dangers of 'traffic calming'

[wafflycat]

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/cont...gory=news&itemid=NOED11 Jun 2007 08:42:46:380


or

http://tinyurl.com/3bkmpy

"Traffic calming made our street more dangerous"

includes:-

"Since the money - £28,000 according to Norfolk County Council - was spent
last year at The Street, Costessey, there have been several crashes and
Andrew Brown believes it is now more dangerous for drivers, cyclists,
pedestrians.

Mr Brown, 60, a retired company director from The Glade, Old Costessey, said
he had seen a string of accidents at new 'pinch-points' and said there was
no longer room for a car to safely pass a cyclist, pedestrian or horse. He
said: “Recently a speeding car misjudged the space available and, to avoid a
collision with me and my dogs, hit the nearside kerb of the pinch-point
losing control of his vehicle.

“This pinch-point is on a blind bend down a significant hill with no warning
of its approach and on a wet or icy day is extremely dangerous.

“For a pedestrian walking along The Street it is necessary to cross the road
many times to take advantage of the footpath at the pinch-points which are
on alternate sides of the road.

“I believe the money spent on these 'improvements' has, in fact, resulted in
the road becoming more dangerous.”

Concerns about the traffic improvements have also been raised by other
neighbours, Costessey Parish Council clerk Rachel Jackson said."

 

[Squashme]

On 11 Jun, 20:45, "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
> http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline...
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3bkmpy
>
> "Traffic calming made our street more dangerous"
>
> includes:-
>
> "Since the money - £28,000 according to Norfolk County Council - was spent
> last year at The Street, Costessey, there have been several crashes and
> Andrew Brown believes it is now more dangerous for drivers, cyclists,
> pedestrians.
>
> Mr Brown, 60, a retired company director from The Glade, Old Costessey, said
> he had seen a string of accidents at new 'pinch-points' and said there was
> no longer room for a car to safely pass a cyclist, pedestrian or horse. He
> said: "Recently a speeding car misjudged the space available and, to avoid a
> collision with me and my dogs, hit the nearside kerb of the pinch-point
> losing control of his vehicle.
>
> "This pinch-point is on a blind bend down a significant hill with no warning
> of its approach and on a wet or icy day is extremely dangerous.
>
> "For a pedestrian walking along The Street it is necessary to cross the road
> many times to take advantage of the footpath at the pinch-points which are
> on alternate sides of the road.
>
> "I believe the money spent on these 'improvements' has, in fact, resultedin
> the road becoming more dangerous."
>
> Concerns about the traffic improvements have also been raised by other
> neighbours, Costessey Parish Council clerk Rachel Jackson said."


Hang on:- "Mr Brown, 60, a retired company director from The Glade,
Old Costessey, said
.... "Recently a speeding car misjudged the space available and, to
avoid a collision with me and my dogs, hit the nearside kerb of the
pinch-point losing control of his vehicle."

"County council spokeswoman Mel Dye said:
"What is needed to help safety is for traffic to slow down and adhere
to the 20mph limit ..."

Yeahh, must be the fault of the traffic calming scheme - and the
bloody dogs.

 

[John Hearns]

If this scheme has been implemented at the cost of switching the
pavement from side to side it is stupid.

But "said there was no longer room for a car to safely pass a cyclist,
pedestrian or horse."
Well.... duhh..... its a pinch point.
But Mr Toad is obviously alive and well here.

 

[TerryJ]

> Well.... duhh..... its a pinch point.
> But Mr Toad is obviously alive and well here.
Yes.
Pinch points are scary for non motorists.I know it's because some
motorists are incompetent or sociopathic but I do not like the extra
risk personally.

We have one on a long uphill that even I have difficulty going through
at much more than 10mph.It's a 40mph zone, so some cars are coming up
behind at 50.And we all know that a large enough percentage of them
try to squeeze through just before I get there.After all, it's not the
driver that will be killed if he gets it wrong.

TerryJ

 

[Bad Shorts]

wafflycat wrote:

>
> "Traffic calming made our street more dangerous"
>
> includes:-
>
> He said: “Recently a speeding car misjudged the space
> available

OK, so the car misjudged and not the driver. Let's blame the car and not
the road user.

>
> “I believe the money spent on these 'improvements' has, in fact,
> resulted in the road becoming more dangerous.”

Yes, these dangerous roads are such a menace. Blame them and not the
road user.

 

[POHB]

On 11 Jun, 22:15, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> Pinch points are scary for non motorists.I know it's because some
> motorists are incompetent or sociopathic but I do not like the extra
> risk personally.

Why don't they make them all with those little lanes up the side that
let bikes etc avoid getting pinched?

 

[naked_draughtsman]

"POHB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 11 Jun, 22:15, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Pinch points are scary for non motorists.I know it's because some
>> motorists are incompetent or sociopathic but I do not like the extra
>> risk personally.
>
> Why don't they make them all with those little lanes up the side that
> let bikes etc avoid getting pinched?

