Dawes Audax

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Anton Gibbs, Jul 30, 2003.

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  1. Anton Gibbs

    Anton Gibbs Guest

    Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am
    hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
     
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  2. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    Anton Gibbs wrote:
    > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I
    > am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >
    >
    I have one of these (dawes audax). I'll go look later, but I know my flightdeck reckons it to be a
    12, but it's possible I put in the inside and outside from the spec, and only checked the marks on
    the other ones...

    Velvet
     
  3. Chris French

    Chris French Guest

    In message <[email protected]>, Anton Gibbs <[email protected]> writes
    >Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    >checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am
    >hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >

    A good dealer may well be happy to change the cassette for you anyway.

    But legally a lot could depend on exactly how the transaction was carried out. In principle if the
    bike you bought is not the one you had a contract with the dealer to buy then yes you have a claim
    in principle against the dealer., however life isn't always that simple of course........

    Catalogues normally have some sort of 'we reserve the right to change the specs of the product
    etc.'. some websites do as well, but they are an interesting case as of course the content isn't
    fixed - the specs there on one day could be totally different the next.

    Anyway, my understanding of this (I could easily be wrong) is that unless you specify in someway
    that the bike must match the spec in the advert then this is considered just to be a guide as to the
    product. so if you said, I want the bike to be like this in the catalogue and the dealer agreed ,
    but then the bike wasn't then the situation is pretty clear.

    Did you see and buy the bike in the shop from existing stock, or was it ordered in, or was it bought
    mail order. Did you clarify the spec of the bike with the retailer in anyway?

    TBH, I doubt unless you did then legally you haven't got much to go on.

    The trading standards site has lots of info on your right when buying good and services.

    <http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/>
    --
    Chris French, Leeds
     
  4. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    Anton Gibbs wrote:

    > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I
    > am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >
    >
    Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on the biggest chainring,
    despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and straights. What sort of speed difference would the
    11 make over the 12, at, say, 80rpm?

    Velvet
     
  5. Ewan

    Ewan Guest

    Velvet wrote:

    > Anton Gibbs wrote:
    >
    >> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    >> checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I
    >> am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >>
    >>
    > Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on the biggest chainring,
    > despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and straights. What sort of speed difference would
    > the 11 make over the 12, at, say, 80rpm?

    80rpm, 700x28 tyre with a circumferance of 2140mm 52x12 = 44.5kph 52x11 = 48.6kph

    To be honest though, I would up my cadence a bit more than 80rpm, probably closer to 90 and at 30mph
    maybe even a bit more (100pm probably)

    eat

    --
    Latest photo collection added 27-July-03: http://photos.eatnet.org.uk scot-rail | scotland's online
    railway community @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scot-rail
     
  6. Anton Gibbs

    Anton Gibbs Guest

    Couldn't say about exact speed but the difference is about 10% which is quite significant. I
    certainly noticed the difference over my previous bike which was 52:11.

    "Velvet" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on the biggest chainring,
    > despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and straights. What sort of speed difference would
    > the 11 make over the 12, at, say, 80rpm?
    >
    > Velvet
     
  7. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    Velvet wrote:

    > Anton Gibbs wrote:
    >
    >> Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    >> checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I
    >> am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >>
    >>
    > Oh, have to ask though - I've yet to get into more than the first few on the biggest chainring,
    > despite managing some fast (for me) downhills and straights. What sort of speed difference would
    > the 11 make over the 12, at, say, 80rpm?
    >
    > Velvet
    >

    It's a 12 on mine. I looked on the shimano website (it being the tiagra set) and found it was a bit
    odd based on their figures, which was what prompted me to ID all the sprockets to put them into the
    flightdeck.

    Velvet
     
  8. Markk

    Markk Guest

    "Anton Gibbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web
    site)
    > says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone
    > know where I stand ? TIA.

    I have one of these, a 2001 model I think (bought 2nd hand, virtually unused). I don't think they
    changed much in 2002, but there are several changes in the 2003 model - 631 frame tubing vs 531c for
    a start. Mine has a 12 tooth smallest rear. Are you sure you weren't sold an old model?

    I regularly hit 30-35mph on my commute and am not aware of pedalling excessively fast.

    www.evanscycles.com is still advertising the 2002 model at £600 in 3 sizes, by the way.

    Mark
     
  9. W K

    W K Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > on most road race bikes, let alone audaxes, in my opinion. Wide-range cassettes staring with 11T
    > are designed for bikes with compact chainsets with small rings (typically with 42T big ring).

    Yes. And Typically a mountain bike too. 42x11 means that you spin out at 25mph and 90 rpm.

    If you are touring or doing a long day ride, that means you are going down a hill and
    deserve a rest.
     
  10. Markk

    Markk Guest

    "Anton Gibbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hmm, old model eh ? Well, I certainly paid the new model price :(

    Have you checked that it has 631 tubing? That's got to be the easiest way of confirming it's a
    2003 bike.

