De-oil new chain?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Donald Specker, May 2, 2003.

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  1. Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube. Seems that I'm supposed to clean
    the chain of the oil that comes on it. Should that oil be removed in all cases, or just when you're
    going to use a wax-based lube?

    Thanks.
     
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  2. Paul J Pharr

    Paul J Pharr Guest

    > Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube. Seems that I'm supposed to
    > clean the chain of the oil that comes on it. Should that oil be removed in all cases, or just when
    > you're going to use a wax-based lube?

    Some will tell you the oil thats on it is good stuff, leave it. Some will say clean thoroughly.
    There are lots of varied and valid opinions out there depending on circumstances, but If I were
    gonna use wax-based lube (White Lightning) on a new chain with factory oil/protectant on it, I'd
    clean it up really good first.

    Cheers

    Paul J Pharr
     
  3. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "Paul J Pharr" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > Some will tell you the oil thats on it is good stuff, leave it. Some will say clean thoroughly.
    > There are lots of varied and valid opinions out there depending on circumstances, but If I were
    > gonna use wax-based lube (White Lightning) on a new chain with factory oil/protectant on it, I'd
    > clean it up really good first.

    If you're going to use any kind of lube, thoroughly clean off the factory stuff first.
     
  4. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    If he's using White Lightning and doesn't want to waste alot, he should degrease it first.
    Otherwise, as Jobst and others have pointed out, the factory lubricant is as good as any, if not
    better, so the advise is to leave it if you plan on using real oil.

    --
    Robin Hubert <[email protected]>

    "Paul J Pharr" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:T_KcnT[email protected]...
    > > Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube.
    Seems
    > > that I'm supposed to clean the chain of the oil that comes on it.
    Should
    > > that oil be removed in all cases, or just when you're going to use a wax-based lube?
    >
    > Some will tell you the oil thats on it is good stuff, leave it. Some will say clean thoroughly.
    > There are lots of varied and valid opinions out
    there
    > depending on circumstances, but If I were gonna use wax-based lube (White Lightning) on a new
    > chain with factory oil/protectant on it, I'd clean it
    up
    > really good first.
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Paul J Pharr
     
  5. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Paul J Pharr" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > > Some will tell you the oil thats on it is good stuff, leave it. Some will say clean thoroughly.
    > > There are lots of varied and valid opinions out there depending on circumstances, but If I were
    > > gonna use wax-based lube (White Lightning) on a new chain with factory oil/protectant on it, I'd
    > > clean it up really good first.
    >
    > If you're going to use any kind of lube, thoroughly clean off the factory stuff first.
    >

    Baloney. Perhaps you can explain why? See my other post and also sit back and listen to the experts.

    --
    Robin Hubert <[email protected]
     
  6. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Ken wrote:

    > If you're going to use any kind of lube, thoroughly clean off the factory stuff first.

    Why?
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  7. Pete Geurds

    Pete Geurds Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube. Seems that I'm supposed to clean
    >the chain of the oil that comes on it. Should that oil be removed in all cases, or just when you're
    >going to use a wax-based lube?

    There's this little gem on the SRAM site: http://www.sram.com/tech_info/faq_display.asp?faq_id=14

    I emailed for more info. They seem to think the lube they used is good enough and you should just
    clean the chain externally. I'm having trouble believing I can clean the chain without soaking.

    Pete Geurds Douglassville, PA
     
  8. Richard Ney

    Richard Ney Guest

    Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote in news:tmorse-5788BE.09112802052003 @news.covad.net:
    >> If you're going to use any kind of lube, thoroughly clean off the factory stuff first.
    >
    > Why?

    In my experience, most high tech lubes won't bond with the chain metal if it is covered with the
    factory protectant. If you're using plain motor oil, that might not be a problem.
     
  9. > > If you're going to use any kind of lube, thoroughly clean off the
    factory
    > > stuff first.
    > >
    >
    > Baloney. Perhaps you can explain why? See my other post and also sit back and listen to the
    > experts.

    If you're going to use some other lube (than the stock stuff on the chain) and actually believe in
    the merits of the alternate lube, then it doesn't make a lot of sense to just apply it over the top
    of whatever's there. For example, let's say you're sold on White Lightning, because you think it's
    not going to collect gook and leave black greasy marks on your legs if you brush up against it (this
    is actually a true reason some people give). Won't do you much good applying a wax-type lube over
    the top of the stock stuff, because it's most likely not going to penetrate much, and certainly
    won't alter the properties of the original oil in such a way that it won't leave black marks on your
    legs if you brush against it (unless, of course, it hasn't collected any road grime yet).

    Please keep in mind I'm not defending White Lightning; I've become tired of all the goop that builds
    up around cogs etc, and found that it didn't have much staying power. The stock lube found on new
    chains works very well, and I'll generally just leave that on until it's time to clean the
    drivetrain maybe 500-1000 miles down the road. At that point I admit to a fondness for Rock'N'Roll
    "gold" or this new weird stuff called DuMonde Tech.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  10. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Pete Geurds writes:

    >> Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube. Seems that I'm supposed to
    >> clean the chain of the oil that comes on
    >> it. Should that oil be removed in all cases, or just when you're going to use a wax-based lube?

    When using an oil, there is no need to remove original lubricant although for wax type lubricants,
    the original greasy oil should be removed to convert to solid lubricant, although these have
    problems of their own, such as not working after riding in rain.

    > There's this little gem on the SRAM site: http://www.sram.com/tech_info/faq_display.asp?faq_id=14

    > I e-mailed for more info. They seem to think the lube they used is good enough and you should just
    > clean the chain externally. I'm having trouble believing I can clean the chain without soaking.

    I have trouble believing they didn't get that text from wreck.bike where this type of care has been
    promoted by "don't touch that dirty thing" proponents. They don't seem to understand what cleaning
    is, the most important grit being that which is inside the chain and in the crevices leading to that
    inside. This dirt cannot be wiped off. Only the external, cosmetic dirt can be "wiped" off.

    SRAM:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Here are steps to cleaning your chain:

    A. We suggest leaving the chain on the bike.
    B. Wipe off any excess dirt, water, etc.
    C. Apply your favorite bio-degreaser, agitate and then rinse/wipe it off.
    D. Apply a coat of your favorite chain lube (hopefully something with at least a little Teflon in
    it) and then be sure to let it dry or at least sit for a bit.
    E. Using a rag/shop towel remove any excess lubricant and "clean" off the side plates of
    the chain.

    - lastly, feel free to repeat steps C and/or D more than once. You may find a combination that
    works better in your area.

    Additionally, a lot of people that replace their chains often would actually skip step C and just
    go straight to step D. Also, if you feel the need to degrease the chain while it is off the bike,
    we would warn against letting a chain sit in solvent of any kind (kerosene, gasoline, SimpleGreen,
    bio-degreasers, etc.) for any length of time. And be sure to follow all dilution recommendations
    found on degreasing products."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then none
    of this makes any sense.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  11. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the
    chain when it
    > is on the bicycle but then none of this makes any sense.

    I guess it makes sense to tell people this stuff when you're in the business of selling them chains.

    Matt O.
     
  12. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Øyvind Røtvold writes:

    >> Stick with regular motor oil.

    > Gear oil, unless you'r chain gets very hot.

    Extracted from the FAQ item:

    Lubricating the chain with hot 90W gear lube works but it is also efficient fly paper, collecting
    plenty of hardpack between sprockets and on the outside of the chain. Motor oil is far better, but
    motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because they have volatile solvents that
    allow good penetration for their relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although
    clean, works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing surfaces once it has
    been displaced. This becomes apparent with any water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks.

    The article:

    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  13. Ken

    Ken Guest

    [email protected] (TBGibb) wrote in news:[email protected]
    m01.aol.com:
    >>If you're going to use any kind of lube, thoroughly clean off the factory stuff first.
    >
    > Why? What's wrong with the lube that comes on the chain?

    It's going to wear out sooner or later; maybe just a few weeks at the rate some of you folks ride.
    At that time, you need to thoroughly clean off the factory lube before applying anything else.
     
  14. [email protected] writes:

    [snip]
    > Lubricating the chain with hot 90W gear lube works but it is also efficient fly paper,
    [snip]

    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

    The manual for my motorcycle, a Honda with O-ring chain, actually suggest gear oil, and that's what
    put me on the idea of using this on my bike. It appears to work well on my road bike, haven't tried
    it on my MTB.

    I used to use some "Finish Line" teflon, dry stuff but that wouldn't last for one road trip so I put
    gear oil on the chain last autumn and haven't touched it since. I haven't been riding this winter
    but that must be something like 1000 dry kilomters on road without any chain maintainance.

    --
    __o | Øyvind Røtvold _`\(, | http://www.darkside.no/olr/index.html (_)/(_) | ... biciclare
    necesse est ...
     
  15. donald-<< Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube. Seems that I'm supposed
    to clean the chain of the oil that comes on it. Should that oil be removed in all cases, or just
    when you're going to use a wax-based lube?