Because cars will park along the side of the road and block it up, impeding
the visibility for cyclists as well as forcing them to go through the pinch
point.
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

 

[naked_draughtsman]

How about instead of pinch points they install rising bollards which only go
down when you're quite close so if you're doing 20mph you won't have to slow
down for it but if you're doing 40 you'll have to brake hard while it goes
down?

I know someone's invented a deflating speed hump which deflates if you go
over it at low speed but if you're going fast the rapid expulsion of air
seals it so you have a nasty big bump to go over. It's not very cycle
friendly though unless they leave a gap at either side whereas with a
bollard there should be plenty of space for a bike to nip through.
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

 

[Roger Merriman]

naked_draughtsman <[email protected]> wrote:

> "POHB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 11 Jun, 22:15, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Pinch points are scary for non motorists.I know it's because some
> >> motorists are incompetent or sociopathic but I do not like the extra
> >> risk personally.
> >
> > Why don't they make them all with those little lanes up the side that
> > let bikes etc avoid getting pinched?
>
> Because cars will park along the side of the road and block it up, impeding
> the visibility for cyclists as well as forcing them to go through the pinch
> point.

depends on the area, the onces in llanfoist as far as memory recalls
don't have cars parked blocking the way.

roger

 

[Roger Merriman]

wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:

>
<http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&c
a
tegory=News&tBrand=enonline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED11%20Jun%202007%20
08%3A42%3A46%3A380>
>
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3bkmpy
>
> "Traffic calming made our street more dangerous"
>
> includes:-
>
> "Since the money - £28,000 according to Norfolk County Council - was spent
> last year at The Street, Costessey, there have been several crashes and
> Andrew Brown believes it is now more dangerous for drivers, cyclists,
> pedestrians.
>
> Mr Brown, 60, a retired company director from The Glade, Old Costessey, said
> he had seen a string of accidents at new 'pinch-points' and said there was
> no longer room for a car to safely pass a cyclist, pedestrian or horse. He
> said: "Recently a speeding car misjudged the space available and, to avoid a
> collision with me and my dogs, hit the nearside kerb of the pinch-point
> losing control of his vehicle.
>
> "This pinch-point is on a blind bend down a significant hill with no warning
> of its approach and on a wet or icy day is extremely dangerous.
>
> "For a pedestrian walking along The Street it is necessary to cross the road
> many times to take advantage of the footpath at the pinch-points which are
> on alternate sides of the road.
>
if true that does sound like a rather poor idea, to put it mildly.

> "I believe the money spent on these 'improvements' has, in fact, resulted in
> the road becoming more dangerous."
>
> Concerns about the traffic improvements have also been raised by other
> neighbours, Costessey Parish Council clerk Rachel Jackson said."

the main problem with all of these things is not them per say but where
and how they are placed.

roger

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, wafflycat
('w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com') wrote:

>
http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/cont...gory=news&itemid=NOED11 Jun 2007 08:42:46:380
>
> "Traffic calming made our street more dangerous"

Frankly, 'he would say that, wouldn't he'.

> includes:-
>
> "Since the money - £28,000 according to Norfolk County Council - was
> spent last year at The Street, Costessey, there have been several crashes
> and Andrew Brown believes it is now more dangerous for drivers, cyclists,
> pedestrians.
>
> Mr Brown, 60, a retired company director from The Glade, Old Costessey,
> said he had seen a string of accidents at new 'pinch-points' and said
> there was no longer room for a car to safely pass a cyclist, pedestrian
> or horse.

That is, after all, why they're there.

> He said: “Recently a speeding car misjudged the space available
> and, to avoid a collision with me and my dogs, hit the nearside kerb of
> the pinch-point losing control of his vehicle.
>
> “This pinch-point is on a blind bend down a significant hill with no
> warning of its approach and on a wet or icy day is extremely dangerous.
>
> “For a pedestrian walking along The Street it is necessary to cross the
> road many times to take advantage of the footpath at the pinch-points
> which are on alternate sides of the road.
>
> “I believe the money spent on these 'improvements' has, in fact, resulted
> in the road becoming more dangerous.”

I actually agree with him - it does make the road 'more dangerous', so
drivers have a choice of either slowing down or bending their nice shiny
metal. Drivers don't like bending their nice shiny metal, and there's
nothing else which will make them slow down. They won't obey signs unless
there's a camera present. They will obey chicanes with concrete bollards.
Hooray for chicanes with concrete bollards, say I.