    Mark
     
  11. Alex Graham

    Alex Graham Guest

    Anton Gibbs wrote:
    > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I
    > am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >
    >

    Blimey. 52-13 is the top gear on my geared bike and I have only ever used it on _very_ large hills!

    --

    -Alex

    ----------------------------------
    [email protected]

    http://alexpg.ath.cx:3353/cycling.php http://www.westerleycycling.org.uk
    ----------------------------------
     
  12. Anton Gibbs

    Anton Gibbs Guest

    Yeah, I know what you mean re. the small print. (We reserve the right.... etc.). In previous times
    having out-of-date brochures was bad enough but these days having duff info on a website is
    inexcusable really. Anyway, I spoke to the dealer today who said he would get in touch with Dawes
    and find out what was going on. I am hoping they will change it out of goodwill/in return for the
    £800 I gave them :) I have already told them I am bringing it back to get the handlebars raised but
    that is another story...

    "chris French" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In message <[email protected]>, Anton Gibbs <[email protected]> writes
    > >Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > >checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web
    site)
    > >says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone
    > >know where I stand ? TIA.
    > >
    >
    > A good dealer may well be happy to change the cassette for you anyway.
    >
    > But legally a lot could depend on exactly how the transaction was carried out. In principle if the
    > bike you bought is not the one you had a contract with the dealer to buy then yes you have a claim
    > in principle against the dealer., however life isn't always that simple of course........
    >
    > Catalogues normally have some sort of 'we reserve the right to change the specs of the product
    > etc.'. some websites do as well, but they are an interesting case as of course the content isn't
    > fixed - the specs there on one day could be totally different the next.
    >
    > Anyway, my understanding of this (I could easily be wrong) is that unless you specify in someway
    > that the bike must match the spec in the advert then this is considered just to be a guide as to
    > the product. so if you said, I want the bike to be like this in the catalogue and the dealer
    > agreed , but then the bike wasn't then the situation is pretty clear.
    >
    > Did you see and buy the bike in the shop from existing stock, or was it ordered in, or was it
    > bought mail order. Did you clarify the spec of the bike with the retailer in anyway?
    >
    > TBH, I doubt unless you did then legally you haven't got much to go on.
    >
    > The trading standards site has lots of info on your right when buying good and services.
    >
    > <http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/>
    > --
    > Chris French, Leeds
     
  13. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Anton Gibbs wrote:
    > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference.

    Blimey, 52 x 12 is a very high gear already! 52 x 11 would be ridiculous on most road race bikes,
    let alone audaxes, in my opinion. Wide-range cassettes staring with 11T are designed for bikes with
    compact chainsets with small rings (typically with 42T big ring). It's a waste to use these with
    road chainsets. Dawes are stupid for specifying one. In fact, the 52 ring is on the large side as
    well but that's what is supplied as standard with low/mid-range triple cranksets.

    The top gear is good enough for more than 35mph if you spin properly, and for the steepest
    downhills, the highest speeds are achieved by freewheeling. If you need higher cruising gears the
    the outer ring can be used more (or middle ring could be replaced for a larger one).

    I have 52 x 13 on my road bike (and it wasn't long ago when freewheels only ever went up to 13). A
    higher gear might be nice occasionally but so much more value is had from the lower gears and a
    closer ratio cassette with smaller jumps between the gears.

    I strongly suggest keeping the existing gears and using a higher cadence - more efficient and better
    for the knees.

    But if you disagree and still want the other cassette, the dealer may well be willing to swap it for
    no no charge once the catalogue spec is pointed out to them - worth a try (and it is an easy job,
    physically). I doubt there's any legal obligation because Dawes probably state that their specs are
    "subject to change" and presumably you had a chance to examine goods or ask questions before buying.

    ~PB
     
  14. Anton Gibbs

    Anton Gibbs Guest

    Hmm, old model eh ? Well, I certainly paid the new model price :(

    I saw the Evans ad. for £600 but thought: No, I will pay the extra and go to a dealer for that extra
    service...

    The gearing thing is niggling me because I can notice the difference compared to my old (25 year
    old!) bike and also against my mates when we cycle together. The difference between 52:11 and 52:12
    is pretty noticeable. I was pretty dissappointed when I found out you couldn't adjust the
    handlebars...

    "MarkK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have one of these, a 2001 model I think (bought 2nd hand, virtually unused). I don't think they
    > changed much in 2002, but there are several changes in the 2003 model - 631 frame tubing vs 531c
    > for a start. Mine has
    a
    > 12 tooth smallest rear. Are you sure you weren't sold an old model?
    >
    > I regularly hit 30-35mph on my commute and am not aware of pedalling excessively fast.
    >
    > www.evanscycles.com is still advertising the 2002 model at £600 in 3
    sizes,
    > by the way.
    >
    > Mark
     
  15. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Alex Graham wrote:

    > Blimey. 52-13 is the top gear on my geared bike and I have only ever used it on _very_
    > large hills!

    You beat me to it! I was thinking the same thing and even used the same first word! :)

    I suppose some people like to spin much slower than us or just like the feeling of a great big
    over-drive gear. It's a waste though, I think.

    ~PB
     
  16. On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:12:41 +0100, "Anton Gibbs" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    >checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I am
    >hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >
    52x11 is the gear the top road sprinters use when flat out (40mph+) for the line. Unless you're
    planning to use your Dawes to challenge McEwen and co in next year's Tour de France I would stop
    worrying about whether it's an 11 or 12 - you'll never need either.

    Regards! Stephen
     
  17. Anton Gibbs

    Anton Gibbs Guest

    I guess my cadence might be a bit on the low side compared to most serious cyclists. I don't
    exceed 30mph very often but I do like to stay in a high gear and keep the power on. I am on the
    heavy side for a cyclist so I like to try to keep the momentum up. I am only cycling at a little
    over 15mph average.

    I am sure you are right and Dawes could invoke the "Well, you knew what you were buying" clause but
    if that were to happen I would be disappointed to say the least. I thought by buying British and
    paying top dollar I would get looked after. 48 and still getting it wrong... ;-)

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Anton Gibbs wrote:
    > > Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    > > checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference.
    >
    > Blimey, 52 x 12 is a very high gear already! 52 x 11 would be ridiculous on most road race bikes,
    > let alone audaxes, in my opinion. Wide-range cassettes staring with 11T are designed for bikes
    > with compact chainsets with small rings (typically with 42T big ring). It's a waste to use these
    > with road chainsets. Dawes are stupid for specifying one. In fact, the 52 ring is on the large
    > side as well but that's what is supplied as standard with low/mid-range triple cranksets.
    >
    > The top gear is good enough for more than 35mph if you spin properly, and for the steepest
    > downhills, the highest speeds are achieved by freewheeling. If you need higher cruising gears the
    > the outer ring can be used more (or middle ring could be replaced for a larger one).
    >
    > I have 52 x 13 on my road bike (and it wasn't long ago when freewheels only ever went up to 13). A
    > higher gear might be nice occasionally but so much more value is had from the lower gears and a
    > closer ratio cassette with smaller jumps between the gears.
    >
    > I strongly suggest keeping the existing gears and using a higher cadence - more efficient and
    > better for the knees.
    >
    > But if you disagree and still want the other cassette, the dealer may well be willing to swap it
    > for no no charge once the catalogue spec is pointed out to them - worth a try (and it is an easy
    > job, physically). I doubt there's any legal obligation because Dawes probably state that their
    > specs are "subject to change" and presumably you had a chance to examine goods or ask questions
    > before buying.
    >
    > ~PB
     
  18. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Anton Gibbs wrote:

    > The gearing thing is niggling me because I can notice the difference compared to my old (25 year
    > old!) bike and also against my mates when we cycle together. The difference between 52:11 and
    > 52:12 is pretty noticeable.

    Have you got 52:11 on the old bike?

    It could partly be New Bike Syndrome. For some odd reason, you tend to use and need higher gears
    than normal whilst getting used to a new bike, I find.

    ~PB
     
  19. Anton Gibbs

    Anton Gibbs Guest

    Well, I'm pretty sure 52:11 is what I had before. It's a bit difficult to check now as I
    de-commissioned it on Saturday at our local tip (full military honours etc.).

    I think New Bike Syndrome may be related to New Saddle Syndrome - a tendency to favour higher gears
    and put more weight on the pedals so as to relieve the pressure from elsewhere... Yarrrooo... :)

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Anton Gibbs wrote:
    >
    > > The gearing thing is niggling me because I can notice the difference compared to my old (25 year
    > > old!) bike and also against my mates when we cycle together. The difference between 52:11 and
    > > 52:12 is pretty noticeable.
    >
    > Have you got 52:11 on the old bike?
    >
    > It could partly be New Bike Syndrome. For some odd reason, you tend to use and need higher gears
    > than normal whilst getting used to a new bike, I find.
    >
    > ~PB
     
  20. In message <[email protected]>, Steve McGinty
    <[email protected]_DOT_.com> writes
    >On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:12:41 +0100, "Anton Gibbs" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Hi there. Just bought a Dawes Audax tourer. All very nice except the top gear seems a bit low. I
    >>checked and it is 52:12; the spec (on the web site) says 52:11 which makes quite a difference. I
    >>am hoping the dealer will change it for me. Anyone know where I stand ? TIA.
    >>
    >52x11 is the gear the top road sprinters use when flat out (40mph+) for the line. Unless you're
    >planning to use your Dawes to challenge McEwen and co in next year's Tour de France I would stop
    >worrying about whether it's an 11 or 12 - you'll never need either.
    >
    >Regards! Stephen

    Quite right. The OP should learn to ride at a higher cadence and save his knees.
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
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