Darkness Calls Again - Scorpion FX? Greenspeed? Hase?



A

Artemisia

Guest
About this time last year I was spiritually - but not yet materially -
bitten by the Dark Side. The obvious merits of a recumbent trike, for
someone with balance problems and very heavy, extremely bruisable flesh,
became hard to ignore, and I spent many hours when I should have been
more gainfully employed, drooling over the Trice T. The thread
(http://tinyurl.com/yppgk3), which some of you might remember, went on
and on, and taught me a great deal.

Well, the yearnings have come back, but with more parameters. I want
commuter and touring functions, and need to face hilly ground. I must be
able, not only to get on trains and planes with the trike, but also to
transport it to the station or airport, with other luggage, unaided. I
do not drive and have no access to a car. Paris taxis are outrageaously
expensive and surly about accepting unconventional loads. For at least
the past four years, there have been no working elevators at the Gare du
Nord to reach platforms for the UK or the Netherlands, frequent
destinations. I cannot get on escalators because of my balance problems.
The amount I can carry upstairs, asthmatic and cardiac as I am, is very
limited.

Load-bearing capacity is becoming a serious consideration. My Dahon
folding tourer has changed my life - we have already done many splendid
trips together. But I am to heavy for him, and the penalty is non-stop
popping tubes, breaking spokes and warping wheels. Also I cannot carry
any luggage on him at all - even u-lock and water are problematic -
limiting my touring to trips with luggage transfer services. On the
other hand, it is relatively easy with Flyzipper to accept a ride home
from a colleague, or to load him onto the bus or van or indeed barge
that are the support vehicles for my tours.

So I want an easily folding or separating machine, with a good granny
gear range, at least partly shiftable at a standstill, with a load
capacity of at least 300 lb. I'm not totally sure, but I think I prefer
the more upright seat angle. I will have to do some tests, allowing that
almost none of the machines I'm admiring are sold in my area.

I've pretty much eliminated the Trice T from the lineup, because of the
conventional gearing system. I've been looking hard at the Scorpion FX,
though its load capacity is on the low side. Meanwhile, I've become
entranced with the wildly expensive Greenspeed models, especially the
GTO (http://www.greenspeed.com.au/gto.html) and Sheldon Brown's GT3
(http://www.sheldonbrown.org/greenspeed/).

I read the Folding Society's report on the Trice QNT
(http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/triceqnt2.html). While generally favorable,
the reviewer is extremely unconvinced on the transportability issue. He
says "It isn't realistic to regard them as suitable for a daily
train-assisted commute, however clever the folding arrangements might
be. In fact the folded size and weight would probably mean that using a
train to transport one would not be an option." He defends the folding
feature purely on being able to load the trike in a car. But train
transport is essential to my projects.

So can anyone having one of these machines comment on their portability?
Wafflycat, do you ever take Dr Norbert Frosty on trains or planes? Eric
Sandblom, did you finally possess the Scorpion FX you fell in love with
in February and can you tell us how you're getting on?

Has anyone tried the Greenspeeds? The GTO supposedly de-couples and can
be packed into two suitcases, more compactly, they claim,than a folder
into a single case. But are those suitcases standard-size checkable
wheely-pull baggage? And can the Greenspeed carry his cases, when his
cases are not carrying him (else what is one to do with them)?

How do you walk a Dark Side trike? Presumably it's too low to hold the
handlebars and toodle it along-side you like an upright? But there must
be occasions when you need to walk it?

Are there any other hard-line Car-frees on this list? I vowed sometime
around 1970 that I would never own or drive a car until they were
completely non-polluting. I'm still waiting. Meanwhile, environmental
awareness of some others around me is finally catching up with my
adolescent self. Is a really good bent trike like the GTO at least a
partial alternative to a car (it costs nearly as much)?

Finally, given that these machines are faraminously pricey, what do the
proud owners do about insurance, parking, locking? You can't just leave
them at the street corner! Unlike cars they don't have a double set of
keys for doors and ignition. What happens when you need to get off and
visit the castle? Assembled, they won't even fit into standard bike
parking racks.