Best of all:

| . |
| .MO7S|
| . |
+\ |
|o\ |
| \ |
| o |
| / /+
|o/ /o|
+/ / |
| o |
| \ |
| \o|
| \+
| . |
|SLOW. |
| . |

Where each 'o' represents a nice solid 'hit this and die' concrete bollard.
Each end of the village/zone, and each end priority is for vehicles
leaving the zone. Any vehicle, including an HGV, can negotiate it safely
at low speed. No vehicle - except motorcycles - can negotiate it safely at
high speed, and the penalty for getting it wrong is at minimum a written
off car.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, naked_draughtsman
('[email protected]') wrote:

>
> "POHB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 11 Jun, 22:15, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Pinch points are scary for non motorists.I know it's because some
>>> motorists are incompetent or sociopathic but I do not like the extra
>>> risk personally.
>>
>> Why don't they make them all with those little lanes up the side that
>> let bikes etc avoid getting pinched?
>
> Because cars will park along the side of the road and block it up,
> impeding the visibility for cyclists as well as forcing them to go
> through the pinch point.

That's easy, impound all cars found parked where they shouldn't be. Self
financing - if the owner doesn't pay the pound fee in a reasonable time,
sell the car.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

-- mens vacua in medio vacuo --

 

[Adrian Boliston]

"Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Best of all:
>
> | . |
> | .MO7S|
> | . |
> +\ |
> |o\ |
> | \ |
> | o |
> | / /+
> |o/ /o|
> +/ / |
> | o |
> | \ |
> | \o|
> | \+
> | . |
> |SLOW. |
> | . |
>
> Where each 'o' represents a nice solid 'hit this and die' concrete
> bollard.
> Each end of the village/zone, and each end priority is for vehicles
> leaving the zone. Any vehicle, including an HGV, can negotiate it safely
> at low speed. No vehicle - except motorcycles - can negotiate it safely at
> high speed, and the penalty for getting it wrong is at minimum a written
> off car.

These "build outs" can still be quite dangerous for cyclists as oncoming
traffic often does not wish to give way to cyclists when they have the "big
arrow" priority sign in their favour.

 

[Neil Williams]

On Jun 12, 10:38 am, [email protected] (Roger Merriman) wrote:

> depends on the area, the onces in llanfoist as far as memory recalls
> don't have cars parked blocking the way.

If there were marked bays for parking only, and *these were enforced*
periodically, it wouldn't be a problem.

Having seen it in action, I'm starting to prefer the German approach
of no parking outside marked bays in residential areas.

Neil

 

[Neil Williams]

On Jun 12, 9:45 am, "naked_draughtsman" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> How about instead of pinch points they install rising bollards which only go
> down when you're quite close so if you're doing 20mph you won't have to slow
> down for it but if you're doing 40 you'll have to brake hard while it goes
> down?

And the first time it doesn't drop at 20mph due to a fault and someone
hits it, or worse it goes up with a car on it?

I hate the things in all their forms. Fixed features (but preferably
not ramps) and speed cameras are far preferable.

Neil

 

[Peter Clinch]

Adrian Boliston wrote:

> These "build outs" can still be quite dangerous for cyclists as oncoming
> traffic often does not wish to give way to cyclists when they have the "big
> arrow" priority sign in their favour.

But if the traffic will be going slowly, all the cyclist needs to do is
have the nerve to sit there and point a phone at the registration plate...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Roger Merriman]

Neil Williams <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jun 12, 10:38 am, [email protected] (Roger Merriman) wrote:
>
> > depends on the area, the onces in llanfoist as far as memory recalls
> > don't have cars parked blocking the way.
>
> If there were marked bays for parking only, and *these were enforced*
> periodically, it wouldn't be a problem.
>
the village isn't big. essently there is no reason to park nr the pinch
points. low population in those parts.

> Having seen it in action, I'm starting to prefer the German approach
> of no parking outside marked bays in residential areas.
>
> Neil

roger

 

[Peter Clinch]

Roger Merriman wrote:

> the village isn't big. essently there is no reason to park nr the pinch
> points. low population in those parts.

But... but... but that mean mean walking as much as an extra 30-40
meters! Are you *MAD*!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> That's easy, impound all cars found parked where they shouldn't be. Self
> financing - if the owner doesn't pay the pound fee in a reasonable time,
> sell the car.

More financially lucrative than crushing the car to a small cube and
selling it for scrap, but not quite as satisfying... ;-)

Cubing unlicensed cars seems to be getting done around the SE according
to my dad, so just move it up to parking. As with speeding, parking law
is routinely violated simply because it isn't perceived to matter. If
it's made to matter, it will mean something...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Tony Raven]

POHB wrote on 12/06/2007 08:29 +0100:
> On 11 Jun, 22:15, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Pinch points are scary for non motorists.I know it's because some
>> motorists are incompetent or sociopathic but I do not like the extra
>> risk personally.
>
> Why don't they make them all with those little lanes up the side that
> let bikes etc avoid getting pinched?
>

That would defeat the planners' objective of using cyclists to slow the
traffic ;-)

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell