Dauphine Libere

[mitosis]

I didn't like seeing riders like Valverde and Piepoli so far back. Either Menchov was extra strong or they are saving themselves or they will not be up to it when the big Tour comes.

Forgot to mention Landis and zabriskie as disappointing performers.

And Menchov comes into the reckoning for the big circuit.

 

[tcklyde]

Awesome day for Chavenal and ... Kohl!!!

Mazzoleni in the Grupetto, though.

Tomorrow will be tough, Saturday will be brutal. Times gaps are pretty manageable. I'd say Menchov, Mancebo, Azevedo, Leipheimer, Moreau, and Chavanel all are in position to win.

 

[Ullefan]

I watched the stage. I don't understand why phonak were riding at the front if landis wasn't too good, if he was just riding within himself today, then why would his team be driving the peloton? What's happened to valverde, vino, and all the spanish riders, they were nowhere today. Sevilla always makes those attacks at the beginning of the climb that amount to nothing, but the little rider kohl looks promising. I don't see the benefit in Sevilla at the tour for ullrich, he's an attacker, not a tempo rider, and not a very good one either.

You all could be forgetting that all the riders excluding leipheimer were poor today because, afterall yesterday was a hard TT, today they paid the price, knew they weren't going to sacrifice their tour chances and dropped off. Just a thought.

 

[superdanuk]

Of course, we could be putting too much emphasis on today - but he looked like he was struggling today.
Or he looked to be working a lot harder for little or no reward.

The feeling that landis peaked to early this season and may not be in the form he should be is growing. However it has to be said that the tour doesn't start for a few weeks yet and the serious mountain stages a weekand half later so he's got plenty of time to recover his form. The questions in my mind at the moment are-

Are leipheimer and menchov peaking to soon for the TDF?
If Landis is struggling to recover his form after a great early season what are Basso's chances of recovering from the giro in time for the tour?
And whats up with Vino? 13 mins is a lot of time to lose on 1 mountain even if he was taking it easy.

 

[mitosis]

Stage 4 : kiss of death goes to : Valverde.
(possibly Mancebo)

I've now gone back to read everyone else's comments.

You are a *******. You may even have ruined his chances in Le Tour.

He was one of my favourites too.

Could you please not nominate any of the following riders to do well in any stage of any race:
Cadel Evans
Michael Rogers
Floyd Landis
Jan Ullrich
Alex Vinokourov
Rasmussen
Christophe Moreau
Chris Horner
The Dekker brothers
Brad McGee
Axel Merckx
Ivan Basso

And any Australian I haven't mentioned.

Thanks.

 

[doctorSpoc]

a quote from cyclingnews.com

" ...Exactly ten years ago, Bjarne Riis climbed the Ventoux 15 minutes behind Miguel Indurain, one month before taking him down from his throne at the Tour de France..."

the results could mean something... or they may mean absolutely nothing...

 

[Virenque]

I`m sure that both, Vino and Landis will do well at TdF.
Recovery in Landis` case probably can`t be a problem. TdGeorgia enden on 4/23. I think we didn`t see anything of him after TdG (correct me if I`m wrong). I doubt a lot that he couldn`t recover from end of April.

Not everyone rode that way up Mont Ventoux, obviously. Alexandre Vinokourov, Floyd Landis and George Hincapie looked like they were not trying their best, probably afraid of burning themselves instead of doing solid work in their lead up to the Tour de France. "I think they're coming all off a big break from racing," Leipheimer noticed. "At a point, they weren't pushing as hard as they could, that's what I think."

I totaly agree. I didn`t see Vino but I think Landis didn`t suffer a lot and that Hincapie didn`t suffer at all. Valverde was definitely suffering which doesn`t surprise me. He is active from February to October every year.

It really was a great stage. All smells of TdF. France, Mt.Ventoux, biggest GT names. I love that smell. Can`t wait for TdF.
Menchov won it in 2002. Who would have believed. I forgot it completely and didn`t believe when someone posted it.

 

[Catabolic_Jones]

Interesting day. I was totally out to lunch on my predictions. I wonder if some guys are playing possum a bit. The DL certainly is a delectable appertif which adds relish to the main course.

Nice ride by Menchov, and who would have thought of Moreau? Great stuff.

 

[mitosis]

Sorry folks, I can't accept that some people did poorly because they are saving it for the TDF.

In my mind, Landis, Popovitch, Mayo, and Vinakourov all got ripped today. And the only way that it's not important is if they were sick or injured. I don't want to over rely on the Mayo - Armstrong thing of a couple of years ago. If you want to coast when you go up the mountain, then stay in training camp. Sure, they weren't trying to peak for this race. But neither were Menchov and Leipheimer. My thinking is that Landis, Popo, Mayo and Vino do not make the TDF top five.

My initial thought was that Popo might be a better (although not great) GC candidate
than Hincapie. Looks like I had that backwards. I'm not suddenly expecting great things from George. But you have to give him credit for hauling that big carcase up the mountain as well as he did such a short time after coming back from injuries.

Well yes and no.

Some riders (as Armstrong did in the past) use th Dauphine as a warm up and, like Ullrich in the Giro had hard hit-out from time to time whereas others are in it for the win.

I don't know how you are supposed to figure out who is going all out (you read the interviews and then read between the lines of the interviews, you check the video, read the team spin), I'm sure there is plenty of foxing going on but as many have pointed out, its 5 weeks till the first mountain stage in LeTour - that is a long time and can result in big differences in fitness.

Point is that it is too early to rule someone out or claim a victory in the ride around the vineyards.

 

[Virenque]

Some interesting photos from Mt.Ventoux: Landis, Vino, Landis2, Valverde, Landis3, Popo, Mayo.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Of course, we could be putting too much emphasis on today - but he looked like he was struggling today.
Or he looked to be working a lot harder for little or no reward.

Agreed. Phonak were setting tempo on the front of the peleton before the attacks. If today was a "go easy day" for Landis they would have sat in the bunch and let the others do the work. The EuroSport footage shows Valverde being paced on the climb as well and there were several shots of his teammates turning around to check if he still had there wheel. It should be noted that Ventoux is not like any other mountain. The wind and the heat are two big factors that make it very different than any other mountain pass in the region. Tommy Simpson (although pumped full of more gear than Lou Ferrigno) died on Ventoux due to the oppressive heat conditions. The top of the mountain is not shielded by tree line and the sun bares straight down at the riders. Of the favorites everyone seemed to be waiting for everyone else to make a move and when the attacks came nobody reacted. Levi and Menchov were smarter enough to get into the breaks when Mancebo and Moureu did the old "one two" double barreled attacks.

Seville seemed to be making a statement to his team. Dropped for the Tour he was attacking on the lower slopes to say "I can ride without the gear, look at me !" - Maybe all in vain as politics plays a bigger part than truth in this game.

One further point and shoot me down if you want but after the Spanish doping affair it appears that a lot of rides are coming back to the pack. Let’s see what happens on today and on Saturday and in the TDS but to see French riders shooting of the front of the peleton on a mountain climb (insert Chavanel, Vassuer and Moreau) and staying away is not something I have seen for a long time. thoughts ?

 

[seriouslydog]

I wouldn't count Landis out of the top five in the Tour just yet. It would make sense for him to want to peak twice this year: Once early on, around the inaugural Tour of California and the Tour of Georgia (with the chance to get some face time in the States and give the American public a new name to cheer). Then a period of taking it easier to recuperate a bit. All in order to start gearing up and, hopefully, start to hit his peak toward the end of the first week of the Tour with all those former LA fans shouting him on.

What surprises me the most is that Basso decided to go full out for the Giro and potentially give up the crown LA had all but conceded him when he retired. Maybe Basso bought to much into LA's early predicitons of a Jan win? I'd seriously hope not, but going all out in the Giro (and he went all out) doesn't strike me as the most sensible thing to do. How long can these riders stay at their peak before they need to let their bodies recover? Because honestly, it's not always about who the best is but who can hit peak performance when it counts.

 

[mitosis]

Agreed. Phonak were setting tempo on the front of the peleton before the attacks. If today was a "go easy day" for Landis they would have sat in the bunch and let the others do the work. The EuroSport footage shows Valverde being paced on the climb as well and there were several shots of his teammates turning around to check if he still had there wheel. It should be noted that Ventoux is not like any other mountain. The wind and the heat are two big factors that make it very different than any other mountain pass in the region. Tommy Simpson (although pumped full of more gear than Lou Ferrigno) died on Ventoux due to the oppressive heat conditions. The top of the mountain is not shielded by tree line and the sun bares straight down at the riders. Of the favorites everyone seemed to be waiting for everyone else to make a move and when the attacks came nobody reacted. Levi and Menchov were smarter enough to get into the breaks when Mancebo and Moureu did the old "one two" double barreled attacks.

Seville seemed to be making a statement to his team. Dropped for the Tour he was attacking on the lower slopes to say "I can ride without the gear, look at me !" - Maybe all in vain as politics plays a bigger part than truth in this game.

One further point and shoot me down if you want but after the Spanish doping affair it appears that a lot of rides are coming back to the pack. Let’s see what happens on today and on Saturday and in the TDS but to see French riders shooting of the front of the peleton on a mountain climb (insert Chavanel, Vassuer and Moreau) and staying away is not something I have seen for a long time. thoughts ?

NIce hypothesis.

 

[seriouslydog]

Nice hypothesis.

I just don't buy it. I don't think we'd be seeing a plunge in performance so soon.

Yes, Vino hasn't looked good but it seems to me he is one of the most difficult riders to predict. You never know what is going on with him. I think he may be the most talented head case on the tour.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I just don't buy it. I don't think we'd be seeing a plunge in performance so soon.

Yes, Vino hasn't looked good but it seems to me he is one of the most difficult riders to predict. You never know what is going on with him. I think he may be the most talented head case on the tour.

Agreed. I think when riders like Landis, Vino and co. felt the pinch they didn't push it. They got themselves through the climb. If it was the Tour they would have gone all the way into their reserves. However what Thursday showed was that the big riders can have a bad day when the attacks came. There was a lot of attacks and I hope this is a sign of things to come. Doesn't mean much at the DL but at the Tour 1-5 minutes is going to count and count a lot. CSC are not here in full force so the high tempo mountain riding wasn't a factor but its encouraging to see this attacking style of riding. When Moreau attacked 3 times he looked around to asses the damage and appeared too surprised at what he had done. I think he assumed that the big guns would be following him. Roll on Friday’s/Saturday’s stage and re-asses where we are.

 

[tcklyde]

And whats up with Vino? 13 mins is a lot of time to lose on 1 mountain even if he was taking it easy.

Well, his team's Doctor might not be in operation right now.

 

[tcklyde]

I just don't buy it. I don't think we'd be seeing a plunge in performance so soon.

Yes, Vino hasn't looked good but it seems to me he is one of the most difficult riders to predict. You never know what is going on with him. I think he may be the most talented head case on the tour.

I'd probably put Ullrich down for most talented head case. Or perhaps Kloden.

Vino may not be completely predictable, but I feel like I know where he is mentally: He wants to win. All the time. Classics, stages, tours. What other GC rider would even think of taking a flyer on the last stage of the Tour? Vino did, and he won it.

This makes him an amazing rider to watch, but also a somewhat inconsistent one. If there is confusion about Vino, it seems to me to stem from the reality that his body can't always keep up with his ambition. He can't attack everyday and always get away. And some days he is going to get dropped.

As for today on Ventoux, his performance is confusing. I wasn't entirely kidding about his team losing its doctor. But if I put the cynicism aside, I don't read too much else into today's performance. Maybe he just didn't feel like he had today. So no need to push it. Maybe it was a bad day. But with a rider of his dedication, I highly doubt it has anything to do with a lack of preparation.

 

[saluki]

One further point and shoot me down if you want but after the Spanish doping affair it appears that a lot of rides are coming back to the pack. Let’s see what happens on today and on Saturday and in the TDS but to see French riders shooting of the front of the peleton on a mountain climb (insert Chavanel, Vassuer and Moreau) and staying away is not something I have seen for a long time. thoughts ?

I had the same thought. But I'm not ready to draw conclusions until I see some more mountain stages. Mancebo was about where he should be. Aceveto was better than he has been in a long time. It's occured to me over the last couple of month that Valverde may be a little overrated. I think that his stock went way up when he beat Lance on a mountain stage of last years tour. But it's never too good to evaluate based on one good or one bad day. I was trying to remember that day Valverde beat Lance, and the one thing that I think I remember is that Valverde was on Mancebo's wheel most of the way before he and Lance made a break in the last kilometer or so.

Mayo is radically inconsistent; and the majority of the time he is not too good. Which has to make one wonder if he is getting a little help during the short periods when he is good.

Still, all things considered, you would have expected to see a lot more Spaniards on a stage like today's. Let's wait and see if it's a pattern or an anomoly.

 

[saluki]

But with a rider of his dedication, I highly doubt it has anything to do with a lack of preparation.

I'm with you on that one. Vino is a hard worker and he always wants to win.

Consider this, Vino and Landis both had winter conditioning progams. Maybe it's just too much to expect the body to hold that sharp edge for such a long period of time. Eventually it's going to take time off - both mentally and physically. To me Landis looks heavier now than when I saw him in the Tour of California in February.

 

[moviekindoflife]

a few thoughts about todays stage:

the leader of the stage today was gilbert, and it seemed unlikely that his team would ride on the front, knowing that no amount of riding would keep him permanently in yellow/blue. its obvious that landis wasn't as strong as he could have been, but maybe his team used the oppurtunity to get some time leading the pack in preparation for later on, since FDJ weren't doing it. I'm just thinking out loud.

if i'm not mistaken vino rode pretty well at last year's dauphine, but he had already built up some form in the early season, not focusing 100% on the tour. He has said that he isn't in top form yet, so i'm not surprised to see him not pushing himself at the dauphine.

i think levi, menchov, moreau gave it all they had. Azevedo too. Hard to say how this will affect them later. I like moreau a lot and hope that the form he showed today holds out for the next month and a half.