Cheers all,

EFR
Ile de France
 
A

Alistair Gunn

Guest
In uk.rec.cycling Artemisia twisted the electrons to say:
> I've pretty much eliminated the Trice T from the lineup, because of the
> conventional gearing system.


The rear end on the standard Trice models is Rohloff ready if you want
(and if you can afford a Speedhub as well as a the Trice!). Alternatively
I suppose (again if you can justify the expense) either a Schlumpf or a
DualDrive system could be fitted. For either of those 3 options you'll be
talking to whomever sells you the trike as ICE don't ship one so equipped.

> I read the Folding Society's report on the Trice QNT
> (http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/triceqnt2.html). While generally favorable,
> the reviewer is extremely unconvinced on the transportability issue.


I've taken my QNT on the train once - took the rear wheel out, folded the
suspension under and took the seat off. I then stacked it sideways in
the bicycle space and hoped noone else wanted to get on! It's certainly
not something I'd want to do a regular basis, and not (IMHO) practical on
a regular commute. I *think* you need to regard any folding in recumbent
trikes as being equivalent to that provided by Airnimal uprights (ie:
useful for taking long distances) rather than provided by Bromptons /
Birdys (ie: useful for multi-modal commutes).

> So can anyone having one of these machines comment on their portability?
> Wafflycat, do you ever take Dr Norbert Frosty on trains or planes? Eric
> Sandblom, did you finally possess the Scorpion FX you fell in love with
> in February and can you tell us how you're getting on?


In addition to the aforementioned train journey, I've packed it into the
back of a couple of cars. However since use of the rear seats was not
required, all I did was drop the rear wheel out and fold the rear swing
arm under.

> How do you walk a Dark Side trike? Presumably it's too low to hold the
> handlebars and toodle it along-side you like an upright? But there must
> be occasions when you need to walk it?


On my QNT I either grab rear rack (if I've got it fitted) or the rear
wheel (if no rack), lift and then pull the trike backwards. Or at least
that's what I did until the velcro retention strap broke (not ICE's fault,
it had been incorrectly bodged by a previous owner!).

You can wheel it around with your hands on the ends of the handlebars,
but you wouldn't want to go more than a couple of metres like that.

Not that it's particularly relevant, but my Streetmachine was the easiest
'bent to walk around I've experienced - grab the top of the seat and
push, to turn lean the trike in the desired direction!

> Are there any other hard-line Car-frees on this list? I vowed sometime
> around 1970 that I would never own or drive a car until they were
> completely non-polluting. I'm still waiting. Meanwhile, environmental
> awareness of some others around me is finally catching up with my
> adolescent self. Is a really good bent trike like the GTO at least a
> partial alternative to a car (it costs nearly as much)?


I sold my last car (a rather sporty 1293cc Mini) back in 2004. I've only
had 2 occasions since then when I wanted a car, and only 1 of those has
been a "I need a car *now*" moment.

> Finally, given that these machines are faraminously pricey, what do the
> proud owners do about insurance, parking, locking? You can't just leave
> them at the street corner! Unlike cars they don't have a double set of
> keys for doors and ignition. What happens when you need to get off and
> visit the castle? Assembled, they won't even fit into standard bike
> parking racks.


My QNT will (just) fit into what appears to be the standard spacing for
Sheffield Stands. However for preference I tend to go for the stand at
the end if I can. As for security, I use a Kryptonite Chainlock through
the rear wheel and through one of the seat supports (not quite sure how
I'll provide any security when I switch to the hardshell seat?). I'm
also careful where I leave it!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
A

Artemisia

Guest
Alistair Gunn wrote:

> The rear end on the standard Trice models is Rohloff ready if you want
> (and if you can afford a Speedhub as well as a the Trice!). Alternatively
> I suppose (again if you can justify the expense) either a Schlumpf or a
> DualDrive system could be fitted. For either of those 3 options you'll be
> talking to whomever sells you the trike as ICE don't ship one so equipped.


Well exactly, they don't ship one, and I'm not so hot on spending large
on something which will have to be rebuilt as soon as it arrives.
Moreover there is no one local who _can_ sell it. And ICE themselves
sound distinctly lukewarm in their "Rohloff ready" recommendations.

> I then stacked it sideways in
> the bicycle space and hoped noone else wanted to get on!


On the bike space or on the whole train?

> I sold my last car (a rather sporty 1293cc Mini) back in 2004.


Congratulations! OTOH, you're a much better cyclist than I am. (I say
that with confidence because it's true of just about anybody).

> My QNT will (just) fit into what appears to be the standard spacing for
> Sheffield Stands. However for preference I tend to go for the stand at
> the end if I can. As for security, I use a Kryptonite Chainlock through
> the rear wheel and through one of the seat supports (not quite sure how
> I'll provide any security when I switch to the hardshell seat?). I'm
> also careful where I leave it!


I would of course get it tatooed with the French police, but that would
apply no farther afield than France. I checked out a special insurance
policy offered for bikes for Flyzipper, but there were major
impracticalities: the policy was voided if you did not use a u-lock and
attach bike to a fixed point. Now even if a trike would be robust enough
for the added weight of the u-lock, a fixed point is not always
available, or legal.

Thanks for your informative reply.

EFR
Ile de France
 
A

Alistair Gunn

Guest
In uk.rec.cycling Artemisia twisted the electrons to say:
> Alistair Gunn wrote:
> Well exactly, they don't ship one, and I'm not so hot on spending large
> on something which will have to be rebuilt as soon as it arrives.


That's understandable ...

> And ICE themselves sound distinctly lukewarm in their "Rohloff ready"
> recommendations.


<nods> ... but part of that doesn't make sense IMHO. They say that with
a 52/16T Rohloff setup you'll have a gear range of ~17.7-93" (which they
claim isn't really wide enough). However, the default range on one of
the standard trikes is 18.2-91.7" which is narrower!

> > I then stacked it sideways in
> > the bicycle space and hoped noone else wanted to get on!

> On the bike space or on the whole train?


<LOL>

> > I sold my last car (a rather sporty 1293cc Mini) back in 2004.

> Congratulations! OTOH, you're a much better cyclist than I am. (I say
> that with confidence because it's true of just about anybody).


Well, it helps that I live somewhere reasonably flat and that there's a
major supermarket halfway between where I work and where I live!

> Now even if a trike would be robust enough for the added weight of the
> u-lock, a fixed point is not always available, or legal.


<nods> U-locks don't really work with the standard trices as you can't
put the lock around both a wheel and through the frame (since there's no
frame to put it through!). It could work on something like Scorpion
since that actually has a rear triangle.

> Thanks for your informative reply.


No problem ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
I

Ian Smith

Guest
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Alistair Gunn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> <nods> U-locks don't really work with the standard trices as you can't
> put the lock around both a wheel and through the frame (since there's no
> frame to put it through!). It could work on something like Scorpion
> since that actually has a rear triangle.


U-locks work fine.

Put the trice up against a vertical post at the main cruciform. Put
U-lock round the intersection of the three mutually perpendicular
tubes. It is now as inextricably locked to the post as if the U-lock
went through a closed loop of the frame - impossible to remove without
severely bending or cutting a frame member.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
S

squeaker

Guest
On 13 Jul, 19:06, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
> How do you walk a Dark Side trike? Presumably it's too low to hold the
> handlebars and toodle it along-side you like an upright? But there must
> be occasions when you need to walk it?
>

With my Trice S, I just pick up the rear end by the top of the seat
(sufficient to lift the rear wheel) and steer it from their. Wouldn't
like to go a long way with it loaded though. (I use Radical seat
bags: I suspect that conventional panniers would get in the way for
this 'trick'.)
 
E

Erik Sandblom

Guest
Den 2007-07-13 20:06:17 skrev Artemisia <[email protected]>:

> Eric Sandblom, did you finally possess the Scorpion FX you fell in love
> with in February and can you tell us how you're getting on?



Thanks for asking. Not yet. I think recumbent trikes are a little less
practical than uprights and especially Bromptons, since they take up so
much space. I've been recommended some nice day tours suitable for
recumbents (with few cars, so no rear bumper view) but it's a matter of
fun compensating the lack of utility. Not much of a functional alibi for
me buying one. The best would be if you could rent them.

