De-oil new chain?



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S

Steven Scharf

Guest
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then
> none of this makes any sense.

Those chain-cleaning gizmos agitate the solvent. It does make sense that you should agitate the
solvent to get the grit out from inside the links, soaking alone won't do much.

I've used those devices for decades, and while they can be messy, they do clean the chain better
than soaking, and it's a lot faster than removing it from the bike.

Before I started using motorcycle chain lube, I would fill the chain cleaning tool with oil after I
cleaned the chain, so I could oil it without removing it.

It's interesting that some people believe that going through the trouble of removing their chain,
soaking it in solvent, then soaking it in some sort of lubricant, results in a cleaner, better
lubricated chain, than following a simpler procedure.
 
S

Steven Scharf

Guest
[email protected] wrote in message news:<EfAsa.10779

<snip>

> Motor oil is far better, but motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because they
> have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their relatively viscous lubricant.

That's a good FAQ

I'll never understand why people use anything but chain lubricant on their chains. Motorcycle chain
lube is great. It is foaming, it penetrates into the chain without soaking, it doesn't all fall off
in a few miles, and it's very cheap. You can buy it at any motorcycle parts store, and a can of it
will last for many years.

For soaking, a bottle of 30W motor oil or chainsaw oil is fine, but soaking is really unnecessary.

If you must clean your chain, use one of those chain cleaning gizmos and replace the kerosene or
other petroeum based solvent several times until it runs clean.

There is no need to remove your chain to maintain it, and there is no advantage to these exotic
lubricants. Some of the stories I see about chain maintenance remind me of people that do
recreational oil changes on their cars. It's like they have money burning a hole in their pocket.
 
X

x

Guest
RE/
>I've used those devices for decades, and while they can be messy, they do clean the chain better
>than soaking, and it's a lot faster than removing it from the bike.

What's your preferred solvent?

The gallon of degreaser I bought about 20 years ago is finally getting towards the end... Just
shopped automotive degreasers at Pep Boys and got scared just reading the labels.

Kerosene?
-----------------------
PeteCresswell
 
M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
"Steven Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> If you must clean your chain, use one of those chain
cleaning
> gizmos and replace the kerosene or other petroeum based
solvent
> several times until it runs clean.

Sure, as long as the solvent doesn't destroy the plastic. Been there, done that.

But the big problem with these units is that the fluid volume is too small. It takes too many fluid
changes to get the chain clean. There's also usually grit stuck to the gears that keeps
recontaminating the chain. In short, it takes forever to get a chain truly clean with these things,
so they're more trouble than they're worth.

> There is no need to remove your chain to maintain it, and
there
> is no advantage to these exotic lubricants. Some of the
stories
> I see about chain maintenance remind me of people that do recreational oil changes on their cars.
> It's like they
have money
> burning a hole in their pocket.

Well, if you ride on really dusty/muddy trails, you may need to clean your chain after every ride if
you want it to last more than a few rides. Cleaning chains is economical, wearing them out
prematurely is not. Now that we have Superlinks/Powerlinks, there's no excuse. It's easier to just
take the chain off and swish it around in some solvent than to mess with chain cleaners or other
PITA, ineffective techniques.

Matt O.
 
S

Steven M. Schar

Guest
I've always used kerosene.

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> RE/
> >I've used those devices for decades, and while they can be messy, they do clean the chain better
> >than soaking, and it's a lot faster than removing it from the bike.
>
> What's your preferred solvent?
>
> The gallon of degreaser I bought about 20 years ago is finally getting
towards
> the end... Just shopped automotive degreasers at Pep Boys and got scared
just
> reading the labels.
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Steven Scharf writes:

>> I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then
>> none of this makes any sense.

> Those chain-cleaning gizmos agitate the solvent. It does make sense that you should agitate the
> solvent to get the grit out from inside the links, soaking alone won't do much.

Oh, you mean paddle wheel brushes that keep grit in suspension. I see, but that isn't what sloshing
a chain around immersed in solvent in a wash tank does. The wash tank has a perforated floor below
which grit and other solids come to rest while the chain is flushed in 'clean' solvent. Unless the
chain is agitated while on its side (pins vertical), grit will not wash out of the links in
reasonable time.

