Danish Counter-boycott



"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> I think it would be nice to stand up to religious bigotry. There
>> are any number of ways it can be done.
>
> The pocketbook method is often a good way. Boycotting or
> supporting a group or cause or business via the bottom line is
> often very, very effective...tyrants and despots know this and so
> do us informed consumers :)

The pocketbook approach works if you have leverage which you don't with
a lot of Muslim countries because you have alienated them. What are
you going to do? Tell them you won't buy things that you're already
not buying?

Desperate much?

--

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

Dom Helder Camara
 
Arri London wrote:
>
> Michel Boucher wrote:
>
>>[email protected] (Glitter Ninja) wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>>sf <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as
>>>>a terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I
>>>>think they are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of
>>>>Jews and Christians in their newspspers daily.
>>
>>But not caricatures of Moses or Jesus. They hold Moses and Jesus to be
>>Prophets equal to Muhammad, although they hold that Muhammad being the
>>most recent is the more accurate.
>
>
> YOu must never have lived in a Muslim neighbourhood. They do indeed
> caricature Moses and Jesus. And they do not consider Moses and Jesus as
> prophets equal to Muhammed.
>
>>>I just read a post on LiveJournal (I can link it if you want) by a
>>>gentleman who spent some years in the Middle East. He said that a
>>>Muslim traditionalist will say that other religions can take
>>>criticism because that religion is false.
>>
>>Not true. Islam recognizes Christianity and Judaism as divinely
>>revealed religions. However, they do believe that the revelations have
>>been corrupted and it is the corruption that they attack.
>
>
> Islam recognises Islam as being superior to Christianity and Judaism.
> Muslims believe that Jesus isn't God; that really is blasphemy to a
> Christian.
>


As I understand it, islam recognizes Christians and Jews as "People of
the Book", but they consider Christianity and Judaism as apostate
religions. That's why they hate Christians and Jews more than other
"infidel" religions.

I wonder what Mohammed would think of his followers making these
pictures into "graven images" -- the muslim leaders are worshiping
Mohammed over Allah by making such a fuss about the cartoons.

Perhaps most muslims are peaceful people who just wanna be left alone to
live their lives, but islam is not a peaceful religion. (Most muslims
are not islamist radicals.) Christianity went thru a phase like that
about 1000 years ago, but we pretty much grew out of it.

Best regards,
Bob
 
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 00:54:06 GMT, [email protected] (Curly
Sue) wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:33:10 -0500, Boron Elgar
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:28:50 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Glitter
>>Ninja) wrote:
>>
>>>Dave Smith <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>Curly Sue wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
>>>>> they were doing and where this would lead.
>>>
>>>>How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
>>>>of arson?
>>>
>>> Don't be disingenuous. The cartoons (there are 13 of them) are almost
>>>entirely negative and were the product of months of newspapers provoking
>>>and criticising the Muslims in their country. They did it to
>>>antagonize, end of story.
>>
>>********. Pure, unadulterated ********.
>>
>>The paper, with a circulation of about 150k, by the way, is a liberal
>>one.
>
>Specifically, liberal-independent-right-wing.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten

If so, I stand corrected. I am finding conflicting online reports on
its stance. That would make me suspicious of the paper to some extent,
but what evidence do you have that the commission of the cartoons was
of a deliberately provocative nature. Take a look around you on the
Internet, which reaches more than the circulation of 150 thousand as
the Denmark paper....do you REALLY think that these cartoons are of
some level of greater evil that what surrounds us daily?

And think...even if it *were* deliberately provocative, as KKK or
White supremacists marching in African American areas or neo-nazis
marching in Jewish areas, what justification is there from the kinds
of behavior seen in Syria, Gaza & Lebanon? Is this merited? Is this
not it its own way provocative in a very deliberate way?