I've also looked into taking it on a train, and found these nifty folding
recumbents in Berlin, Aiolos. This trike folds to 85x49x34 cm without
tools.

http://www.aiolos.de/trilite.htm

Might go well with a folding trailer. Or just something you can use to
cart the folded trike. The trailer would solve your baggage carrying
requirements I believe.

http://www.carryfreedom.com/city.html

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Erik Sandblom
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Den 2007-07-13 20:06:17 skrev Artemisia <[email protected]>:
>
>> Eric Sandblom, did you finally possess the Scorpion FX you fell in love
>> with in February and can you tell us how you're getting on?

>
>
> Thanks for asking. Not yet. I think recumbent trikes are a little less
> practical than uprights and especially Bromptons, since they take up so
> much space. I've been recommended some nice day tours suitable for
> recumbents (with few cars, so no rear bumper view) but it's a matter of
> fun compensating the lack of utility. Not much of a functional alibi for
> me buying one. The best would be if you could rent them.


There's a good crop of recumbent trikes on ebay.co.uk at the moment - one
Windcheetah, one Scorpion, one Challenge Concept, one Trice, one KMX
X-Class. With so many on at the same time, prices may be keen.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us
;; many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets.
;; Imagination without skill gives us modern art.
;; Tom Stoppard, Artist Descending A Staircase
 
I

Ian Smith

Guest
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:06:17 +0200, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> How do you walk a Dark Side trike? Presumably it's too low to hold
> the handlebars and toodle it along-side you like an upright? But
> there must be occasions when you need to walk it?


Remove the right pannier and put it on the seat. stand beside the
pannier rack facing the opposite direction to the trice. Hold the
rack . Standing with ones arm straight lifts the rear wheel off the
ground and it trails docilely along behind.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
M

Mark McNeill

Guest
Response to Simon Brooke:
> There's a good crop of recumbent trikes on ebay.co.uk at the moment - one
> Windcheetah, one Scorpion, one Challenge Concept, one Trice, one KMX
> X-Class. With so many on at the same time, prices may be keen.


That Windcheetah looks very nice.


The seller also has a nice-looking fixie on offer which would fit me.
And he's only just up the road... Hmmm...



--
Mark, UK
"Look behind you, a Three-Headed Monkey!"
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Mark McNeill
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Response to Simon Brooke:
>> There's a good crop of recumbent trikes on ebay.co.uk at the moment -
>> one Windcheetah, one Scorpion, one Challenge Concept, one Trice, one KMX
>> X-Class. With so many on at the same time, prices may be keen.

>
> That Windcheetah looks very nice.


That's what I think - nicest colours of any Windcheetah I've seen. Sadly,
there's no way I can afford it just now.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If Python is executable pseudocode,
;; then Perl is executable line noise
-- seen on Slashdot.
 
A

Artemisia

Guest
Erik Sandblom wrote:

> I've also looked into taking it on a train, and found these nifty
> folding recumbents in Berlin, Aiolos. This trike folds to 85x49x34 cm
> without tools.
>
> http://www.aiolos.de/trilite.htm


Interesting link, but too little information. One really would need to
go to Berlin and get physical with one of these before one could have a
real idea. I feel the same about the other models I've been looking at.
They just aren't available ot try. Bikefix in London has a Scorpion but
not an FX. I have arranged to check it out when I'm next visiting, but
since the practicability of the folding mechanism is a primary
consideration there is much that i will not learn.

> http://www.carryfreedom.com/city.html


That's a cool piece of luggage too, quite apart from the discussion on
bents. I might buy one for Flyzipper.

Cheers,

EFR
Ile de France
 
A

Artemisia

Guest
Does anyone have any experience of some of the US makes? Cattrike? Sun?
I'm thinking that with the dollar so low right now, there could be some
opportunities. I have parents conveniently placed in San Diego who could
take delivery. I would eventually get myself over there to visit them
and retrieve it. But that would rule out test riding.

I was disheartened to discover that Greenspeed, with the most seductive
machines in this lineup, is from Oz, with prices thus unaffected by the
crashing Yankee dollar. It seems they have a new European agent in Czech
Republic - great cycling but not exactly next door. They couldn't go
with Netherlands or Germany like everyone else?

Oh well, enough whingeing. It's too hot for cycling so I'll go reread my
Harry Potters. Cheers,

EFR
Ile de France
 
J

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Guest
Artemisia wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience of some of the US makes? Cattrike? Sun?


Sun (a division of J&B Importers) recumbent trikes and bicycles are made
in Taiwan.

Wizwheelz is the other US manufacturer of mid-priced trikes:
<http://www.wizwheelz.com/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
T

Tim Hall

Guest
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:10:18 +0200, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:

>Does anyone have any experience of some of the US makes? Cattrike? Sun?
>I'm thinking that with the dollar so low right now, there could be some
>opportunities. I have parents conveniently placed in San Diego who could
>take delivery. I would eventually get myself over there to visit them
>and retrieve it. But that would rule out test riding.
>


Ian, umm, Buck(?) posts/ used to post on uk.rec.cycling. He's the UK
agent for Cattrike.

Hopefully he's reading this and will waken from his slumbers.

Tim
 
A

Artemisia

Guest
Tim Hall wrote:

> Ian, umm, Buck(?) posts/ used to post on uk.rec.cycling. He's the UK
> agent for Cattrike.


I'll try googling him and Carol Hague for my August trip. Perhaps they
have outlets somewhere in the South.

Thanks for all the leads.

EFR
Ile de France
 
D

Dart70ca

Guest
My mother has a Sun trike. Quite heavy and doesn't fold. Also, Sun
doesn't ship to individuals, nor do they permit their products to be
shipped by their resellers. Heavily built now but models earlier than
last years' were prone to cracking at the cross.
I think Wizwheels makes a model that comes apart for transport but
I don't know how practical it would be for commuting. Might want to
check the weight limit before inquiring too deeply as the folders
generally are a little lighter-duty than the standard ones.
You might be out of luck looking for a commuter trike with a high
weight limit. You might get away from busted spokes and flats only to
find that your wheels fold over when cornering.
I've read good things about Greenspeed so you might want to
contact them directly. Seem to recall them jumping through a few hoops
to unite a trike with it's new owner on several occasions. Pretty high
weight limits on the tourers, too.


Keith






Keith
 
A

Andy Leighton

Guest
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:40:07 +0200, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
> Tim Hall wrote:
>
>> Ian, umm, Buck(?) posts/ used to post on uk.rec.cycling. He's the UK
>> agent for Cattrike.

>
> I'll try googling him and Carol Hague for my August trip. Perhaps they
> have outlets somewhere in the South.


I think Carol is in Derbyshire. Their website is
<URL:http://www.wrhpv.com/>.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
 
A

Alan Braggins

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Andy Leighton wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:40:07 +0200, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Tim Hall wrote:
>>
>>> Ian, umm, Buck(?) posts/ used to post on uk.rec.cycling. He's the UK
>>> agent for Cattrike.


The most recent VeloVision had a Cattrike review:
http://www.velovision.co.uk/cgi-bin/show_comments.pl?storynum=868


>> I'll try googling him and Carol Hague for my August trip. Perhaps they
>> have outlets somewhere in the South.

>
>I think Carol is in Derbyshire. Their website is
><URL:http://www.wrhpv.com/>.


Yes, they kept the "West Country" bit of their name when they moved,
but they aren't in the West Country any more.

ICE are in Cornwall (so no more affected by the US dollar than Greenspeed),
and have dealers elsewhere in the UK.
http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/contact/dealers.htm
 
P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Alan Braggins wrote:

> ICE are in Cornwall (so no more affected by the US dollar than Greenspeed),
> and have dealers elsewhere in the UK.
> http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/contact/dealers.htm


One of their dealers is Kinetics, in Glasgow, and they can put a Rohloff
and/or a Schlumpf on one for you too. There is a Scorpion FX demo
machine available as well (or a Kettweisel, for something a bit different).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 

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