    Yep, clean all that goop offa the shimano chains..it is more of a preservative than a lube. I
    use WD-40-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    [chain maintenance]

    > When using an oil, there is no need to remove original lubricant although for wax type lubricants,
    > the original greasy oil should be removed to convert to solid lubricant, although these have
    > problems of their own, such as not working after riding in rain.
    >
    > > There's this little gem on the SRAM site:
    > > http://www.sram.com/tech_info/faq_display.asp?faq_id=14
    >
    > I have trouble believing they didn't get that text from wreck.bike where this type of care has
    > been promoted by "don't touch that dirty thing" proponents.

    > SRAM:
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    > "Here are steps to cleaning your chain:
    >
    > A. We suggest leaving the chain on the bike.
    > B. Wipe off any excess dirt, water, etc.
    > C. Apply your favorite bio-degreaser, agitate and then rinse/wipe it off.

    [...]

    > I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then
    > none of this makes any sense.

    I'm not sure if it was what they had in mind, but you can use an on-bike chain cleaner like this
    one from MEC:

    http://tinyurl.com/avy2

    I have experimented with both this device and off-bike chain cleaning by the "drop it in a jar of
    Simple Green, shake well" method. Both seem to be reasonably effective at making a lot of crap come
    off the chain. I tend to use the on-bike chain cleaner, but they suggest thirty cranks of the pedals
    while in a middle gear, so the chain goes through the box a couple of times. Any speed advantage
    from not pulling the chain is slight (I'm currently using a Taya chain with a snap-on sideplate),
    though I imagine these things are a boon for people with "permalinked" chains like the Shimano ones.

    That said, I'll probably go to a snap-linked (SRAM style) chain next time.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  17. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    shimano chains are shipped with a hi tech synthetic squid oil developed over several years R+D. This
    SSO allows your chain a low friction breakin period of 30 miles, melding conformance into the entire
    drive grewpo, infusing a metal surface treatment, and increasing the rider's endorphin levels if not
    his sperm count. The surface treatment increases the chainrings life by 30-40% if the rider replaces
    the rear cluster with the new chain and if not decreases the endorphin level and further reduces the
    sperm count. while doing this(?), careful attention be payed to the alignment front and rear of the
    grewpo. one can sight the CRing and the cluster front to rear by eye, sighting over a chain ring
    side to side until the ring surface disappears and the eye is directly above it then look rear ward
    down the chain to see which way the chain bends. not supposed to bend too much.shake shake or one
    can use a string!!! tie on down tube stretch rearward. or one can ride and sight down plumbing the
    frame sose the tubes line up then glance to theright to check on the chain/deray cage/CR
    positions.low friction. 1-2 gears up at least. lastly. throw the wax on the cables and use oil on
    the chain. that's what it came with.
     
  18. bball

    bball Guest

    On 03 May 2003 12:32:09 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

    >donald-<< Just icked up a new DA chain as well as some White Lightning lube. Seems that I'm
    >supposed to clean the chain of the oil that comes on it. Should that oil be removed in all cases,
    >or just when you're going to use a wax-based lube?
    >
    >Yep, clean all that goop offa the shimano chains..it is more of a preservative than a lube. I
    >use WD-40-
    >
    >
    >Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    >(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

    -------------

    I see your comment here, Peter, on your use of WD40.

    I recently have been experimenting with 3-in-one oil, a product of the WD40 corporation, on a PC-48
    chain. I do not know the difference between lubricating qualities of WD-40 and 3-in-one oil, but
    that 3-in-one appears to have more lingering oil.

    Do you use WD-40 for chain lubrication or merely as a cleansing agent for the gunk (Jobst says a
    good lubricant) onna the Shiano chains.

    Otherwise, what do you personally use for a chain lubricant and how many miles, Peter, do you get
    before 1/16" chain stretch?

    Bruce Ball
     
  19. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Before somebody jumps in me knickers here...the gent
    wanted to know is
    > cleaning a shimano chain was a good idea BEFORE adding
    anothjer lube, I say
    > yes. You can use the shimano chain outta the box, but the
    stuff on it gets
    > really dirty really fast, resulting in the 'black chain'
    syndrome.

    This is true. However, you can clean the gunk off the *outside* of the chain by running it through a
    rag dampened with solvent. That way it won't attract dirt, but the cosmolene (or whatever it is)
    remains on the inside of the chain, where it's needed. This stuff is an excellent lubricant which
    lasts longer than just about anything.

    If I were a shop owner/mechanic, I'd probably do this to save time -- unless trying to set someone
    up for a certain cleaning/lubrication regimen, in which case I'd clean the chain and apply the
    preferred lube.

    Matt O.
     
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