I do not care how hateful the cartoons may be though of by some. Any
excuse is used by fundies on both sides of the aisle to control the
media. The fundie, right wing American Family Association just made
sure that a show (Book of Daniel) was pulled from the NBC lineup
though it's organized protestations. I do not like those fundies
trying to censor what I see, either. Do you want more examples of
religion getting it knickers in a knot and trying to control what they
do not like, even among those who do not belong to their religion?
Look at the BS about the term "Happy Holidays," just a month
ago....look at what has come up in discussions around here when people
have been accused of being bigoted for not taking someone else's
religious writing as the true word of their god.

snip
>These guys can blah-blah all they want about their high-minded ideals
>and who they didn't want to offend, but there's no doubt that they
>were looking for a rumble. So they got it.
>

I do not care what the newspaper published. I am a believer is freedom
of the expression, even if it is espouses opinions I find repulsive.
Once again, I offer the televised antics of Pat Robertson as a counter
example.

Riots and burning of embassies in reaction to these cartoons is
idiotic, bigoted and untenable by any account. What happened Denmark
was not incitement to riot, but the reaction to it has been insane
over-reaction by fundamentalist bigots.

Boron
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Christianity went thru a phase like that
> about 1000 years ago, but we pretty much grew out of it.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob
>
>

Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of humour
displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and probably a bit
more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.

Think of those retards blowing up abortion clinics and shooting doctors 'to
save lives'.

Too much Religion is bad for the soul. -P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
 
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>
>> Christianity went thru a phase like that about 1000 years ago, but
>> we pretty much grew out of it.
>>
>> Best regards, Bob
>>
>>
>
>
> Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of
> humour displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and
> probably a bit more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.

[snip]

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition...


Bob
 
the way i see it is that WE---U.S. and other
friendly nations---are CIVILIZED people
and the rioters/protestors aren't....and they
never will be.
maybe we should do the same to them. the
next time they insult us or kidnap innocent
people we should just let some heads roll.
 
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:09:09 -0500, Boron Elgar
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 00:54:06 GMT, [email protected] (Curly
>Sue) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:33:10 -0500, Boron Elgar
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:28:50 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Glitter
>>>Ninja) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dave Smith <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>Curly Sue wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
>>>>>> they were doing and where this would lead.
>>>>
>>>>>How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
>>>>>of arson?
>>>>
>>>> Don't be disingenuous. The cartoons (there are 13 of them) are almost
>>>>entirely negative and were the product of months of newspapers provoking
>>>>and criticising the Muslims in their country. They did it to
>>>>antagonize, end of story.
>>>
>>>********. Pure, unadulterated ********.
>>>
>>>The paper, with a circulation of about 150k, by the way, is a liberal
>>>one.
>>
>>Specifically, liberal-independent-right-wing.
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten
>
>If so, I stand corrected. I am finding conflicting online reports on
>its stance. That would make me suspicious of the paper to some extent,
>but what evidence do you have that the commission of the cartoons was
>of a deliberately provocative nature.

There is no other explanation for waving a red flag at a bull other
than to provoke.

>Take a look around you on the
>Internet, which reaches more than the circulation of 150 thousand as
>the Denmark paper....do you REALLY think that these cartoons are of
>some level of greater evil that what surrounds us daily?

I never said anything of the sort.

>And think...even if it *were* deliberately provocative, as KKK or
>White supremacists marching in African American areas or neo-nazis
>marching in Jewish areas, what justification is there from the kinds
>of behavior seen in Syria, Gaza & Lebanon? Is this merited? Is this
>not it its own way provocative in a very deliberate way?

The violence is not justified, but it's reactive not provocative.

>I do not care how hateful the cartoons may be though of by some. Any
>excuse is used by fundies on both sides of the aisle to control the
>media. The fundie, right wing American Family Association just made
>sure that a show (Book of Daniel) was pulled from the NBC lineup
>though it's organized protestations. I do not like those fundies
>trying to censor what I see, either. Do you want more examples of
>religion getting it knickers in a knot and trying to control what they
>do not like, even among those who do not belong to their religion?

There is as much of that from the secular "fundies," who get their
knickers in a knot and don't want to hear any mention of peoples'
religious beliefs.

>Look at the BS about the term "Happy Holidays," just a month
>ago...look at what has come up in discussions around here when people
>have been accused of being bigoted for not taking someone else's
>religious writing as the true word of their god.

And there is plenty of the secular fundies making ugly comments about
religious beliefs.