> I've used those devices for decades, and while they can be messy, they do clean the chain better
> than soaking, and it's a lot faster than removing it from the bike.

I don't know what all the soaking is about. Neither chains nor grit are soluble while lubricant
washes out immediately. External grime should be brushed off anyway. I get the impression that most
of the contributors to this thread have never used a parts wash tank.

> Before I started using motorcycle chain lube, I would fill the chain cleaning tool with oil after
> I cleaned the chain, so I could oil it without removing it.

Ooh, that sounds like a bigger mess.

> It's interesting that some people believe that going through the trouble of removing their chain,
> soaking it in solvent, then soaking it in some sort of lubricant, results in a cleaner, better
> lubricated chain, than following a simpler procedure.

Ritual is a major part of most religions. Chain cleaning fits that description here on wreck.bike.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
G

Gary Young

Guest
[email protected] (Steven Scharf) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then
> > none of this makes any sense.
>
> Those chain-cleaning gizmos agitate the solvent. It does make sense that you should agitate the
> solvent to get the grit out from inside the links, soaking alone won't do much.
>
> I've used those devices for decades, and while they can be messy, they do clean the chain better
> than soaking, and it's a lot faster than removing it from the bike.
>
> Before I started using motorcycle chain lube, I would fill the chain cleaning tool with oil after
> I cleaned the chain, so I could oil it without removing it.
>
> It's interesting that some people believe that going through the trouble of removing their chain,
> soaking it in solvent, then soaking it in some sort of lubricant, results in a cleaner, better
> lubricated chain, than following a simpler procedure.

I "soak," by which I mean put the chain in a plastic bottle, pour in simple green, AGITATE by
shaking the bottle and then rinse with water, agitating again every time I fill the bottle with
water. I usually have to fill the bottle at least four or five times before the water drains out
clear. That's a lot more liquid than is contained in those devices -- how do you know your chain is
really clean?
 
S

Steven M. Schar

Guest
"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steven Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > If you must clean your chain, use one of those chain
> cleaning
> > gizmos and replace the kerosene or other petroeum based
> solvent
> > several times until it runs clean.
>
> Sure, as long as the solvent doesn't destroy the plastic. Been there, done that.

Never had that problem with kero

> But the big problem with these units is that the fluid volume is too small. It takes too many
> fluid changes to get the chain clean.

This is true. It usually takes 3-4 changes of the solvent.

> There's also usually grit stuck to the gears that keeps recontaminating the chain.

Never had that problem.

> In short, it takes forever to get a chain truly clean with these things, so they're more trouble
> than they're worth.

Less time than using a rivet extractor.

> > There is no need to remove your chain to maintain it, and
> there
> > is no advantage to these exotic lubricants. Some of the
> stories
> > I see about chain maintenance remind me of people that do recreational oil changes on their
> > cars. It's like they
> have money
> > burning a hole in their pocket.
>
> Well, if you ride on really dusty/muddy trails, you may need to clean your chain after every ride
> if you want it to last more than a few rides. Cleaning chains is economical, wearing them out
> prematurely is not. Now that we have Superlinks/Powerlinks, there's no excuse. It's easier to just
> take the chain off and swish it around in some solvent than to mess with chain cleaners or other
> PITA, ineffective techniques.

Yes, with those links, I can see your point. The only problem is that swishing it around does not
put the links into motion in the solvent. The advantage of the chain cleaing gizmos is that they get
the chain cleaner internally.
 
G

G.Daniels

Guest
ON COGNITIVE DISSONANCE! on dancer on blixen on eeeeeyow!! this 'problem' gets alotta thought. this
maybe a form of mental illness often found in mechanics when they stand poised at the brink of a new
movement and essentially for reasons we ought not delve into here come up with no ideas on going
forward. they are transfixed by an unkown future. pinned to the spot. a deer in the headlights of
reality. this is when we utter the immortal words:

DUH DUH DUH DUH. trying to get a grip on the next second. trying to avoid the ultmate (*&^^%%!!! i
want to type FU butt we have been warned! which is not the case here. Shim has thought of
everything. Eternal life. what's for lunch. which film to see.

the goop on the chain has one immediate purpose overlaying the profit motive and a necessity to look
good-no rust in storage or shipment. mission accom. then the people at shim gotta deal with the
rider/customer asking this question over and again inrelentless pursuit of the truth and oof course
general net approval of THE NEXT STEP-COGNITIVE DISSONAnCE!!!

which is, to add finish line CC down the middle getting a really nice mix of stabilized shim goop
with &^^&** synth oil if a roadie and if a dirtball??? good question. maybe it depends on what kinda
dirt you're in?? being a roadie i know absolutley nada except that dirt cubed are decisions to the
nth. your ball. the instructions given by various snakeoil wax purveyors operating from their
basements or mobile WMD factories is to clean the metal so the 'wax' they scrapped off the bottom of
the tank farm's empties is strangely true. consult a paint mixing or solvent chart prob available on
the net sheet I just looked up Duck West Indian Whistleing and found a comprehensive sighting list
of WIWD defecations from the year 1 onward. The solvent list yields some unthought or unexpected
combo's. and includes the NOT MIXING THE WAX WITH GREEN TEA concept. However, i submit that activity
generated by the purveyors vs shim need be taken with a grain of good dirt. i cleaned the chain and
antiqo suntour deray squeeky when i tried the expletive deleted wax for road use and had excellent
results with the deray whilst the chain devoured everything in its path. but clean off a new deore
for wax. NAW! wax over the shim grease keeping the shim grease clean and healthy whilst the mech
toothbrushes the outer wax coat off weekly and adds a new film via the cut spoke. ah,i get up in the
morning wishing for a new shim goop chain covered with a trail of cc for the next 30M. No expletive
deleted. when you get a chance to fool with an 20 year old and relatively unused deray from Suntour
checkout the ambilated beeswax the nipponeses stuck on the adjusters ect.
 
X

x

Guest
RE/
>I've always used kerosene.

Can you decant it back into the master container and let the glurge settle out, or does it have to
be dumped after use?
-----------------------
PeteCresswell
 
G

Gary Young

Guest
[email protected] wrote in message news:<1F%[email protected]>...
> Steven Scharf writes:
>
> >> I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then
> >> none of this makes any sense.
>
> > Those chain-cleaning gizmos agitate the solvent. It does make sense that you should agitate the
> > solvent to get the grit out from inside the links, soaking alone won't do much.
>
> Oh, you mean paddle wheel brushes that keep grit in suspension. I see, but that isn't what
> sloshing a chain around immersed in solvent in a wash tank does. The wash tank has a perforated
> floor below which grit and other solids come to rest while the chain is flushed in 'clean'
> solvent. Unless the chain is agitated while on its side (pins vertical), grit will not wash out of
> the links in reasonable time.
<snip>

Is sloshing the chain around in a plastic bottle (pins vertical) an adequate substitute for a parts
washer if the first solvent bath is followed by water rinses? I generally repeat the rinses until
the water drains out reasonably clear.
 
J

Jack Fortune

Guest
On Thu, 08 May 2003 01:45:42 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:
> RE/
> >I've always used kerosene.
>
> Can you decant it back into the master container and let the glurge settle out, or does it have to
> be dumped after use?
> -----------------------
> PeteCresswell

The easiest solution (ha! ha! - get it?) is to simply pour all of the kerosene back into the master
container and let the dirt settle out there - no need to dump anything...
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Gary Young <[email protected]> writes:

>>>> I don't understand how to agitate bio-degreaser on the chain when it is on the bicycle but then
>>>> none of this makes any sense.

>>> Those chain-cleaning gizmos agitate the solvent. It does make sense that you should agitate the
>>> solvent to get the grit out from inside the links, soaking alone won't do much.

>> Oh, you mean paddle wheel brushes that keep grit in suspension. I see, but that isn't what
>> sloshing a chain around immersed in solvent in a wash tank does. The wash tank has a perforated
>> floor below which grit and other solids come to rest while the chain is flushed in 'clean'
>> solvent. Unless the chain is agitated while on its side (pins vertical), grit will not wash out
>> of the links in reasonable time.

> Is sloshing the chain around in a plastic bottle (pins vertical) an adequate substitute for a
> parts washer if the first solvent bath is followed by water rinses? I generally repeat the rinses
> until the water drains out reasonably clear.

Sure, assuming the solvent dissolves oil and emulsifies in water. I think engine cleaning Gunk fits
that description.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
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