that "space" can lull drivers into a false
> sense of security. Anyone care to hypothesise as to whether drivers
> are more cautious and alert when driving conditions are less
> favourable?

I can assure you that reaction times relax greatly between "heavy traffic in
the city" and "one oncoming vehicle every five minutes and straight roads".

Theo

 

[Michael Warner]

On 19 Aug 2007 22:46:05 GMT, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> Given Leszek Wereszka's sad death... How should cyclists deal with
> trucks?
>
> We don't know what happened, so can't say anything about that crash,
> but we can talk about general cases.
>
> I don't ride on high speed or main truck-infested roads, so don't have
> much experience with them.

There are some sections of some main roads which I avoid because the lanes
are narrow and they're popular with trucks - it's a dangerous combination.
For anyone in Adelaide, I'm thinking primarily of the northern part of
South Road and Brighton Road near the Bay.

 

[barry taylor]

"Michael Warner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: On 19 Aug 2007 22:46:05 GMT, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
:
: > Given Leszek Wereszka's sad death... How should cyclists deal with
: > trucks?
: >
: > We don't know what happened, so can't say anything about that crash,
: > but we can talk about general cases.
: >
: > I don't ride on high speed or main truck-infested roads, so don't have
: > much experience with them.
:
: There are some sections of some main roads which I avoid because the lanes
: are narrow and they're popular with trucks - it's a dangerous combination.
: For anyone in Adelaide, I'm thinking primarily of the northern part of
: South Road and Brighton Road near the Bay.

pretty well any section of South Road is cycle unfriendly
Brighton Road near Glenelg is part of one of my circuits
I tend to use the footpath between Anzac Highway and the tram crossing


--
-----

barry j taylor < [email protected] >
Ulysses #25871: netrider 549
Skype: ursus_australis
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~~ (*)/ (*) . . . bus chasing bear

 

[Andrew Priest]

On 20 Aug 2007 00:20:36 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:


>
>My friend was hit on his way past, as the lights changed and the truck
>moved before he could get to the front.
>
>So unless you are dead sure you can get all the way there, or you have
>no kerbing and you are sure you can get sideways rapidly, don't go up
>the inside of a truck at the lights.

Isn't it against the law to pass on the left, I mean in the same lane
which I assume is being referred to here?

Regards
Andrew
-----
Churchlands, Western Australia
Giant CRX 1; Giant Boulder SE
http://aushiker.com http://backpackgeartest.org http://geocaching.com.au

 

[EuanB]

On 20 Aug 2007 00:20:36 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:


>
>My friend was hit on his way past, as the lights changed and the truck
>moved before he could get to the front.
>
>So unless you are dead sure you can get all the way there, or you have
>no kerbing and you are sure you can get sideways rapidly, don't go up
>the inside of a truck at the lights.

Isn't it against the law to pass on the left, I mean in the same lane
which I assume is being referred to here?

No. From memory road rule 141 refers to something along the lines of ``(Except for a bicycle) overtaking on the left in a marked lane is illegal.

It's one of those rules that most road users are ignorant of. Rule 151 is another which spells out that you can ride two abreast in a traffic lane and a third can overtake the 2.

 

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-08-20, Andrew Priest <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2007 00:20:36 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>My friend was hit on his way past, as the lights changed and the truck
>>moved before he could get to the front.
>>
>>So unless you are dead sure you can get all the way there, or you have
>>no kerbing and you are sure you can get sideways rapidly, don't go up
>>the inside of a truck at the lights.
>
> Isn't it against the law to pass on the left, I mean in the same lane
> which I assume is being referred to here?

If you're on a bike it's legal unless the vehicle is indicating a left
turn. (and moving, I think, I could be wrong on this part).

Cheers

Joel

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