>snip
>>These guys can blah-blah all they want about their high-minded ideals
>>and who they didn't want to offend, but there's no doubt that they
>>were looking for a rumble. So they got it.
>>
>
>I do not care what the newspaper published. I am a believer is freedom
>of the expression, even if it is espouses opinions I find repulsive.
>Once again, I offer the televised antics of Pat Robertson as a counter
>example.

Well, other people don't have the same beliefs as we do, and the
newspaper knew it. In fact that is why they commissioned the
cartoons. Pulling the strings of angry zealots makes that newspaper
culpable to some degree in the subsequent destruction.

>Riots and burning of embassies in reaction to these cartoons is
>idiotic, bigoted and untenable by any account. What happened Denmark
>was not incitement to riot, but the reaction to it has been insane
>over-reaction by fundamentalist bigots.
>
>Boron

It seems that you don't see the cartoons as "bigoted," only the
response.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
 
Peter Huebner <[email protected]> hitched up their panties and posted
news:[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>> Christianity went thru a phase like that
>> about 1000 years ago, but we pretty much grew out of it.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bob
>>
>>
>
> Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of
> humour displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and
> probably a bit more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.
>
> Think of those retards blowing up abortion clinics and shooting
> doctors 'to save lives'.
>
> Too much Religion is bad for the soul. -P.
>

I'll agree with this. Which explains my rejection of organized religion at
the tender age of 14. IMO, and again, it's JMO, that organized religion is
responsible for the deaths of more people than the many wars we have
fought. I left the Catholic church when I found out how many people were
murdered when the church was state in the dark ages.

Michael

--
“It requires a certain kind of mind to see beauty in a hamburger bun.”
_Ray Kroc, creator of the McDonald's franchise
 
"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Remember the Danish resistance to the Nazi occupiers during WWII. They
> managed to evacuate a goodly number of Jews to safe haven (at great
> risk to themselves). IIRC when the Nazis stipulated that Jews must
> wear a yellow Star of David the Danish royal family as a sign of
> solidarity donned yellow Stars too...

Sadly, not true about the Danish King and the Star of David...
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/denmark.htm

Lisa Ann
 
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 06:53:40 GMT, [email protected] (Curly
Sue) wrote:


>
>It seems that you don't see the cartoons as "bigoted," only the
>response.
>

It does not matter if they were or were not "bigoted." You have, once
again, missed the point completely.

And what is a "secular fundie"? Did you make that up all by yourself?

Boron
 
"zxcvbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Peter Huebner wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> says...
>>
>>> Christianity went thru a phase like that about 1000 years ago, but
>>> we pretty much grew out of it.
>>>
>>> Best regards, Bob
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of
>> humour displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and
>> probably a bit more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.
>
> [snip]
>
> I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition...

NO-ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition......
 
zxcvbob wrote:

>
> > Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of
> > humour displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and
> > probably a bit more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.
>
> [snip]
>
> I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition...
>

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
:)
 
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 07:51:37 -0500, Boron Elgar
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 06:53:40 GMT, [email protected] (Curly
>Sue) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>It seems that you don't see the cartoons as "bigoted," only the
>>response.
>>
>
>It does not matter if they were or were not "bigoted." You have, once
>again, missed the point completely.
>
>And what is a "secular fundie"? Did you make that up all by yourself?
>
>Boron


Ah...I have searched the term "secular fundie." Google sees it 77
times. It is used by right wing extremist religious web
sites...infrequently, at that, but that is its source. Did you pick it
up from one of those? Are you trying to express some sort of bigoted
statement about those who are do not believe about religion the way
you do?

Boron
 
Curly Sue wrote:

>
> There is no other explanation for waving a red flag at a bull other
> than to provoke.
>

That may be, but it was not the Danish people or the Danish government that waved
a proverbial red flag. It was the action of the editors of a newspaper. The
government's big sin is that the prime minister refused to have a meeting with
some Islamic embassadors to discuss it because he thought that it was an issue of
free speech.

> >And think...even if it *were* deliberately provocative, as KKK or
> >White supremacists marching in African American areas or neo-nazis
> >marching in Jewish areas, what justification is there from the kinds
> >of behavior seen in Syria, Gaza & Lebanon? Is this merited? Is this
> >not it its own way provocative in a very deliberate way?
>
> The violence is not justified, but it's reactive not provocative.

We like to think not, but when you consider first major attack on an embassy was
in Syria, where people live under an iron fist, and things like this don't happen
expect with the consent of the government, and that the second one was in Lebanon,
which has been heavily influenced by Syria, and that most of the culprits who were
arrested for their involvement were Syrians.

> There is as much of that from the secular "fundies," who get their
> knickers in a knot and don't want to hear any mention of peoples'
> religious beliefs.

I don't know about the others but I can handle hearing about them. I just don't
want my life governed by their various mythologies. I don't want to have to choose
one or the other.


> Well, other people don't have the same beliefs as we do, and the
> newspaper knew it. In fact that is why they commissioned the
> cartoons. Pulling the strings of angry zealots makes that newspaper
> culpable to some degree in the subsequent destruction.

Sorry, but I don't buy that. It just helps to expose them for what they are.

>
> It seems that you don't see the cartoons as "bigoted," only the
> response.

It is interesting that they tend to present an image of behaviour strikingly
similar to that which was the response. Perhaps the truth hurts.
 
Dave Smith wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>
>>>Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of
>>>humour displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and
>>>probably a bit more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition...
>>
>
>
> Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> :)
>
>
>

I was ignoring this thread, but now I'm glad I read it. Never want to
miss out on a Python reference.

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams
 
"Dave Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Curly Sue wrote:
>
>>
>> There is no other explanation for waving a red flag at a bull other
>> than to provoke.
>>
>
> That may be, but it was not the Danish people or the Danish government
> that waved
> a proverbial red flag. It was the action of the editors of a newspaper.
> The
> government's big sin is that the prime minister refused to have a meeting
> with
> some Islamic embassadors to discuss it because he thought that it was an
> issue of
> free speech.
>

What I find particularly troubling is that when the original cartoons were
circulated in the Muslim world, some persons unknown added additional and
even more offensive cartoons that they created, attributing them to the
Danish newspaper, to further inflame the population. While much more
blatant, this is akin to the continual program of disinformation from the
Bush administration, with the willing help of Fox News and other servile
"news" outlets, to whip up public support for the war and their other
policies.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm
 
Peter Aitken wrote:

>
> > That may be, but it was not the Danish people or the Danish government
> > that waved
> > a proverbial red flag. It was the action of the editors of a newspaper.
> > The
> > government's big sin is that the prime minister refused to have a meeting
> > with
> > some Islamic embassadors to discuss it because he thought that it was an
> > issue of
> > free speech.
> >
>
> What I find particularly troubling is that when the original cartoons were
> circulated in the Muslim world, some persons unknown added additional and
> even more offensive cartoons that they created, attributing them to the
> Danish newspaper, to further inflame the population. While much more
> blatant, this is akin to the continual program of disinformation from the
> Bush administration, with the willing help of Fox News and other servile
> "news" outlets, to whip up public support for the war and their other
> policies.
>

It would certainly be ironic that someone in the middle east, and presumably
Moslem, would create even more offensive cartoons than the originals. One would
expect that to be a greater sin than drawing or publishing the originals.
 
zxcvbob wrote:
> Peter Huebner wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says...
> >
> >> Christianity went thru a phase like that about 1000 years ago, but
> >> we pretty much grew out of it.
> >>
> >> Best regards, Bob
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Which pretty much sums it up. Little or no difference to the sense of
> > humour displayed by frothing at the mouth fundamentalist X-tians and
> > probably a bit more forgiving than the Spanish Inquisition.
>
> [snip]
>
> I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition...
>
>
> Bob

For heaven's sake, NOONE expects the Spanish Inquisition!

maxine in ri
 
Boron Elgar wrote:

>>And what is a "secular fundie"? Did you make that up all by yourself?
>>
>>Boron
>
>
>
> Ah...I have searched the term "secular fundie." Google sees it 77
> times. It is used by right wing extremist religious web
> sites...infrequently, at that, but that is its source. Did you pick it
> up from one of those? Are you trying to express some sort of bigoted
> statement about those who are do not believe about religion the way
> you do?
>
> Boron


Try searching for "Secular fundamentalism" instead. You used "fundie"
in a previous post and I believe Sue just picked up on it and tried to
use your own words so you would understand them. HTH :)

Best regards,
Bob
 
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